Commando Archive

(for those who dont know about this, Garvin and I were both Master TKA's and Master Commando and we began to debate where to put our remaining points. I went Smuggler Dirty Fighting3.Then I dropped it and began testingRifleman)

Conclusion A (Dirty Fighting): The Dirty Fighting Tree is excellent for PVE (aka not fighting other players, but just AI creatures). Feign Death, Low Blow, Panic shot are all very useful for crowd control and increase the commando's survival and his group's by a significant margin. However, for PvP (fighting other players), these abilities become counter productive because other players that do PvP will usually have high ranged defenses and, in pistoleer's case, high defense to knockdown. So even if your shots connect, the effects wont.

If you do wish to take Dirty Fighting, it is reccomended you take the pistoleer accuracy and speed trees as well as the dirty fighting tree, for if you dont your weapon will be inaccurate (for you only have master marksman accuracies, and those dont work vey well vs high level creatures and elite class players) and slow in firing (you get shot 2 or 3 times while you shoot back once, for less damage).

Dirty Fighting benefits: Feign Death (you cannot be DB'd by other players, creatures will cease to attack you). Panic Shot (10 second warcry effect from range) , Low Blow (ranged Knockdown).

ConclusionB (Rifles): Rifleman as a ranged component of the Commando is not effective unless the commando takes both the Sniping Tree and the Rifle Special Abilities tree. These give the accuracy and rifle speeds, they are mandatory to take, otherwise you get shot 3 times or more while you shoot back once.

If the Commando has the points avaliable and does take those 2 trees, it is also suggested the commando take the Concealment tree, so he can take full advantage of extra ranged defense and Take Cover bonuses, which may be very useful in any ranged battle.

The Rifleman has the advantage of having insane accuracy modifiers with rifle, which are further boosted by the AIM command (and rifleman also get a HUGE boost on TOP of using AIM because they have another modifier called Rifle Aiming.. so in short I can say the rifleman using aim receives about 200% accuracy than another class using /aim). These modifiers are more than enough to let them punch through anyone's ranged defense modifiers.

Rifleman benefits (per tree)

Sniping Tree: Practically triples your rifle accuracy, gives +rifle aiming which makes your /aim command a lot more effective. Mind Shot2 = mind bleed (hits for around 600 to 1000 damage), headshot3 (does about 400 more damage than headshot2, but at almost twice the mind cost, so most riflemen use Headshot2), Surprise Shot (surprise!this ability does nothing!), Sniper Shot (pvp only, deathblow from range).

Rifle Special Abilities: +40 melee defense, +40 rifle speed. every box gives +10, and just having +20 cuts your speed in half. by box4 your rifles will fire practically every second.

Concealment Tree: This tree provides +40 ranged defense, Conceal Shot (you can shoot creatures without getting aggro, its like an overcharge shot in damage, random HAM bar gets hit), +Cover (dramatically increases your chances of taking cover), Sneak (you can crawl without losing the effect of cover) and Crawl Speed (untested yet, may increase your crawling speed to be about equal your jogging speed, as ive seen many riflemen do).

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Once TC allows character copy, i'll be trying out pistoleer with master commando and carbineer with master commando. Perhaps around jan-feb.

Thanks for the update Tac, good analysis information here.

Looks like you clearly prefer the Master Commando/Rifleman combo for PvE. Would you say this setup is also the way to go for PvP, attacking/defending bases etc,?

Thanks tac.

This will be very helpul as I finish my template. My one big reason for using rifleman is for the 64m fight along witht he fact that I like getting 40 more in each defense. Theres also another +15 ranged defense if you taking anti-snping techniques in the 4th box, but I wont have the points for that.

My goal is Master commando, TKA 0-3-0-4, rifleman 4-4-0-4 err I think in that order.

Still havent dedicated myself to PvP other than a duel here and there. Dont know what side to join yet. I travel and hunt with Rebs sometimes but my weaponsmiths are Imp. Tough choice.

No, for PVE the Dirty Fighting and TKA is much, much better than rifleman.

For PVP the rifleman helps the commando if he cant get into a close combat (aka theres other commandos with them or the enemy players are kiting you).

Techno: take meditation in TKA to 4. its just *too* useful. no more dying to poisons and diseases, no more having to rtb or beg a medic/doctor, and the ability to give yourself 25% to 50% more ham with self- buffs.. and of course, force of will, good chance to stand up from incap and torch the suckers that ran up to db you. *evil grin*.

I would also like to add my 2 cents from my own tests regarding PvE...something I pretty much only play...

AI's don't kite us...and until they do, we don't have to worry about that weakness...so a ranged KD like LowBlow, while nice to have, is not a necessity...And Feign Death, at least in my mind, works great if you are fighting just a few opponents at a time...fire a dot then fake your death and hope it works...then wait the dot out...a sound strategy, but not good for those like me that hate to wait...lol

Master Commando & Master TKA basically makes you a tank...you have the ability to pull a target, or a group of targets by one quick ranged shot (no specials, just a normal shot)...The NPC will charge you...this gives you plenty of time to hit them with a FlameSingle2 as they get within 16m or FlameCone2 if it's a group coming towards you....then as they get closer, go unarmed and take them down...if they are bigger critters, occasionally switch back to the FT to apply fresh DOTs, then back to unarmed...No worries..works great...

For the biggest game, get buff'd first...

Now, as Tac put it...where to spend the rest of your skill points...there are several great ways to go...but in the long run, I took what some may call a weak way out...I took Novice Medic...my reason? I like to run into large mobs of NPC's or take on the really big game...with my Master Combo my only PvE weakness that keeps coming to light is that I can't heal DURING battle...occasionally (albeit rarely) those big shots get in on me (especailly thanks to the armor hole bug still being around)...My mind is protected well with a very nice helmet...and TKA moves are an Action/Health drainer...so nice stim B's are a life saver...pop a couple of those and within seconds, my HAM is completely full (I also have my stats set so that my Mind Heals very fast)...So far I have been able to completely clear an Imperial Outpost on my own...take down a large group of Singing Mountain Clan...and even a few Nightsisters (was buff'd for that)...all without one ranged special...

Do I think ranged specials aren't needed by our profession? NO!!! We need them...it will round out our character and help us play PvP...but if you just look at PvE, it's nice to have, but there are better things to spend your points on...

Just my view...

I find warningshot and suppression fire work just as well with my flamethrower as they do with my rifle. Once I get flurry shot, I'll have a jury-rigged ranged knockdown. Good for PvP, PvE, and PvNPC

flurry shot is rifles only, wont work with flamethrower. the other 2 you mentioned are ranged support in marksman, you can use them with any ranged weapon.

Update 12/26/03

- on 12/25/03, mid-afternoon, chased down a master doctor/pistoleer through the hilly dathomir terrain. Started by spotting him at 110m in his speeder bike, burstrun andgot inside 64m (he was traveling perpendicular to me) and shot the speeder bikefrom under him with an aimed flamethrower fireball from 60m, fired a few fireballs and some launcher pistol shotsat his bike (since the flamer has pooraccuracy at range compared to the launcher pistol), then switched to rifle, targetted docandtried to close in as i firedmy E11rifle.

The doc began to jog away from me, firing his own weapon. my burst run wore off at around 35m from him. Since I had no terrain negotiation and apparently he had some, the hilly terrain we were in allowed him to gain some distance, so we ended up shooting at 50m. This chase took arounda minute, all the while the doc had to heal himself back to full three times due to my hits and to his own spamming of pistoleer specials (most of which missed).

seeing that i wasnt going to catch up and he kept healing himself (i was going for the quick close-in and torch him), I hit him with mindshot2 and mindshot1 using /aim, which let him get to 60m..about 15 seconds later the bleeds began to hit him and he had to stop to apply the bleed cure on himself, Iclosed in to 50m again./aim/headshot2 , /aim /headshot2, /aim /headshot2 and I ended up with an impmaster doctor pushing up daisies.

After the DB, he /tell 'd me and we talked a bit, he was a good sport and all. I learned that my initial shot with the flamer and the launcher pistol practically panicked him, since he was all calm and minding his bussinesson his bike when all the sudden everything blew up around him. he didnt even target me until hewas a gooddistance from his wrecked speederbike, whichstill had explosions hitting it (from the launcher pistol at that point). after that he said he had begun to try and get me with stopping shot for a goodamount of time but it wasnt working for some reason (112 ranged defenses and he was shooting a pistol from 45m+ and he wasrunning),and that he somehowkept getting hit a lot (my E11 has +70 accuracy at 50m, I guess this was the reason my normal shots hit him so constantly.. plus rifleman accuracy mods). he said that he was expecting to keep healing himself until his stopping shot got me (apparently this is the way most doc+combat classtemplates work),and that hethought the bleeds on him were health bleeds (pistoleers.. go figure. they must think every bleed is health shot ) so he paid no attention to them until the bleed ticked and he had todo something about it but all he got in return was his mind bar shot to 0.

So with this fight I guess that thisTKA 4.0.0.4, Rifleman3.4.0.4 (currently 3.1.0.3), master commando templatereally provide the commando withthe ideal combat combo.Effective short and long range firepower, high ranged and melee defenses (will have +134 ranged and melee defenses when done), andthe ability to operate 'in the field' for extended periods of time thanks to tkasi meditation which power boosts, cures poison and diseases and heals wounds and can even raise you from incap. in emergencies.

Sounds like it weorked fine and all but sounds like your rifle did all the work.

I'll keep it in mind but I kinda am hoping to do most of my fighting as a commando. I just want to steal some defenses from the other classes.

My question is, did you try flurry shot/ supression fire combo on him? Thats what Im looking for. Not for the extra damage from KD but for the ground gaining ability. Is there a class that wouldnt really give me any damage capabilities but slow em down?

I guess I keep hoping for a ranged attak for us commandos. *sigh*

no, but i did test that earlier. people heal themselves on-the-run. so this kneeling animation thing dont work yet.

This is good guys, thanks for taking the time to do this. I just want to point out something. This is coming purely from PVE since I cant stand PVP. Most yellow mobs, even mobs with some red cons thrown in, I can solo using just commando and medic 4 3 0 0 skills. On dath I run bola missions for 9K. These critters are social, I can stand in the middle of 3 or 4 of these big boys and flame single 2 and flame cone 2 while healing myself over and over. I'm not wearing any armor or buffed in anyway.

I've found that this works for almost any mob that doesnt have more than 10K HAM. I have my stats set to 1000 health 400 on the healt substats, 1100 action, 400 on action substats and 760 mind 400 and 600ish, on substats. This gives me a fairly good mind regen for the healings.

The reason I bring this up, isn't to debunk your fella's hard work, its to let the new guys know you don't have to grind up TKA, which can be kinda frustrating for the 125K to just get novice. But if your not a PVPer like me, just some good Stim B's and good healing speed will let you solo quit a few "higher" level mobs and make some good cash. Heck I even run imp missions on Lok for 9K and get good faction points without too much trouble. The only downside to having such low substats, I think, is that I take substat wounds pretty easy.

true seminole, but I would still recommend tka 4.0.0.4 (or if points allowing, master tka or at least 4.1.1.4) over medic for pve.

Case in point, I can solo an entire nest of bull/ancient/enraged rancors without healing once. and i dontgo below80% of myHAM (unless armor hole hit, which are rare if you wear full armor, including belt, bandolier and backpack). The TKA defenses and master commando defenses stack so good the rancors will hit you once almost every 15 to 20 swings. And they die before that. Teras Kasi Power Boost allows you to put all your secondaries to minimum and mind to max with the rest spent 50-50 on health and action and you can end up with (in my case, human) health and action at 1300 and mind at 1500. Thats a lot.

Wear 50% kineticubese or better (armor cost usually $50k).

No need to heal during combat since you rarely get hit, even when you have 4 of the brutes on you at once, you kill them very fast with the flamethrower (just remember to hit them once with the lp so you get looting rights), you make 40k per mission... and once its over, any wounds of any kinds will heal themselves.. any disease or poisons will not leave you running around fatally injured looking for a doctor. Just 10 seconds of meditate and its gone. 20 secs and you can heal yourself to brand-new condition.

in comparison, novice medic skill will have you healing yourself a lot (stims cost money, cost mind to use in combat) and gives you no defenses for those 15 points spent.

The grind to tka is only bad to get novice..after that its a breeze.

Thank you for the reply tac. Do you know after all the hoopla of defense mods stacking, if doing TKA along with Commando will still provide the same benefit you have seen?

Also as a couterpoint, you brought up the issue of stims and cost, on Starsider you can buy a crate of 340 stim b's with 300+ base for around 7K. Thats less than one mission, for almost a weeks worth of stims.

You do bring up a very good point about being able to heal yourself with meditate and for that alone I will probably go up the TKA trees for this ability. You mentioned TKA 4 1 1 4, what do the last 3 boxes of TKA give that are beneficial, sorry Im not at my home comp so I cant look for myself??

Thanks again