Commando Archive
Thread: Garvin re: Armor/Weapon Delay
lisasdarren wrote:
Raptor2k1 wrote:
The weapon-switch delay is downright annoying though when it should theoretically take half a second to sling a carbine across your back and pull out a hand-gun.
Don't know how the delay is affecting you, but when i did some tests last night the delay is after the switch, and is only a second at most. It is there to stop the switching weapons to land DOTs, status effects etc. if you want to land status effects use your carbine, if you want to land DOTs equip your DOT weapon... Don't expect to be able to roll through your entire weapon compliment landing different status effects etc before switching to one to do damage, that happening is part of what has unbalanced combat.
Trax that is CRAZY. They reason developers designed the game like it is (with 18 boxes of differing skills for each class, over 33 classes, and 250 skill points) is so that people CAN mix and match skills.
It is the strength of the skills that is unbalancing, not the use of differing skills together.
Hell look at the Jedi rebalance...Devs implemented a system whereby there are LOTS of jedi skills that FAR exceed the number of skill points a jedi has to use on them. The developers have expressly stated that the reason for the new system is that they want jedi to mix and match skills together to promote diversity and customization of characters.
Your implication in several of your posts in this thread that using skills from several different classes is "cheating" is clueless. I'm sorry to be mean, but it just is.
The game is obviously designed for people to use various skills, and the devs have expressly stated exactly that. As such, it is not unbalancing for the developers to allow characters to mix skills and make different templates, but it IS unbalancing (in a very bad way) for developers to limit use of diverse skills.
If you don't like diversification, don't diversify your character...that's your choice.
If you don't like others using diversification, you are playing the wrong game. I would suggest EQ, DOAC, or any of the other games that use the 10,000 year old single class system.
This game was designed for diversificaton, and the developers should not be hindering that.
Let me give you another example that kills you logic as well. I have been hunting pikits a lot lately, and within a single lair of pikits there are various types. Some are Vulnerable to Acid but Highly Resistant to Energy. Others are Vulnerable toEnergy but Highly Resistant to Acid.
Why is it unbalancing for a straight, plain pistoleer to be able to change damage types?
Daker-Naritus wrote:
If we were going for realism they would accompany the delay with emotes that show you putting the armor on.
Remember their graphics / art people are very busy right now, these new animations were clearly not possible in the available timescale
I was being sarcastic. You can't be serious about wanting animations for putting on armor. That is a worthless delay in the game.
Personally, I will choose simplicity any day. I don't play the game for realism, I play the game for fun. Any delays in the game that do not have a purpose are bad, because they interfere with an otherwise continuous gaming experience.
The delays have [no] purpose, for weapons see above, for armour see below.
If the devs are going to make me stand around for 30 seconds doing nothing (NOTE: 30 seconds is roughly 1% of my typical 2 hour play time) every night every time I want to put my armor on there better be a DAMN good reason for it.
There is a clear reason for this, apart from the fact it is unrealsistic to be able to don your armour in a split second
It's a GAME!!!!!!!!! In reality there are no starships, droids, or laser guns. In reality, you can't call a Fambaa out of a datapad. In reality you can't store a speeder in your pocket. In reality, you do not travel from planet to planet instantaneously. In reality, a person cannot carry 50 crates of goods on their back in a backpack. In reality, full days do not last less than one gaming hour.
There is NO reason to add so much "reality" to the game that it makes it a pain in the ass to play. Delays are a pain in the ass, and should not be implemented in any way, shape, or form unless there is a REAL reason for it (Note: Making donning more clothes realistic is NOT a good reason).
it is to stop players having the ability to switch armour during combat to gain better resistances to their opponents weapons. Remember this is part of the combat balance come early, and after the CB all armour types will have uses, this will make you have to compromise on which armour you choose to wear rather than flipping to the most optimal for any situation.
This too is really silly. You are saying that players developers are giving players different types of armor that are good in different situations, BUT that players should not be able to change their armor to better suit their situation.
WHAT?!?!?! What the hell is the point of armor that is good at different things, if you cant change armor to best suit your situation?
Why not just nerf all armor to have 15% resistances to everything and leave it at that?In fact lets get rid of all the armor types, and have only one type of armor that comes in only grey. If you are going to be unimaginative, lets go all out.
Oh and you don't have to stand around doing nothing, put it on while traveling to your mission objective, while getting a mission, while at a shuttleport, while gettting a mind buff etc. I didn't feel any affect of the change, after getting my first missions i hopped on my speeder headed to the waypoint and on route equiped my armour.
Sometimes, you can equip your armor while you are doing something else. However, that requires (1) actual time to do so, and (2) me having to sit there and at least 30 seconds ahead of time saying "hey I need to put my armor on 30 seconds in advance." Also there are MANY situations where you DO have to wait 30 seconds.
I will give you 2 examples:
(1) Last night I ran a mission that was 200m away from my location. My armor was not equipped by the time I got there, and I ended up having to wait for it to finish.
(2) Last night I got incapped, and backed away from the mob to heal up. As you well know, armor kills your regeneration, so I removed my armor to help out. After I finished, I started back into the fray. BUT WAIT, I need to put my armor back on...*stands for 35 seconds waiting on nothing.*
The point is that this change serves no purpose other than the pure and unadulterated annoyance of players. It is not a fun change to the game, and it doesn't fix jack. It sucks.
"Reality" is no justification for annoying the piss out of me in the fantasy world I use to escape reality.
Message Edited by Daker-Naritus on 06-30-2004 11:59 AM
garvin wrote:
The delay was working as I reported it over a week ago when I tested it...but when I retested it 3 days before publish it had been changed (I even had a few other's report that things had changed)...trust me, when I saw that it had been changed, I went into rant mode over int he Correspondent forum...I was told I was being "overly-dramatic" as to it's impact on the Commando profession regarding the weapon delay...
The problem is, many of the Combat Correspondents who's professions focus on one type of weapon have no problem with the delay...They don't have a problem keeping the same weapon equiped all the while, or dealing with a 5 second change...it's only the professions who have different types of weapons, or utilize dabbling heavily (us), that has a problem...Bounty Hunter and Commandos are especially hit hard by this change...
The real problem is: Why is the hell is this change justified AT ALL? Why are they wasting their time (and ours with the delay) on implementing stupid random changes that only serve to annoy players.
Also it's not just weapon types, it is DAMAGE types that this really effects. One of these days our HAR might be fixed.
If a commando were to be fighting a heat vulnerable mob and get a heat resistant mob add (as often happens), the commando is going to suffer a delay.
If I am fighting a lair of animals that all have different resistances (as is the case with over 90% of mobs) I am going to have to screw with the weapon delay every single time I change mobs (and damage types).
It is just a silly, unjustified change.
Try this:
Tomorrow, the developers could change the game to make everyone's hair bright blue. Would it break the game? No. Would it make the game unplayable? No. Would it annoy the piss out of everyone and effect their enjoyment of the game? Hell yes. That is exactly what this change is.
Unless there is a REALLY good reasonFOR a change like this, there is NO reason for the developers to annoy us, and it never should be inplemented in the first place. If I annoy a customer too much, they fire me. If the devs annoy me too much, I switch to WoW the day it comes out.
The burden is NOT on us to show why something that is BRAND NEW should be changed back. The burden is on the DEVELOPERS to actually THINK about shanges before they make them, and not make frivilous changes that annoy people without a REALLY good reason.
As for stacking bleeds...that was actually one of the reasons the devs and others suggested for the weapon delay...they seem to believe that bleeds of different professions are unfair to "speed" stack...
I wasn't talking about stacking bleeds, I was talking about stacking one bleed with other status effects, and stacking other status effects.
This shows how really clueless the devs really are...
Dev 1: "Hey we need to fix stacking bleeds."
Dev 2: "Ok, but we can't just make it so that bleeds don't stack...that make too much sense. Instead let's nerf the living hell out ofALL status effects by putting a huge delay on weapon switches."
There is no reason to overnerf anything just to fix a minor problem. Honestly, I didn't even know you could stack bleeds anymore....I thought that was already nerfed. No player I know has every used that tactic, to my knowledge.
The developers are using a nuclear bomb to kill an ant, and we are all sitting in the nuclear fallout.
The Armor delay is hard to argue...Unless we can come up with a convincing reason for it being bad, the Devs don't seem to want to budge on this one...They don't see "inconvienence" or "annoying" as a good arguement for them to put more effort into fixing this...
I have a convincing reason:
The developers are using a nuclear bomb to kill an ant, and we are all sitting in the nuclear fallout.
There is no reason to annoy and burden 33 classes with a delay just for the sake of jedi.
The proper question developers SHOULD be asking is:
"Why should we burden 33 classes with an armor delay, instead of simple taking away jedi's ability to wear conventional armor?"
The only reason they need is that their "solution" is an over inclusive, stupid solution that is annoying the piss out of their subscribers, and they really don't have any logical justification for it.
The only reason they need is that the main topic of conversation in my guild chat window all night long was how pissed people were getting that it was taking so damn long to equip armor.
The only reason they need is the old saying: "Don't bite the hand that feeds you." I pay their salaries, and I command at LEAST enough respect for them to consider my game enjoyment when making decisions.
If my desires for what I want out of my gaming expereince aren't justification enough for them, then I can't see any justification for them to continue being my gaming company...
shinton wrote:
Fine I would rather have a 1 DOT limit per enemy, per Player,than this delay.
EXACTLY!
Nuclear Weapon vs. Ant.
Daker-Naritus wrote:
Trax that is CRAZY. They reason developers designed the game like it is (with 18 boxes of differing skills for each class, over 33 classes, and 250 skill points) is so that people CAN mix and match skills.
Yes its so we can mix and match, stack defences, have the possibility of being a medic and a fighter etc. that is not what i mean... I doubt very much they designed it so you could switch to carbine, land status effect, switch to FT land fire DOT, switch to VK so you don't get hurt. If that was the case then why don't TKA defences work while holdign your FT, if you have them? As for the point that you can heal instantly, maybe but there is a delay after healing before you can fight again and always has been.
Your implication in several of your posts in this thread that using skills from several different classes is "cheating" is clueless. I'm sorry to be mean, but it just is.
I am not saying mixing skills is "cheating" i am sayign that rapidly switching weapons to acoid the negatives of the previous weapon is "cheating"... if by haveing TKA and Commando you were supposed to be able to use the TKA defences and the FT together you wouldn't need to switch, since you have to switch to avoid the negatievs it is clear that it was not intended that way.
The game is obviously designed for people to use various skills, and the devs have expressly stated exactly that. As such, it is not unbalancing for the developers to allow characters to mix skills and make different templates, but it IS unbalancing (in a very bad way) for developers to limit use of diverse skills.
Yes you can use various skills, you can use your commando skills or your tka skills as the fight requires, but to rapidly switch between them to avoid negatives unbalances things, those negatives are there for a reason, to balance.
This game was designed for diversificaton, and the developers should not be hindering that.
We are not talking about diversification here, we are talking about dodging the penalties of your weapon choice.
Why is it unbalancing for a straight, plain pistoleer to be able to change damage types?
He can, he takes the time to put away one gun and get out the next, then carries on the fight, it just takes some time to do this.. how many guns do you think he has ready on his belt?
It's a GAME!!!!!!!!! In reality there are no starships, droids, or laser guns. In reality, you can't call a Fambaa out of a datapad. In reality you can't store a speeder in your pocket. In reality, you do not travel from planet to planet instantaneously. In reality, a person cannot carry 50 crates of goods on their back in a backpack. In reality, full days do not last less than one gaming hour.
There is NO reason to add so much "reality" to the game that it makes it a pain in the ass to play. Delays are a pain in the ass, and should not be implemented in any way, shape, or form unless there is a REAL reason for it (Note: Making donning more clothes realistic is NOT a good reason).
D&D is a game too, in that there are delays for putting on armour, you know why? because armour gives you an advantage and when caught by suprise you lose that advantage... Same in SWG if you are prepared you have the advantage.
This too is really silly. You are saying that players developers are giving players different types of armor that are good in different situations, BUT that players should not be able to change their armor to better suit their situation.
WHAT?!?!?! What the hell is the point of armor that is good at different things, if you cant change armor to best suit your situation?
The point is that if you are aware of the situation you are entering and know what you will be facing you can prepare by equiping the right armour, if you are caught by suprise by your enemy then they will have the advantage... its known as tactics.
Why not just nerf all armor to have 15% resistances to everything and leave it at that?In fact lets get rid of all the armor types, and have only one type of armor that comes in only grey. If you are going to be unimaginative, lets go all out.
Actually it should increase the variety in the long run and make people think about what armour they are intending to wear, depending on the situations they expect to find themself in.
Sometimes, you can equip your armor while you are doing something else. However, that requires (1) actual time to do so, and (2) me having to sit there and at least 30 seconds ahead of time saying "hey I need to put my armor on 30 seconds in advance." Also there are MANY situations where you DO have to wait 30 seconds.
Again planning in advance, allows for tactical situations
I will give you 2 examples:
(1) Last night I ran a mission that was 200m away from my location. My armor was not equipped by the time I got there, and I ended up having to wait for it to finish.
Why didn't you start putting your armour on before you started to look for missions?
(2) Last night I got incapped, and backed away from the mob to heal up. As you well know, armor kills your regeneration, so I removed my armor to help out. After I finished, I started back into the fray. BUT WAIT, I need to put my armor back on...*stands for 35 seconds waiting on nothing.*
Part of the balance of wearing armour is that it slows your regenration, removing it to avoid this is simply trying to avoid the negatives while still recieving the benefits
The point is that this change serves no purpose other than the pure and unadulterated annoyance of players. It is not a fun change to the game, and it doesn't fix jack. It sucks.
"Reality" is no justification for annoying the piss out of me in the fantasy world I use to escape reality.
And as i implyed the realism is not the real reason, though it is a valid point for those of us who are actually roleplayers in this "roleplaying game". The real reason is balance.