Commando Archive
Thread: Garvin re: Armor/Weapon Delay
Raptor2k1 wrote:
Realism and prevention of the afformentioned jedi exploit is about all I can think of. I can deal with the armor delay myself, as it makes reasonable logical sense.
The weapon-switch delay is downright annoying though when it should theoretically take half a second to sling a carbine across your back and pull out a hand-gun.
Heh,
If we were going for realism they would accompany the delay with emotes that show you putting the armor on.
Personally, I will choose simplicity any day. I don't play the game for realism, I play the game for fun. Any delays in the game that do not have a purpose are bad, because they interfere with an otherwise continuous gaming experience.
If the devs are going to make me stand around for 30 seconds doing nothing (NOTE: 30 seconds is roughly 1% of my typical 2 hour play time) every night every time I want to put my armor on there better be a DAMN good reason for it.
Raptor2k1 wrote:
The weapon-switch delay is downright annoying though when it should theoretically take half a second to sling a carbine across your back and pull out a hand-gun.
Don't know how the delay is affecting you, but when i did some tests last night the delay is after the switch, and is only a second at most. It is there to stop the switching weapons to land DOTs, status effects etc. if you want to land status effects use your carbine, if you want to land DOTs equip your DOT weapon... Don't expect to be able to roll through your entire weapon compliment landing different status effects etc before switching to one to do damage, that happening is part of what has unbalanced combat.
Daker-Naritus wrote:
If we were going for realism they would accompany the delay with emotes that show you putting the armor on.
Remember their graphics / art people are very busy right now, these new animations were clearly not possible in the available timescale
Personally, I will choose simplicity any day. I don't play the game for realism, I play the game for fun. Any delays in the game that do not have a purpose are bad, because they interfere with an otherwise continuous gaming experience.
The delays have a purpose, for weapons see above, for armour see below.
If the devs are going to make me stand around for 30 seconds doing nothing (NOTE: 30 seconds is roughly 1% of my typical 2 hour play time) every night every time I want to put my armor on there better be a DAMN good reason for it.
There is a clear reason for this, apart from the fact it is unrealsistic to be able to don your armour in a split second it is to stop players having the ability to switch armour during combat to gain better resistances to their opponents weapons. Remember this is part of the combat balance come early, and after the CB all armour types will have uses, this will make you have to compromise on which armour you choose to wear rather than flipping to the most optimal for any situation.
Oh and you don't have to stand around doing nothing, put it on while traveling to your mission objective, while getting a mission, while at a shuttleport, while gettting a mind buff etc. I didn't feel any affect of the change, after getting my first missions i hopped on my speeder headed to the waypoint and on route equiped my armour.
Here is the bottom line. The armor delay, I am not that upset with. The weapon delay, completely unacceptable. they just took out the Commando in a MCom/TKM template. We cannot afford to switch weapons, and we cant afford to keep our FT out. So what does that make us? Welcome to the TKM club everyone!
lisasdarren wrote:
Don't know how the delay is affecting you, but when i did some tests last night the delay is after the switch, and is only a second at most. It is there to stop the switching weapons to land DOTs, status effects etc. if you want to land status effects use your carbine, if you want to land DOTs equip your DOT weapon... Don't expect to be able to roll through your entire weapon compliment landing different status effects etc before switching to one to do damage, that happening is part of what has unbalanced combat.
I really dont think you understand what people are saying here. We dont land a thousand status effects. Most of us land 1 DOT and then switch to the VKs. Is this so that we can exploit the system? Not at all. We do this because if we dont we die. Period. With our FT out we have no chance against anything melee. A simple switch from FT to VK is all we do.
Remember their graphics / art people are very busy right now, these new animations were clearly not possible in the available timescale
Moot point it really doesnt matter.
The delays have a purpose, for weapons see above, for armour see below.
There is a clear reason for this, apart from the fact it is unrealsistic to be able to don your armour in a split second it is to stop players having the ability to switch armour during combat to gain better resistances to their opponents weapons. Remember this is part of the combat balance come early, and after the CB all armour types will have uses, this will make you have to compromise on which armour you choose to wear rather than flipping to the most optimal for any situation.
I disagree entirely. 90% of the people in the game wear composite. There really is no reason not to. It has the best base defense and little vulns. (I have a 78% base and 80% specials in my house) No one is switching for the most "optimal" armor. True armors are getting turned down in the CB, but I still think that this is a terrible change at this time. The point is a game is supposed to be fun. How many times have you cursed the shuttleport from taking off just as you are getting there? No one wants to stand around for no reason than to just put your armor on. This was a fix because of Jedi. Not because of other combat profs. They should have implemented a proper fix where jedi either cant wear armor (hence why they have the robes now), or give them the delay. It was their exploit, not any of the other 32 profs.
Oh and you don't have to stand around doing nothing, put it on while traveling to your mission objective, while getting a mission, while at a shuttleport, while gettting a mind buff etc. I didn't feel any affect of the change, after getting my first missions i hopped on my speeder headed to the waypoint and on route equiped my armour.
Here is another question. What about the people that dont get buffed when they go out to hunt? They take their armor off to heal up and then put it back on to fight again. I know many players that do this.
Ster wrote:
Here is the bottom line. The armor delay, I am not that upset with. The weapon delay, completely unacceptable. they just took out the Commando in a MCom/TKM template. We cannot afford to switch weapons, and we cant afford to keep our FT out. So what does that make us? Welcome to the TKM club everyone!
Haveyou considered that is could well be this sort of behaviour that got this change into the combat balance (and leaked early) in the first place?
You can fight as a TKA or fight as a commando, I don't think the intent was ever that you could switch combat styles every few seconds to get the advantages of them both or they would never have added the disadvantages would they.
Stop complaining that your method of bending the rules has been removed.
Oh and before anyone says it, i know that we can be outdamaged by many other professions in terms of DPS and they can have better defences etc, but "wait for the combat balance" where things should improve. (If they don't then feel free to complain that commando isn't good enough)
Daker-Naritus wrote:
As it is now live, I have finally had the chance to test this today...
My conclusion is that the delay is NOT working as you previously described it, and certainly not like that BH spaz that was stalking me all over the boards was describing it.
The way the delay is working for me is that is it 5 seconds per piece, and those 5 second intervals STACK (i.e. do not run simultaneously). Using my clicky, armor change macro, it is now taking me 30-35 seconds to put on my set of armor, even though I equip all 9 pieces of armor simultaneously.
I have also been throughly frustrated tonight with the delay on changing guns, as it is throughly making it impossible for me to stack many status/bleed effects that I have always used (the effectsrun out before I can switch weapons).
I think this change is REALLY bad for 2 reasons:
(1) It was implemented to nerf jedi armor switching, who have gotten robes that the Devs have said "are intended to REPLACE armor." It makes more sense to take conventional armor away from jedi than to nerf 33 other classes.
There is no reason for me to stand around for 35 seconds waiting on my armor.
(2) Devs have said that they are ALREADY substantially nerfing specials in the next patch in the combat balance. This delay on weapons serves as a DOUBLE WHAMMY because we will be fighting both with the rush of switching weapons (making some specials worthless because of their short effects) AND the increased/"balanced" special costs. There is no reason to double nerf anything.
Once again, I am submitting that this is a STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID change that has ABSOLUTELY no positive change or function in the game, and should be IMMEDIATELY taken out.
It makes the game less aesthetically pleasing (watching people snap on clothes piece by piece is UGLY), it sucks, it is annoying, and it is an unnecessary burden on combat.
I have patiently waited for this to go live. Now it is live, and it still sucks ass in every way, shape, and form.
Can you PLEASE band up with the other combat correspondants and do something about this? The devs need to be called on their unnecessary, stupid nerf, and need to realize that it is exactly that.
The delay was working as I reported it over a week ago when I tested it...but when I retested it 3 days before publish it had been changed (I even had a few other's report that things had changed)...trust me, when I saw that it had been changed, I went into rant mode over int he Correspondent forum...I was told I was being "overly-dramatic" as to it's impact on the Commando profession regarding the weapon delay...
The problem is, many of the Combat Correspondents who's professions focus on one type of weapon have no problem with the delay...They don't have a problem keeping the same weapon equiped all the while, or dealing with a 5 second change...it's only the professions who have different types of weapons, or utilize dabbling heavily (us), that has a problem...Bounty Hunter and Commandos are especially hit hard by this change...
As for stacking bleeds...that was actually one of the reasons the devs and others suggested for the weapon delay...they seem to believe that bleeds of different professions are unfair to "speed" stack...What they didn't consider is that with our profession as "borked" as it is, we are left with little other strategy....we need dabbled specials/weapons to "enhance" our own specials/weapons so that we can attempt to compete...Many have suggested that we try it for awhile (bad idea in my book) and see how it works for us when the CB finally comes around...my response to that is "Then lay it on us with the CB...not 2 months prior...don't break things further knowing that we have to wait a long time for any sort of fix"
What the weapon delay does to our profession is make our profession less desirable then before when compared to other higher DPS professions...more people will stick with their TKA or Rifleman skills and use their Commando weapons/skills less...this inturn will see more folks leave our profession as they'll realize just how little the Commando profession does for them and how much more they can do with other professions...it's a lot of skill points to spend with too little in return.
The Armor delay is hard to argue...Unless we can come up with a convincing reason for it being bad, the Devs don't seem to want to budge on this one...They don't see "inconvienence" or "annoying" as a good arguement for them to put more effort into fixing this...
Message Edited by garvin on 06-30-2004 09:07 AM
lisasdarren wrote:
You can fight as a TKA or fight as a commando, I don't think the intent was ever that you could switch combat styles every few seconds to get the advantages of them both or they would never have added the disadvantages would they.
Stop complaining that your method of bending the rules has been removed.
Your kidding right? Fine then, we will make sure that no melee defenses stack, that no ranged or state defenses stack accross professions. Also I would like to implement a change in the stim healing template with people that have novice medic. It has been said that they can heal themselves with no delay between switching between their gun and their stimpack. That makes them broken and is an exploit. We have also put in the "cookie cutter"code that forces you to only be able to master one elite proffession. There is no reason to have two since it makes it easier for you to kill things and stay alive. You cant have it both ways. You are attempting to turn a skill point system into a class system and that defeats the purpose.
I am not trying to attack you or anything, just laying out the facts. 95% of the people in this game use these methods in combat not as an exploit, but as an "as designed" feature.