CUEmu - Thread Posts

Kraftomatic

Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:02 am

No, the title of this post is not literial. I know what the commando profession is in SWG. But my point is...

Did you ever read in guides or other SWG Websites what the real image andjob descriptionof a commando was? If you did you would probably read:

"No one throws grenades as accurately as a commando" (ROFL Yeah Right)

"Whether behind the tripod of an E-Web Repeating Blaster, or controlling an anti-infantry turret, the commando can control entire areas of a battlefield alone"

"In the wild, the commando is an excellent shot -Being a Master Marksman-and vicious in hand to hand combat"

-Official Prima Strategy Guide

So we understand a commando is supposed to be skilled with weapons of war. Pistols, Carbines, Heavy Weapons, Rifles, Grenades etc. an "all aroundgood shot".A commando is supposed to rely on a variety of weapons to get the job done and be a true hardcore, fightingsoldier.

The image and description sounds excellent, yes. But let's look at the reality. Ever try to use Unarmed IVitself in combat either in PvP or something more difficult than a chuba? I didn't think so. Ever use Rifles IV, Carbines or Pistols IV alone in PvP or against difficult creatures in the "wilderness".Ah I didn't think so. You would miss horribly at that skill level and be slow with low damage shots. Being a master marksman is only a stepping stone and let's face it, someone who is a commando is only going to rely on commandoheavy weapons. Which brings me to the point of my post - What is a commando?

Let's look at the Bounty Hunter Tree. They are skilled with a Heavy Weapon, the Lightining Cannon. They geta lighting single and lighting cone just as commandos get their Flame Single and Flame Cone. They get to use a scatter pistol and have good pistol accuracy and speed bonuses. They can target the mind and blind with eyeshot and have torsco shot and other decent specials. They even use carbines and can knockdown along with other good carbine specials not to mention the carbine speed and accuracy.

Now it seems to me that if you deleted "Bounty Hunter" and renamed the profession "Commando" you would have a better profession and a profession fitting the true definition. (well..if you replaced the investigations tree with grenades and heavy weapons)

Who is more likea commando? Well if you showed me two people (Hypothetical here), wearing no titles at all...and Person Number One (Bounty Hunter) Ran up to the 40 Meter Range, Knocked me down with his carbine, started to fire confusion shots and fire knockdowns, ran closer taking out a lightining cannon, shocked me with giant streams of lighting, then ran extremely close to shoot me point blank to death with a pistol...and...

Number Two (Commando) Starts to run at me from far away....the flame puffs hit me from auto attacking but barely do any damage. As he gets closer (18m) he fires a flame single from his flamethrower that misses....1 second goes by as the commando simply stands there waiting 5 seconds for his flame single...I easily knock him down and he gets up and burst runs really fast away from me.

If I was a newbie, and I saw person Number One and Person Number Two fight either otherplayers or creatures, I would probably tell you Person Number One was a Commando. And the observation here is amazing. Bounty Hunters get excellent bonuses tothe very weapons they use at master marksman, and they use a heavy weapon too. Bounty Hunters use three different weapons, including a heavy weapon, and have many specials which can apply states, target a pool and apply status effects? I'm sort of confused.. I look at the commando skill tree and wonder if there is a point to even creating the profession.

Well I'm a former master commando. And you know what was 1,000 times better then being a master commando?? DROPPING THE PROFESSION! Now that I am a master rifleman, fencer and Teras Kasi 4-0-0-0, I am loving it so much. Not only do I get to use a Stun Baton and Jawa Ion Rifle (AP1), I also get the AP3 T21, the AP2 DXR6 Rifle, AP2 Laser Rifle,Ranged Death Blow with sniper shot, I can powerboost, meditate away poisons, diseases, bleeding and all wounds, I can target the mind pool with headshot...I can attack creatures without aggoring me,I have +105 dodge and about +80 or so block. Heck, I have more armor piercing weapons and more devastating specials (some can posture down, blind, dizzy stun, etc etc) then I ever did with commando.

Infact it's ashame I had to drop commando in order to feel like a realsoldier. But you know what, look at my abilities. I can stun mutliple targets, dizzy and disorient multiple targets, posture down targets, posture up, I have an arsenal of more armor piercing weapons I could ask for (and multiple damage type weapons..stun, heat, energy, acid, cold, keneticetc)... I have Ranged AND Melee Mitigation 1, 2, 3...And if you get in melee range of me I am deadly hand to hand being a master fencer. So if you compare my abilities with the description in thestrategy guide, wouldn't you say I am a commando? Wouldn't you say I could hold down a battlefield?Infact if you master any elite marksman profession and any elite brawler profession, you would probably be more of a commando then the commando profession itself.

Quick review, the commando profession basically has TWO Specials (Single2, Area2..the acid rifle being weak and the specials redundant) with no good defenses, no posture attacks, no chance to apply states...no armor piercing (excluding disposable heavy weapons). they get a cool pistol but no specials or bonuses to compliment it... Infact the only commando state they can apply is fire DoT which was, LoL, alreadynerfed, that figures. Why not just make the profession have one tree to it, the flamethrower tree. (just kidding).

Infact I've seen a heavy swordsman with a power hammer (damage type blast) drop an ATST really fast. Pistoleers dabble and use the launcher pistol...is there really a purpose for someone with skills in "commando". You think after gobbling all those skillpoints and sacrificng all the defenses (you could have got in other professions) for commando it would be worth it. But no, you get exactly what I stated in the paragraph above.

Please don't take this as an insult to the community, I'm a former master commando and I can respect all your choices to chose commando as a profession but...

Let this post be a message to SoE or the devs to really change commando and revamp the WHOLE profession of commando. I'm disappointed with the profession and I want to see a change!!! Make the commandos BE actual COMMANDOS! Not people who only rely on a slow inaccurate flamethrower or rocket launcher. Make commando a profession in battle who isn't the first dead.

....any commandos want to duel?

Kadix

Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:14 am

#2

Sorry about the odd formatting, but the message boards were giving me troubleso I copied my post into notepad and back.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kraftomatic wrote:

Number Two (Commando) Starts to run at me from far away....the flame puffs hit me from auto attacking but barely do any damage. As he gets closer (18m) he fires a flame single from his flamethrower that misses....1 second goes by as the commando simply stands there waiting 5 seconds for his flame single...I easily knock him down and he gets up and burst runs really fast away from me.

If I was a newbie, and I saw person Number One and Person Number Two fight either other players or creatures, I would probably tell you Person Number One was a Commando. And the observation here is amazing. Bounty Hunters get excellent bonuses to the very weapons they use at master marksman, and they use a heavy weapon too. Bounty Hunters use three different weapons, including a heavy weapon, and have many specials which can apply states, target a pool and apply status effects? I'm sort of confused.. I look at the commando skill tree and wonder if there is a point to even creating the profession.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Response:

I'm a BH, and Kraftomatic came to me in game and asked for an opinion and I feel that I need to defend my choosen profession. Currnetly a MBH has +24 Ranged Defense. A Master Marksman/Master Dancer has +24 ranged defense. Hitting a MBH is even easier than hitting a Master Commando (you guys get +25 defense at master, plus the bonuses from marksman and whatever you get with brawler).

The flamethrower has about the same stats as an LLC. It does more than "barely any damage". The last time I fought a commando (granted, I was just past Novice BH at the time) I quickly found myself in the medical center with 400 health wounds.

Also, bounty hunters only go up with SOME of their marksman weapons. We have no rifles tree.

BHs only get one attack that targets a specific pool: Eyeshot. We have a few DOT's that also target specific pools, but having Master Marksman gets you most of those.

Also, we spend 216 skill points to master our profession. Commandos need 169 skill points to reach master.

And don't get me started on what it takes to grind through investigation with all the bugged missions.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, enough of that. I just wanted to make sure that BH's aren't going to get nerfed. We've got the same basic problem that commandos do: No defenses. Kraftomatic wanted to know what I thought about what he had to say relating to BHs, and there it is.

And now I'm late for work.

Kraftomatic

Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:30 am

#3

My hypothetical was a bit exaggerated, but the main idea of the example was to point out how versatile the abilities and weapons of a bounty hunter are and how potentially effective the BH specials could be, compared to the main all purposeflamethrower and oneflamesingle specialwith commando.

Anyway when you have medic 0-0-4-0 and 650+ Heal Stims, plus %87 Heat Resist Composite (can't forget the AP0 (FT) vs. AP1 (Composite)reduction and %75 PvP Reduction) and Ranged Damage Mitigation 3, and the ability to meditate away 100 wound damage really fast, I have no problem recovering from a Flame Single2, after I'm in a safe place and the commando is dead. Also doctors can now craft fire blankets to end the DoT and theres always water to jump into..It seems to me like commandos are getting even more powerless.

Skeptic666

Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:34 am

#4

True True. BH should rock out the commando for the number of skill points they need. The BH should woop some butt. The only people that should be able to beat a BH in one on one combat should be a Jedi. But they need to be re vamped as well as commando in my opinion those should be the tough Professions. I know alot say Commando bla. BUt I think commandos even if they cant kill a bunch of people should be like a tank and need alot to take them down. And Bh should get some Kick butt armor and have desent weps and be able to tank. They realy need to justify the points we spend

Member of Darkk
EX Combat Upgrade Sandbox Alpha Phase: Commando Team

Kraftomatic

Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:49 am

#5

/bump

C'mon I want to hear some opinions or some /agree -ing.

TheBlacksword

Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:56 pm

#6

I agree. Commandoes are not just about big weapons. A true commando, imo, is as you said: a jack-of-all-trades (as long as they're combat trades). He can shoot his pistol, he can whip out the carbine, he can blow up a turret with grenades or rocket launchers (personally I think the RLs are a bit much). Of course, a profession such as this wouldn't be very balanced, would it? Everyone would want to be one if you were good at everything. So, where to draw the line?

Rokran Chogar, Nemesis Syndicate Council Member
Dinero, kick-butt crafter (Ubese armor in stock now! -4758 5375 near Theed!)
(Any items that I win in an auction can be delivered to my Loots, Schems, Resources, Misc vendor inside thanks!)
Check out the Nemesis Syndicate Museum! (-1779 1803 ) Nemesis City, Lok.
"...the Commando is the red-headed stepchild that fell down the ugly tree and hit EVERY branch on the way down." -Bate Aki

TechnoHic

Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:31 pm

#7

Heh, I think BHs, while getting added skills to their master marksman abilities are nice, still need a lot for the skil point investment, and BHs should be the best at one on one with commandos behind, The commandos should e the best aagainst groups of people, not just walk up and kill a group, but having a stationary weapon to where once they got it set up that part of the battle field is theirs. I dont know ho wclear that came out but does anyone get me on that?

And like you said about what the books say we are supposed to be, next time they start and In Concept thread on what commandos are supposed to be we should all say "Read your own damned description in the books you dumb assed devs!" I mean seriously, do they just ask that crap to smply buy time instead of answering the call?

CARNAGECARNAGECARNAGECARNAGECARNAGECARNAGE

Elder Commando

Carnage' - Master Munitions Trader

Nobunoga Oda - Bounty Hunter >

Kraftomatic

Wed Apr 14, 2004 7:05 pm

#8

Yep the current publishes must do something soon to fix commando..maybe...just maybe I would be one again if they added defenses, and made way more advantages to being a master then disadvantages.

Raptor2k1

Wed Apr 14, 2004 9:11 pm

#9

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=commando&message.id=44222&highlight=elite#M44222

That pretty much sums up what I think the commando should be (in great detail, I might add.

)

Kyeran Halkyon

Master Gunfighter and Demolitionist of the Old Republic Navy
SWG Commando Forum

kenrw24

Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:20 pm

#10

Without question, 'commando', as it is currently built, is not appropriately named or not appropriately built. However you want to look at it.

A commando should be a versatilely skilled soldier, trained in multiple weapons and multiple weapon types. He should be trained in demolition, as well as skills building on all the weapons he 'familiarized' with in marksman. And master marksman is a master of nothing. It's like he's gotten his learners permit finally but he still needs to get out there and practice. He should also be familiar with hand-to-hand combat, with special melee defenses and special skills for warding off attacks, wether fighting off the enemies with no weapon equipped or with a heavy weapon in hand.

The commando profession as it is currently built is totally un-commando-like. He's a guy running around trying to burn everything up in one, maybe 2 shots, before he gets killed. He's a guy who can't throw a grenade any better than a novice entertainer. And if you want to quote me, and tell me all sorts of stats that prove that wrong......I don't care. Really, I don't.

Change the profession's name to something that makes more sense, fix what is already there and add some even larger weapons/skills. Call it the Artilleryman or Artillerist or something. It would make sense for the Artillerist to make big explosions and fire off massive weapons, not being stealthy in the least. Why would he? The only person with weapons that can equal the range of his are another artillerist.

Then create a completely new profession, capped off with a familiar title: Commando. In that profession, put the things so commonly asked for, even though so many people describe them in slightly different ways:

People want skills in commandofor the things we had to learn to get to commando. For instance:

People keep talking about ranged weapons, they want some new special weapon for ranged shots. Rifles-we need more rifle skills, specifically sniper skills.Whether people ask for new types of rifles, or ranged weaons or skills for already existing rifles, they want basically the same thing-ranged weaponry. Build on the rifle skills from marksman.

Assault rifles-there was a petition about that. There was also a post from someone in the military saying an assault rifle is a CARBINE. We need more carbine skills. Do we need new types of carbines? Ok, fine. But the commando needs skills building on assault tactics with the carbine. Sniper skills with the rifle. Close quarter fighting with the pistol. Unarmed or hand-to-hand skills building on unarmed 4. Build on what got us here and make it better. These are all ways commandos would truly utilize these types of weapons.

Keep some heavy weapons, since commandos do use those to a degree, but dont make one of them the only weapon anyone will use.

And the grenadeer column. Tsk, tsk. How worthless is that? We'd be better off having a combat medic throw our grenades for us. Fix the grenades-but add more to the column: shape charges and traps similar in theory to claymoor mines, heavy demolition charges for taking out the big targets like faction bases and the like.

Something like that, i think.

AlufNull

Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:10 am

#11

Kraftomatic,

This is not to say that Commando's don't need a ton of help. For the 169 skill pts spent, commando's are woefully lacking viable skills/options in combat.

However, you are missleading yourself by comparing a Master Commando to ...

"Now that I am a master rifleman, fencer and Teras Kasi 4-0-0-0"

You could just as easily get Master Commando, 2/04/4 Pistoleer, 0/0/3/0 Smugglerand 4/0/0/3 TKA(Or switch your TKA and Commando Skills) and be able to do many of the things you mention above. Buff/Heal, Attack with speed from range, KD/Delay and have some decent defense. Not to mention that you have access to almost every damage type in the game. (We can remove cold here, since grenades suck.)

If you are going to compare, try and be fair about it.

"Stop thinking with your flame thrower!" - Bobbi Sox (Master Dabbler), Tarquinas
Tira-Misu Master Gunfighter / Master Bio Engineer (Retired)

fareone

Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:37 pm

#12

i was bh and now im commando ..and i have to say they are sux ..bh littlestronger but same **edit** ..all skill points-->> u got noting

got Ofio( lowca)... opef ofio( lowca)

Kraftomatic

Sat Apr 17, 2004 5:33 am

#13

**edit**...lol I was being fair about comparing. I was comparing myself previously as a master commando alone, and myself now with my abilities. Keep this is context please.

Commando Archive

Thread: What is a commando? (Please Read,Message to all commandos/commando correspondant)