Commando Archive
Thread: It's kinda ludicrous...
Hey all, I've been away for a while......
Actually, I've been away from the forums and working on a new BH character on Starsider who, unfortunately, is a lot more fun than my 3340 Commando/CH/TKA.
But, the point of this post is, as a novice marksman.. that is, 3443 Marksman, with a 60-210 1.3(speed slice) FWG5(powerup 76-275), I handily outdamaged my commando in every situation.... probably even if you factor in Flame DOT, and from whatever range I wanted.... pistols don't miss(well, you know what I mean), evenmoving at 64m, as I'm sure some of you canattest to. Spamming Bodyshot 2 until the cows come home, I could solo slice hounds, bocatts, stormtroopers, mottled wrixes, whatever. Next time I see one, I'll try a grand wrix, even though now I'm a BH there... because that is something that owns my commando every time if I don't have a pet out.
I don't know, maybe I am wrong when I say handily outdamage... but I'm convinced my damage was on par, and I didn't have the huge melee penalty. Plus, at that point, I had 200 or so skill points free. Especially considering I could have been just as effective as a 4000 Scout 0400 Marksman for mask scent and pistol specialization.
Well, have at me.
Athein
Commando/Tarquinas
Caeree
BH/Starsider
i know its down right ronge
but the devs dont seeem to think that or they dont realliz it
Chragra
Master Commando
Ironmonkey, I don't understand your point. Without a pet, solo, any of these things would incap either of my characters, hands down.
Seething bol crushers are great to fry, since they are vulnerable to heat, but.... Even one on one, it would incap a commando. In a group, the commando would certainly do better than the subject of this discussion, a 4000scout/0400 marksman, but thats not my point. My point is, at that skill level my BH to be went out and soloed slice hound lairs, killing one slice hound at a time. Which is fair. However, when she was aggroed by the whole pack (which, at that point, consisted of 2 males, 3 females, and 2 babies), she managed to bodyshot them all to death before she died, two out of three such times. Which a commando wielding a commando weapon couldn't manage to do, imo.
Also, a note to anyone exp-ing! Make sure you have level 2 mask scent, and your (higher level) weapon of choice. Then make sure you group with a pet or droid. Then go NW of coronet and find the plentiful supply of grassland slice hound lairs. Then mask scent to get in close, lay down outside of 30m, and proceed to pick off the weakest ones (748 exp) and proceed to the stronger ones (1000 or so exp.) Once they're all dead, hit the lair itself once or twice............ and watch in awe as over 30!! slice hounds spawn for you to kill. I get approximately 35+-10K experience per lair....
Good luck.
Athein
The thing is, ofcourse, that it's not a contest.. there is simply no use to struggle and try to be the #1 toughest/strongest profession in the game, because the purpose of the whole existence or professions in the eyes of SOE is to create a world where every profession has it's purpose..
That purpose is not(!) to upgrade every profession and then the other and then the 1st again, neither is it to declare commando's as official superman, or any other profession for that matter.. it is to create a working function somewhere, and for commando that's functioning in a group as heavy weapons backup.
In a group, you are the man.
Do you want to solo fight, choose BH.
In my eyes, it is time to start enjoying one's own flames, not the flames towards the makers.
It will change your mind.
It will kill you on a grey september day..
HeavyWacko out
why does everyone say that commando is a support proffession. it takes no medic or scout skills to get commando, skills that you would thinked needed for a support person. we really have no use, we are out damaged by well almost everything, we can'tdraw attention away from someone else without getting inbetween the twoand we die shortly after. I would like someone to tell me why they think we are a support class. most of the skills needed to be really good at support need more skill points then we have left over.
sure we can pick up medic but why isn't that a requirement if we are supposed to be support. oh wait that sounds a lot like a combat medic.
The acid rifle is a SUPPORT weapon (though why use it over flamer is beyond idiotic, its better to do 0 damage and stack dots than do a measly 3k damage with no dot).
Grenades are SUPPORT weapons (again, why use them over flamer is beyond comprehension)
Heavy Weapons are situational weapons (combat openers).
The only thing we are left with is the launcher pistol...for which we must be pistoleers or smugglers to get anything out of it.
Is the commando a support class? You betcha. Does that make sense? Hell no. But thats how it is.
Im failing to see where the flamethrower is a support weapon. Just because it does massive damage and DOT doesnt make it a support weapon nor do I think that is SOEs intent, in fact, having the flamecone and DOTat 16mindicates that a commando is supposed to single handidly fend off a small group of people, in fact, hold your cursur in the game over the top of the lines in the commando tree and let me know what you think they are describing here. The only weapons I see as support in the commando tree would be the heavy support weapons, and thats fine, thats just part of us being a hybrid profession and having a broader role as it calls it in the book,to say we focus in support is wrong. And grenades should be best used on bunkers and lairs etc. They just as most our weapons dont work right.
And SOEs idea of keeping diferent professions good at different things where others arent? I think really they try to balance everyone to be equally good at everything and thatis the problem. Shouldn't a person who dedicates all there skill points in combat professions be better at PvP or PvEthan someone who takes a crafting profession with a little pistoleer? Then, someone who takes CH and a combat skill be great in PvE where you fight unintelligent creatures but not as good in PvP where the target realizes the CH is the problem and once the CH is gone the pet should be easy pickings as it would get confused, wouldnt that make sense?
I think SOE is on the right track with this damage mitigation they are coming out with as long as they execute it the right way. Someone whos a weaponsmith or armorsmith would be hard pressed to master those and a ranged class, and a brawler class to have both mitigation 3's but wil still be more proficient in the one that they choose to go for, while someone who dedicates their skills to combat can easily get both mitigations.
The only exception here I think is the BH's. I feel for them cause they cant turn and master another profession to get both. I think that may be a possible reason that BH got melee mitigation on the TC cause their is no chance that they can take enough brawler to get it but they can at least take enough of an elite marksman class to get ranged mitigation 2, but I still think there should be a way for them to get mitigation 3 in both. I dont think that they should just be given both unless they gave both to us commandos cause we are the only ones in the game that are marksman and brawler, but feel they should have the option of being able to.
Heavywacko said:
"[quote]In a group, the commando would certainly do better than the subject of this discussion, a 4000scout/0400 marksman, but thats not my point.[/quote]
The thing is, ofcourse, that it's not a contest.. there is simply no use to struggle and try to be the #1 toughest/strongest profession in the game, because the purpose of the whole existence or professions in the eyes of SOE is to create a world where every profession has it's purpose.."
My point isn't necessarily that commandos are underpowered, though I think we are a little bit.... which is PROBABLY just the fact that not all of our trees work well...
My point is that it's ludicrous how powerful a 0400 marksman can be. Seriously, to get there all one needs to do is spend a few hours in game... and poof, done. Maybe its just that the FWG-5 is overpowered. I have no problem with the DX2 being powerful, or the scatter, but.... I don't know, if it doesnt seem wrong that I could do 800-1200 dps(damage per second, which is also damage per shot in this case)spamming bs 2with no real time or effort, then maybe I'm just seeing things fromdifferent perspective.
Athein
"Im failing to see where the flamethrower is a support weapon. Just because it does massive damage and DOT doesnt make it a support weapon nor do I think that is SOEs intent, "
The flamethrower does no more damage than any other proffession's specials. The flamethrower is a frontloaded damage weapon...that is, instead of putting those 8k damage over a period of 10 seconds via several shots, we do it in 1 shot and we cannot fire anything else until the timer wears out. The fact that we cannot target a specific ham bar balances out the other prof's ability to do just that.. we have a 33% chance of hitting the health bar and 66% chance of not hitting it.
Now, the fact that we dont do more damage than other profs means that in a group, there's nothing 'special' about the commando... except that commando is the only class that can single-handedly apply that frontloaded damage and dot to many targets inside the cone in ONE shot (flamecone). Now, please tell me how the commando can use such a class-unique ability in solo situation? If you go and flamecone a nest of kamuriths, no matter if you hit them all with the flamecone, they WILL kill you. Flameconing durnis or lower level creatures is nothing that a single-targeting, ham-specific shooting proffession (pistoleer, carbineer,rifleman, bh) cannot just as efficiently.
"in fact, having the flamecone and DOTat 16mindicates that a commando is supposed to single handidly fend off a small group of people"
Andit does!When was the last time a small group of people (players) not actively avoid getting inside 16m of your flamethrower? 
.
"in fact, hold your cursur in the game over the top of the lines in the commando tree and let me know what you think they are describing here."
I see 'ordenance manufacturer' in a title, yet i dont make any ordenance. Paying attention to text put there since perhaps alpha version of the game is not exactly something I pay attention to. I pay attention to what I really HAVE in the game.
"The only weapons I see as support in the commando tree would be the heavy support weapons, and thats fine, thats just part of us being a hybrid profession and having a broader role as it calls it in the book,to say we focus in support is wrong."
Shoulder mounted weapons hardly qualify as support. Again, I direct you towards the fact that the flamethrower does more damage than any shoulder mounted weapon. Not to mention the fact that it being range-specific and it only being reliable against static targets and you get the complete opposite of 'support' weaponry.
A 'support' weapon for me is, a weapon or ability that increases a group's firepower and also survivability by an amount so significant that a group without one of these would likely not survive against another group that hasone.
(real life analogy: infantry batt. with 2 heavy mortars vs inf. batt. without heavy mortars... or a rifleman squad with 1 light machine gun vs a rifleman squad without the light machine gun).
In SWG, a group with 1 commando can go hunt dangerous game, and its the frontloaded damage+dot that brings down said game much quicker. We literally shave off 10 seconds of combat (perhaps 20 if we count dot damage) per engagement.. and thats 10-20 seconds the group doesnt take damage. Remember we do the same damage as, say, a pistoleer over time.. but we compress those 10 seconds of shooting into 1 shot. And in 1 shot we can apply that time-shaving frontloaded damage to multiple targets.
In a solo situation, that doesnt benefit the commando at all.. because, as I said, we do the same damage over time others do. Go an flamecone a nest of grauls..hit all 3 of them with it while solo. Doesnt do you much good does it?
Grenades areas pointless as the HAR when the flamer does much better damage and dots. Shoulder mounted heavy weapons again, dont do more damage than a flame special..their only benefit is range..albeit that they wont hit a moving target, wont hit a target unless its inside 1 or2m of its only +accuracy range, and they STILL hit a random ham bar (66% chance your second shot wont hit the same ham bar the first shot did). But you can do flamesingle2-like damage without dot from beyond 16m.
So again I say, the commando weapon trees are geared towards support of a group, not to benefit the individual. (even though 2 trees are made obsolete and pointless by the flamer tree and the heavy weapons tree are of so limited use they barely server as **edit** expensive combat openers).
And frankly, I like it. If it was up to me id make the flamer be like the heavy weapons: not a weapon to lob fireballs with, but rather get inside the specified range and HIT IT. If it was up to me id make grenades have effects like blind, stun, kd, dizzy, bleeds, fire dots.... id remove the stupid har and put in a specials tree for the beam rifle and launcher pistol. and id increase the damage of the shoulder weapons by 50% and give all ap3 and put a way where only the shoulder mounted weapons can choose what ham bar to hit (like 'aim' command).
And frankly, I like it. If it was up to me id make the flamer be like the heavy weapons: not a weapon to lob fireballs with, but rather get inside the specified range and HIT IT. If it was up to me id make grenades have effects like blind, stun, kd, dizzy, bleeds, fire dots.... id remove the stupid har and put in a specials tree for the beam rifle and launcher pistol. and id increase the damage of the shoulder weapons by 50% and give all ap3 and put a way where only the shoulder mounted weapons can choose what ham bar to hit (like 'aim' command).
I like the tone of your post Tac. Perhaps the term "support class" is what I and other commandos stumble over. Perhaps if we understood that the true strength of the commando is to use our flamethrower and it's specials to "soften up" a target or even a group of targets using flame cone and having the group we are in move in for the kill.
I wish we could make the changes to our weapons that you list above. I wish we could "soften up" a target with the Flamethrower and switch to a Beam Rifle to finish the job myself. I would also like the LP be a effective, accurate, devastating weapon who's most powerful attack isn't /killframerate.