Commando Archive
Thread: Fanfest Report Response
Page 1 of 3
Cpl_Fisher
Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:30 pm
#1
QFE
StarNick wrote:
Just posted this in the Corr forums.
From a fanfest report snipped from the commando community regarding our profession -
"The issue of commandos was brought up when someone asked that heavy weapons actually be heavy and do real damage. The devs explained that commando weapons have utility to them that prohibits making them compete with rifles to be the most damaging ranged weapon. One utility of commando weapons is the area attack on some. They said it would not be a good idea to combine for instance "sniper attack", which is the most damaging ranged attack in the game, with an area attack from a weapon that is the highest damaging in the game."
The community is distraught at this...primarily for the following points:
# One Utility is AOE...and its really our only utility for supplementary damage dealing (aside from built in states). Ive said it a hundred times and Ill say it again, having commando based solely around AoE is a BAD IDEA..
# Contradictory this is. Isn't the Offense rating (5) suppoused to be for a single mastered profession? Meaning that the damage output for a master commando should be around the same as that of a Master Rifleman? Yet to even compete, plus to add our own flare to it..we'll need to be BOTH a Master Rifleman and Commando. And not only that, but our AoE is only as good as the attack we use. Common marksman specials with our AoE resemble to the level or less that of other profession's AoE specials. This has dug a hole that both Garvin and Lordseckmoth predicted we would run into with balance. Because they are comparable to other AoE specials (or intended, but how do we know? Originally we were suppoused to have limited AoE with set percentages), but not to damage dealing specials. Thus in a sense, Commando's are balanced in terms of AoE...but it resembles far more crowd control and no where near damage dealing UNLESS if we pick up another damage dealing profession, which contradicts our given role. Then what about a TKM/MC? This mentality leaves the profession with absolutely NO recourse for any player who doesn't want to go solely all range or is a crafter-commando hybrid. We aren't comparable until we go above and beyond the skillpoints for our profession, putting us back at square one pre-CU.
# On some [Heavy Weapons] doing AoE...is wrong. All our weapons are labelled with radii, and only 2 lower level Heavy Weapons are reported to not have AoE working. The Heavy Acid Rifle is the only craftable Heavy Weapon that is consitently no radius, and the Rocket Launcher is erratic to boot. If the HAR is intended for no radius, that leaves us with one craftable HW that is CL 30 and does not power up specials, leaving the profession to require another profession to life up to its role or more, considering its a low level weapon.
# Not a good idea? We're NOT asking to get a combination of a powerful AoE weapon and a powerful attack. What we ARE asking is a mix of the two so we won't be ALL AoE. Being all AoE, commandos don't live up to our 5 in offense in dungeons or singular boss mobs. Also to boot, we're more of a crowd control role in the game (thats really the only way commandos have been able to use their weapons in PvE, with AoE root/disarm/KD/etc)
# AoE is not a damage utility. Its supplementary to it, but it shouldn't (as it is) be substituted in as the whole role. The community wishes for some of our weapons as AoE where we won't have a sniper shot with a powerful AoE all built-in, and other weapons that will allow us to be like riflemen/swordsmen in dungeons/against boss mobs with no AoE but a powerful attack. This can be done with a different non-AoE powerup...maybe elemental, or some type of offensive ability, all will give commando both utility and comparability.
# Absolutely no mention of our "brokenness"? We do not have powerful AoE right now as it does 0 or 1 splash damage...our elemental never saw an increase (as with Jedi suppousedly, I remember a reply to one of my old threads near when the CU launched saying that elemental would be increased) and is still broken. Our DoTs and other "utilities" [innate states that resemble more crowd control still, not a damage role] are barely working or helpful.
Since its me job as correspondent to relay how the community feels and suggests to improve our condition, I have just this to say:
The Commando Community is displeased with this news, absolutely no updates on how we are so far from this state mentioned at fanfest, and with no bearing on where the profession is going whatsoever in a way that we could help the dev team. Our community works best when given direction and when its sharpened in its determination, this has been proven time after time in the past. However, in current state of affairs, many commandos are leaving the profession and feel that the dev team does not wish the profession to be here in the game. Please, Thunderheart, Tiggs, or other members of the Developer Team please cast this doubt aside and show the community that this is simply not true!
Message Edited by StarNick on 06-04-2005 04:00 PM
LecheHombre
Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:49 pm
#2
I understand the devs being worried about balancing Commando. It is really a lot like CH now... There has always been a push for CH to be a viable stand-alone combat profession, but if that happened, then CH plus any other combat profession would be doubly effective, so the devs have to walk a really thin line.
With the "weapons as specials" format of commando now, they have dug themselves into a similar hole. I do think it is interesting that their specific example was with rifleman sniper shot, because from my experience current Commando + crowd control presents more of a balance question than commando + damage dealer.
From my thinking on this subject, I feel like perhaps the best solution to the problem would be to ask the devs to disallow the use of ranged specials on the majority of our heavy weapons, and increasing their damage accordingly to compensate. This would allow single-mastery commandos to be as effective as other single-master combat profession toons, and would eliminate the stacking problems that the devs are worried about. The biggest hurdle would be balancing action cost drain on the heavy weapons, or making the specials-restriced heavy weapons a little slower.
I realize that in a way the whole point of the CU was to encourage combining multiple combat professions in interesting ways, and that restricting heavy weapons to no special attacks pretty much kicks that in the teeth. But, I feel like that might be just about the only way that we can be viable without having the potential to be overpowered with profession stacking.
With the "weapons as specials" format of commando now, they have dug themselves into a similar hole. I do think it is interesting that their specific example was with rifleman sniper shot, because from my experience current Commando + crowd control presents more of a balance question than commando + damage dealer.
From my thinking on this subject, I feel like perhaps the best solution to the problem would be to ask the devs to disallow the use of ranged specials on the majority of our heavy weapons, and increasing their damage accordingly to compensate. This would allow single-mastery commandos to be as effective as other single-master combat profession toons, and would eliminate the stacking problems that the devs are worried about. The biggest hurdle would be balancing action cost drain on the heavy weapons, or making the specials-restriced heavy weapons a little slower.
I realize that in a way the whole point of the CU was to encourage combining multiple combat professions in interesting ways, and that restricting heavy weapons to no special attacks pretty much kicks that in the teeth. But, I feel like that might be just about the only way that we can be viable without having the potential to be overpowered with profession stacking.
Electro5
Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:00 pm
#3
LecheHombre wrote:
From my thinking on this subject, I feel like perhaps the best solution to the problem would be to ask the devs to disallow the use of ranged specials on the majority of our heavy weapons, and increasing their damage accordingly to compensate. This would allow single-mastery commandos to be as effective as other single-master combat profession toons, and would eliminate the stacking problems that the devs are worried about. The biggest hurdle would be balancing action cost drain on the heavy weapons, or making the specials-restriced heavy weapons a little slower.
The problem with this, however, is that it gets rid of the whole new system of specials being useable by any weapon. Then those who have Commando as a duel profession get the short end of the stick, because not only does Commando not grant any new specials but then they cannot use the specials with the unique weapons they have either. So you basically have 2 single mastery professions, rather than a duel mastery.
Simply giving Commando's an option to change the "mode" of a weapon to either do area damage of a lesser degree or to do powerful single target damage (I know someone else posted this before, using your idea because its a great one) would be the most effective way to solve this whole issue. Or at the very least just make 2 different weapons using the same effect and graphic, one for area and one for single. Though that would be the less desired solution since you would have to carry twice as many weapons.
VitoGenovese
Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:39 pm
#4
You summed it up nicely Starnick! Professional, courteous, responses like this make me proud of our profession!
Darth-Dominus
Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:46 pm
#5
Give it to em.
I can't drop Commando but I'm starting to wish I could.
Message Edited by Darth-Dominus on 06-04-2005 10:47 PM
kaosdivine
Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:56 pm
#6
Commando forever! bottomline
And if they nerf us more, I will stay COMMANDO.
Keep up the good work, Starnick. I dare to say the community stands behind you.
Regards,
Kers
And if they nerf us more, I will stay COMMANDO.
Keep up the good work, Starnick. I dare to say the community stands behind you.
Regards,
Kers
Litushot
Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:54 pm
#7
/salute Starnick.
Perfectly written, and I hope all of you the best of luck since I'm leaving....I'll still be watching these boards hehe. Once a commando, always a commando for me 
Palad
Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:29 pm
#8
in other words, they are getting lazy, dont know how to fix commando, and have stamped it "working as intended" like they always do with horribly broken crap they are to lazy to fix.
StarNick
Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:50 am
#9
Just posted this in the Corr forums.
From a fanfest report snipped from the commando community regarding our profession -
"The issue of commandos was brought up when someone asked that heavy weapons actually be heavy and do real damage. The devs explained that commando weapons have utility to them that prohibits making them compete with rifles to be the most damaging ranged weapon. One utility of commando weapons is the area attack on some. They said it would not be a good idea to combine for instance "sniper attack", which is the most damaging ranged attack in the game, with an area attack from a weapon that is the highest damaging in the game."
The community is distraught at this...primarily for the following points:
# One Utility is AOE...and its really our only utility for supplementary damage dealing (aside from built in states). Ive said it a hundred times and Ill say it again, having commando based solely around AoE is a BAD IDEA..
# Contradictory this is. Isn't the Offense rating (5) suppoused to be for a single mastered profession? Meaning that the damage output for a master commando should be around the same as that of a Master Rifleman? Yet to even compete, plus to add our own flare to it..we'll need to be BOTH a Master Rifleman and Commando. And not only that, but our AoE is only as good as the attack we use. Common marksman specials with our AoE resemble to the level or less that of other profession's AoE specials. This has dug a hole that both Garvin and Lordseckmoth predicted we would run into with balance. Because they are comparable to other AoE specials (or intended, but how do we know? Originally we were suppoused to have limited AoE with set percentages), but not to damage dealing specials. Thus in a sense, Commando's are balanced in terms of AoE...but it resembles far more crowd control and no where near damage dealing UNLESS if we pick up another damage dealing profession, which contradicts our given role. Then what about a TKM/MC? This mentality leaves the profession with absolutely NO recourse for any player who doesn't want to go solely all range or is a crafter-commando hybrid. We aren't comparable until we go above and beyond the skillpoints for our profession, putting us back at square one pre-CU.
# On some [Heavy Weapons] doing AoE...is wrong. All our weapons are labelled with radii, and only 2 lower level Heavy Weapons are reported to not have AoE working. The Heavy Acid Rifle is the only craftable Heavy Weapon that is consitently no radius, and the Rocket Launcher is erratic to boot. If the HAR is intended for no radius, that leaves us with one craftable HW that is CL 30 and does not power up specials, leaving the profession to require another profession to life up to its role or more, considering its a low level weapon.
# Not a good idea? We're NOT asking to get a combination of a powerful AoE weapon and a powerful attack. What we ARE asking is a mix of the two so we won't be ALL AoE. Being all AoE, commandos don't live up to our 5 in offense in dungeons or singular boss mobs. Also to boot, we're more of a crowd control role in the game (thats really the only way commandos have been able to use their weapons in PvE, with AoE root/disarm/KD/etc)
# AoE is not a damage utility. Its supplementary to it, but it shouldn't (as it is) be substituted in as the whole role. The community wishes for some of our weapons as AoE where we won't have a sniper shot with a powerful AoE all built-in, and other weapons that will allow us to be like riflemen/swordsmen in dungeons/against boss mobs with no AoE but a powerful attack. This can be done with a different non-AoE powerup...maybe elemental, or some type of offensive ability, all will give commando both utility and comparability.
# Absolutely no mention of our "brokenness"? We do not have powerful AoE right now as it does 0 or 1 splash damage...our elemental never saw an increase (as with Jedi suppousedly, I remember a reply to one of my old threads near when the CU launched saying that elemental would be increased) and is still broken. Our DoTs and other "utilities" [innate states that resemble more crowd control still, not a damage role] are barely working or helpful.
Since its me job as correspondent to relay how the community feels and suggests to improve our condition, I have just this to say:
The Commando Community is displeased with this news, absolutely no updates on how we are so far from this state mentioned at fanfest, and with no bearing on where the profession is going whatsoever in a way that we could help the dev team. Our community works best when given direction and when its sharpened in its determination, this has been proven time after time in the past. However, in current state of affairs, many commandos are leaving the profession and feel that the dev team does not wish the profession to be here in the game. Please, Thunderheart, Tiggs, or other members of the Developer Team please cast this doubt aside and show the community that this is simply not true!
From a fanfest report snipped from the commando community regarding our profession -
"The issue of commandos was brought up when someone asked that heavy weapons actually be heavy and do real damage. The devs explained that commando weapons have utility to them that prohibits making them compete with rifles to be the most damaging ranged weapon. One utility of commando weapons is the area attack on some. They said it would not be a good idea to combine for instance "sniper attack", which is the most damaging ranged attack in the game, with an area attack from a weapon that is the highest damaging in the game."
The community is distraught at this...primarily for the following points:
# One Utility is AOE...and its really our only utility for supplementary damage dealing (aside from built in states). Ive said it a hundred times and Ill say it again, having commando based solely around AoE is a BAD IDEA..
# Contradictory this is. Isn't the Offense rating (5) suppoused to be for a single mastered profession? Meaning that the damage output for a master commando should be around the same as that of a Master Rifleman? Yet to even compete, plus to add our own flare to it..we'll need to be BOTH a Master Rifleman and Commando. And not only that, but our AoE is only as good as the attack we use. Common marksman specials with our AoE resemble to the level or less that of other profession's AoE specials. This has dug a hole that both Garvin and Lordseckmoth predicted we would run into with balance. Because they are comparable to other AoE specials (or intended, but how do we know? Originally we were suppoused to have limited AoE with set percentages), but not to damage dealing specials. Thus in a sense, Commando's are balanced in terms of AoE...but it resembles far more crowd control and no where near damage dealing UNLESS if we pick up another damage dealing profession, which contradicts our given role. Then what about a TKM/MC? This mentality leaves the profession with absolutely NO recourse for any player who doesn't want to go solely all range or is a crafter-commando hybrid. We aren't comparable until we go above and beyond the skillpoints for our profession, putting us back at square one pre-CU.
# On some [Heavy Weapons] doing AoE...is wrong. All our weapons are labelled with radii, and only 2 lower level Heavy Weapons are reported to not have AoE working. The Heavy Acid Rifle is the only craftable Heavy Weapon that is consitently no radius, and the Rocket Launcher is erratic to boot. If the HAR is intended for no radius, that leaves us with one craftable HW that is CL 30 and does not power up specials, leaving the profession to require another profession to life up to its role or more, considering its a low level weapon.
# Not a good idea? We're NOT asking to get a combination of a powerful AoE weapon and a powerful attack. What we ARE asking is a mix of the two so we won't be ALL AoE. Being all AoE, commandos don't live up to our 5 in offense in dungeons or singular boss mobs. Also to boot, we're more of a crowd control role in the game (thats really the only way commandos have been able to use their weapons in PvE, with AoE root/disarm/KD/etc)
# AoE is not a damage utility. Its supplementary to it, but it shouldn't (as it is) be substituted in as the whole role. The community wishes for some of our weapons as AoE where we won't have a sniper shot with a powerful AoE all built-in, and other weapons that will allow us to be like riflemen/swordsmen in dungeons/against boss mobs with no AoE but a powerful attack. This can be done with a different non-AoE powerup...maybe elemental, or some type of offensive ability, all will give commando both utility and comparability.
# Absolutely no mention of our "brokenness"? We do not have powerful AoE right now as it does 0 or 1 splash damage...our elemental never saw an increase (as with Jedi suppousedly, I remember a reply to one of my old threads near when the CU launched saying that elemental would be increased) and is still broken. Our DoTs and other "utilities" [innate states that resemble more crowd control still, not a damage role] are barely working or helpful.
Since its me job as correspondent to relay how the community feels and suggests to improve our condition, I have just this to say:
The Commando Community is displeased with this news, absolutely no updates on how we are so far from this state mentioned at fanfest, and with no bearing on where the profession is going whatsoever in a way that we could help the dev team. Our community works best when given direction and when its sharpened in its determination, this has been proven time after time in the past. However, in current state of affairs, many commandos are leaving the profession and feel that the dev team does not wish the profession to be here in the game. Please, Thunderheart, Tiggs, or other members of the Developer Team please cast this doubt aside and show the community that this is simply not true!
Message Edited by StarNick on 06-04-2005 04:00 PM
invaliduser
Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:59 am
#10
starnick...after reading this, all I can say is...
Im PROUD to have you as our correspondent.
/deepbow
Im PROUD to have you as our correspondent.
/deepbow
Message Edited by invaliduser on 06-04-2005 09:00 PM
TK-132
Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:23 am
#11
Palad wrote:
in other words, they are getting lazy, dont know how to fix commando, and have stamped it "working as intended" like they always do with horribly broken crap they are to lazy to fix.
Yep. I wish I had magic powers were could make all my great ideas happen in this game. Scary thing is it would be perfect then. Just kidding.
However I've already pretty much came up with a system of specials and weapon stats that let's us fufil our role. I should probably change the name, and get rid off the anit-SOE stuff remarks at first. Then they might read it. And go "Oh wow that would actually work".
I'm begining to suspect that this game is basically one of their gutter games. Meaning? There aren't enough people anymore to really bother making the game better or fixing what they do. Honestly which Dev's Braniac idea was it to make SBDs Level 180 on the Corvette. Yes even after balancing it, it's just as bad. Yea a group of 8 non Jedi can kill that.
Oh wait Jedi is the only damn profession worthwhile anymore.
Think about it. At this point. Look how many Jedi there are. And you know what you can bet each Jedi Player has played at least 5 to 6 months to get where they are. I think this is what they want. Just have the other professions as stepping stones to get Jedi. Cause you know if everyone goes Jedi there gonna spend a couple months doing so and that means $$$. So what if there's like a couple of broken profession. What do we care. They won't quit they'll take something else. Lets face it folks. Most of us don't want to quit. So we won't. They know that. They know were to loyal to ever give up so it must be good enough. And if we do we'll all become something else probably anyways, save the few of us who have sworn to quit as a Commando.
This is sad. I never imagined a game could be so horribly run as it is now. You don't talk to us. You don't seem interested in fixing us. Even if you guys turn your act around, I don't think I'll buy anything Sony again, if this is your so called service. Make it so it works just enough and if they buy it's good enough, is sad. Nope no PS3, no Sony TV, no Sony anything. And even if I do fall at will for those, I swear I'm not picking up another SOE game.
You guys have to get your act together. You represent your Company, and Star Wars, but you don't seem interested in making this game better. Just so it gets out the door right? Were not even working by your ideas with all the bugs in-game right now. Much less actual concepts. You could at least fix the bugs.
Please stop this. Please do something. But the silence and lack of consideration is un-bearable. Maybe I need to write to LA or George Lucas or something. Cause I honestly believe your not only ripping me off at this point, but making a mockery of all that is Star Wars.
Message Edited by TK-132 on 06-05-2005 01:33 AM
RankorCity
Sun Jun 05, 2005 2:59 am
#12
Excellent post, Stern...
Unfortunately, I feel that as has been the normal MO over the last 1.75 years...It will fall on deaf ears...
Who knows? Might come after the SL "revamp/love fest"...Which is after the Ranger "revamp/lovefest"...Which is after the Smuggler "revamp/love fest"....
I honestly believe they are done with Commando. What we have is what we going to have until the servers shut down.....
OLD0311
Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:30 am
#13
Good to see that you are not letting them walk all over us
Keep up the good work and I know you will pull us through.
Smeac
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