Commando Archive
Thread: Proposal from a Jedi / MComm: Give all Professions a Progression Tree
Message Edited by MX13 on 07-23-2005 09:24 AM
Message Edited by MX13 on 07-23-2005 11:07 AM
Message Edited by MX13 on 07-24-2005 06:10 PM
Message Edited by MX13 on 07-28-2005 04:08 PM
I wouldn't mind that at all. In fact, I like that idea, a lot. I'd like to see that combined with the idea Cpl_fisher had a while back about getting a visit from a Grizzled Old Commando, inviting you back to his hidden base out in the middle of nowhere.
The problem is that I can see a lot of people, and I mean a lot of people crying about it, saying that only Jedi should be allowed to progress that far, saying it's not fair, etc...
Add to that the diehards who say that there shouldn't be any Alpha professions, period.
). I don't think SOE should keep rewarding grinding so much.If they implemented trees like that, they should work more like pilot tiers, where you have experience requirements, BUT you also have mission requirements. Those missions could be faction-related (with Jabba being the neutral one, whatever.)
Also, make the quests instanced (similar to the Corvette) to prevent group raids, make them solo or duo (and make them POSSIBLE to be soloed- don't make it rely so much on combat, put objectives in. If duo, both people have to be working on the same profession mission- i.e., BOTH master commandos.) Make the quests complicated so that idiots won't have a chance (I know I sound harsh, but DAMN it irritates me to run into someone who is more powerful than I am with a FOTM build simply because all he has to do is hit a button. Has NO clue about how to fight other than spamming "Headshot" with some uber rifle.) Make it randomized so that you can't get any reliable information about it on the forums.
That might actually be some REAL high-end content.
Ryubushi wrote:
I wouldn't mind that at all. In fact, I like that idea, a lot. I'd like to see that combined with the idea Cpl_fisher had a while back about getting a visit from a Grizzled Old Commando, inviting you back to his hidden base out in the middle of nowhere.
The problem is that I can see a lot of people, and I mean a lot of people crying about it, saying that only Jedi should be allowed to progress that far, saying it's not fair, etc...
Add to that the diehards who say that there shouldn't be any Alpha professions, period.
Well, I'm a Jedi... we're not talking about making new trees like Jedi have, just some cool bonuses for the Old Salts. My thought on this is that a Teir 6 Elite profession would be about equal (as you can be) to a Jedi Padawan (good)/ Knight. And why not? If they spend that much time playing that profession wouldn't they be that good? Haven't they earned the right to take it to a higher level?
It's reasonable to me to think the BEST of the BEST of Commandos could take out a Jedi Knight. OR a Jedi Knight having a tough time taking them out. That's what the basis for the EU / KOTOR was, tha Mandolorian Wars.
Would everyone like it? No, but since when does everyone on these forums agree, hehe.
Awesome idea, thanks for adding it. This would take a @#$% of a long time to develop though... I like it though. More content is always welcome.
DarkNexus1014 wrote:
If they implemented trees like that, they should work more like pilot tiers, where you have experience requirements, BUT you also have mission requirements. Those missions could be faction-related (with Jabba being the neutral one, whatever.)
MX13 wrote:
Ryubushi wrote:
I wouldn't mind that at all. In fact, I like that idea, a lot. I'd like to see that combined with the idea Cpl_fisher had a while back about getting a visit from a Grizzled Old Commando, inviting you back to his hidden base out in the middle of nowhere.
The problem is that I can see a lot of people, and I mean a lot of people crying about it, saying that only Jedi should be allowed to progress that far, saying it's not fair, etc...
Add to that the diehards who say that there shouldn't be any Alpha professions, period.
Well, I'm a Jedi... we're not talking about making new trees like Jedi have, just some cool bonuses for the Old Salts. My thought on this is that a Teir 6 Elite profession would be about equal (as you can be) to a Jedi Padawan (good)/ Knight. And why not? If they spend that much time playing that profession wouldn't they be that good? Haven't they earned the right to take it to a higher level?
It's reasonable to me to think the BEST of the BEST of Commandos could take out a Jedi Knight. OR a Jedi Knight having a tough time taking them out. That's what the basis for the EU / KOTOR was, tha Mandolorian Wars.
Would everyone like it? No, but since when does everyone on these forums agree, hehe.
It's reasonable to me to think the BEST of the BEST of Commandos could take out a Jedi Knight. OR a Jedi Knight having a tough time taking them out. That's what the basis for the EU / KOTOR was, tha Mandolorian Wars.
I agree completely. Trouble is that the devs don't seem to get that. The only profession they acknowledge as potentially going toe-to-toe with a Jedi and surviving is a BH, and only BH. They have no concept of what a commando is supposed to be, either in real life, or in the Star Wars universe.
Would everyone like it? No, but since when does everyone on these forums agree, hehe.
True, but the devs have this habit of listening to large numbers of players that represent a significant portion of the user base. Wooks started to complain about not having armor, and they got armor. Jedi complain about permadeth, so it vanishes. Jedi complain about too many BHs tracking them too easily, so Jedi hunting is moved to the master box and names are removed from terminals, replaced with faction information instead. As commandos, more importantly, die-hard commandos, we are an extremely small majority.
I support your idea, I really dowant to see it in the game. I want to have something more to strive for other than following the rest of the crowd and going Jedi.
But, it won't happen. Probably an entire quarter of the player base have Jedi characters now, maybe as much as a third. Worse still, about half or more of those who don't have Jedi yet are grinding towards Jedi, my idiot brother included.
Jedi, in short, are what the majority want and care about. SOE has proven time and time again that they are more willing to cater to that and ignore us "lesser" professions in so doing.
Chances are good that by this time next year, if the game hasn't sunk completely by then, you'll see SOE phasing out these "lesser professions" in favor of Jedi. I'm sorry to say that at this point, I honestly believe that is a distinct possiblity.
I see your point Ryu, but combined, normal professions still have the majority over jedi. If every elite profession wanted this, then there's a possibility that it might work.
However, the trees there wouldn't give us enough power to kill a fully templated defender/lightsabers/healer padawan. You'd need to add some more mods, for instance, something that decreases the timer for stims so the commandos who don't have healing abilities have a chance to survive on stims in combat. To counteract that I'd add better buffs and more efficiency to the doc line.
Also, a 6th tier super damage special would be nice, as well as more than one unarmed special.
It would be cool if we could, say, get our tier weapons (especially the mando ones) built by a weaponsmith, and then we could find power cells or other upgrades in some places (loot and quests)that we can upgrade them with, similar to crystals in lightsabers.
If done right, this could effectively eliminate alpha professions, and give jedi grinders an alternative since this would still be easier than the FS grind combined with the template grind. It would at least bridge the gap between jedi and normal professions by a lot.
Message Edited by JoKen_Jash on 07-23-2005 01:29 PM
Excellent Ideas, thank you and keep them coming.
JoKen_Jash wrote:
I see your point Ryu, but combined, normal professions still have the majority over jedi. If every elite profession wanted this, then there's a possibility that it might work.
However, the trees there wouldn't give us enough power to kill a fully templated defender/lightsabers/healer padawan. You'd need to add some more mods, for instance, something that decreases the timer for stims so the commandos who don't have healing abilities have a chance to survive on stims in combat. To counteract that I'd add better buffs and more efficiency to the doc line.
Also, a 6th tier super damage special would be nice, as well as more than one unarmed special.
It would be cool if we could, say, get our tier weapons (especially the mando ones) built by a weaponsmith, and then we could find power cells or other upgrades in some places (loot and quests)that we can upgrade them with, similar to crystals in lightsabers.
If done right, this could effectively eliminate alpha professions, and give jedi grinders an alternative since this would still be easier than the FS grind combined with the template grind. It would at least bridge the gap between jedi and normal professions by a lot.
Message Edited by JoKen_Jash on 07-23-2005 01:29 PM
Ryubushi wrote:
My hatred for Jedi is well-known, and since you're also one of us, I'm trying to curb myself some, so bear with me if I come across as overly harsh any, because for once, I'm not trying to be a jerk.
It's reasonable to me to think the BEST of the BEST of Commandos could take out a Jedi Knight. OR a Jedi Knight having a tough time taking them out. That's what the basis for the EU / KOTOR was, tha Mandolorian Wars.
I agree completely. Trouble is that the devs don't seem to get that. The only profession they acknowledge as potentially going toe-to-toe with a Jedi and surviving is a BH, and only BH. They have no concept of what a commando is supposed to be, either in real life, or in the Star Wars universe.
Would everyone like it? No, but since when does everyone on these forums agree, hehe.
I support your idea, I really dowant to see it in the game. I want to have something more to strive for other than following the rest of the crowd and going Jedi.
But, it won't happen. Probably an entire quarter of the player base have Jedi characters now, maybe as much as a third. Worse still, about half or more of those who don't have Jedi yet are grinding towards Jedi, my idiot brother included.
The first thing you said is the core of the problem and why something like this NEEDS to happen IMO. The Hate. When I posted this idea in the Jedi forums I titled it "Reduce the Hate:..." and I'm sad to say most Jedi didn't get it.
Jedi needs to be balanced against the other Elite Professions, not just BH. Not made equal to Jedi, but close. And there are a LOT of Jedi now and others who refuse to go Jedi to compete who would jump at a system that does that.
Should these other Tier 6 Professions be equal to Jedi Masters? No, and I don't think anyone is arguing for that, but they should be able to make a Gaurdian - Master sweat and look for another Tier 6 over their sholder during a PVP fight. And whoop a Knight who takes them lightly. Should they get a win button? No. Should a Padi be able to beat them? Yes, if the Padi is having one heck of a good day.
How many non-Jedi do you know who would like a system like this? If it's more than one, than we need to speak up... Shout if we need to. If the greater Jedi community doesn't like it, oh well, too bad for them. But most will IMO. Why? Because it's become the Jedi Vs BH game and none of us like it. That's why we're hated.
And this idea isn't just for Combat professions... give Crafters some bonuses. Why shouldn't they get some if they've crafted 10x what another crafter has? All Elite Professions deserve something to reward them for truely "Mastering" their profession.
Last, don't hate all Jedi. Not all deserve it, just the stupid ones. Plus if something like this happens, you'll begin seeing a LOT less Jedi, trust me. If the title "Mandolorian Commando" was added to anything, you'ld see a HUGE rush there... and then maybe we'll get special attacks 
Message Edited by MX13 on 07-23-2005 11:04 AM
MX13 wrote:
Jedi needs to be balanced against the other Elite Professions, not just BH. Not made equal to Jedi, but close. And there are a LOT of Jedi now and others who refuse to go Jedi to compete who would jump at a system that does that.
Great proposal!
I got into SWG to join the Empire. To join the Imperial military, and it was a nice discovery to find out I could get and wear Stormtrooper Armor.
I never had, or will EVER have, any desire to be a Jedi in SWG. I have Jedi Outcast and both Knights of the Old Republic games for that. I wanted to be a soldier of the Empire.
A proposal like seems pretty cool. Just give me a chance to be an Imperial Stormcommando!
"If they can be fooled, they can be killed." Message Edited by JoKen_Jash on 07-23-2005 06:04 PM