Commando Archive
Thread: Why should we ask for an entire tree for the launcher pistol?
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Ryubushi
Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:23 am
#1
Judging by how many people seem to support the idea of an entire tree devoted soley to the launcher pistol, this thread is likely to earn me a crapload of one-stars. Still...
We do not need an entire tree for the LP.
I will never argue the fact that the LP is an awesome weapon. I love my LP, I do. But I see so many people asking for the HAR to be removed, and give it's tree to the launcher pistol...
I must disagree with that idea.
Does the LP need some specials of it's own? Yes. Does it need an entire tree for them? No.
My idea is to merge the flamer, the HAR, and the new heavy assault rifle (minigun!) that we keep asking for into a single tree, and within this tree we shall also have a couple of LP specials. We'll call this the Anti-Personneltree or something.
That still leaves one more open tree. That tree needs to be devoted to making our pre-requisite skills useful. How many of us use any of our marksman/UA skills after we hit novice commando (excluding the pistols line for the LP), excluding people who pick up side-professions like pistoleer, tka, rifleman, and carbineer. Not too many, I'm sure.
With all the time and skill points we invest to become master commandos, we should be better than a mere master marksman,even if only slightly better. We should be better than the average UA4 thug, but not on par with a TKA. If we gave an entire tree to the launcher pistol alone, theseissues would probably never be resolved.
So, we'd have a tree devoted to making these skills better...we'll call it Commando Basics or something. Box 1 could be pistol mods, with a new special (that can also be used with the LP), box 2 would be rifle mods with a new special, 3 would be carbines, and 4 would be UA (ideally there would be a KD special here), and then there would be a few final mods at master, maybe with a new special for each weapon group.
This tree would give accuracy mods to all pistols we have, LP included, with new specials to tack on top of the ones gained from the Anti-Personnel tree. Rifles, carbines, and our UA skills also become useful again, without the need to pick up an entire profession devoted to them.
So, am I still the only one who thinks this is a better alternative to giving the LP an entire tree to itself? Thoughts/comments/suggestions welcome, flames are not.
Message Edited by Ryubushi on 10-13-2004 09:27 AM
Raptor2k1
Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:24 am
#2
I've always thought that would be a better alternative myself. The LP is spiffy and all, but no way I think it deserves an entire tree. Heck, why can't we have a normal rocket gun instead of a pistol of all things?
obidoobiesoobiecanoobie
Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:46 am
#3
How bout we combine the specials for the two. Kinda like overcharge shot. You can use it on any of the weapons or the LP and assault rifle.
garvin
Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:49 am
#4
Awhile back TH hinted that we might be getting a new tree but that nothing had be decided on...
I can tell you that, in the revamp stuff I saw, I didn't see what that new tree might be or if it's already worked in there...The revamp of our profession was using trees that we already had (with a lot of goodies added to each of them)...
I approached Kel (one of the Revamp programmers) regarding the new tree and he said "hmmm...we hadn't thought ofadding in the new tree WITH the revamp, but maybe..." He gave me the impression that he wanted us to get a feel for the Revamp changes and then decide if 1) We still needed a new tree & 2) Based on the changes in the Revamp, what type of tree we now felt we needed to make us complete...Remember...the key thing is that all of our Trees are getting a bit of a shake-up asare most Combat Professions...
So let me ask you this...Pre-Revamp...If you knew we could only get one new tree and had to decide between the following for the new tree which would you prefer:
- A LP tree with skill mods and specials
- An Unarmed/Melee Tree with Melee defenses and Specials
- An Assult Rifle Tree which utilizes our heavy weapon speed and accuracy but comes with ranged specials
- Defenses & Counters that up our defensive level and allow us to counter (with a cost) certain status effects
What would be your primary choice? I'll probably ask again once everyone knows what Revamp changes are coming (and it's sunk in)...I know what my choice would be, but I'm biased and I have insider knowledge
, soI'm not sharing yet...
, soI'm not sharing yet...I partly wanted tobring this up (and now is a good time for it with this thread) because I didn't want people to be surprised or upset IF we don't see a new tree with the Revamp...that doesn't mean that one isn't coming...Personally, and it took awhile for me to realize this, I like the idea of us basing our "new tree" decission on what we still need post-revamp, instead of deciding before the revamp and getting something that could become redundent or not as useful thanks to other revamp changes....
Thoughts? Like I said...a lot could have changed, and Kel may have gotten a new tree worked in there for all I know (I haven't seen a updated "By Profession" revamp doc yet)...
Ryubushi
Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:14 am
#5
garvin wrote:
Awhile back TH hinted that we might be getting a new tree but that nothing had be decided on...
I can tell you that, in the revamp stuff I saw, I didn't see what that new tree might be or if it's already worked in there...The revamp of our profession was using trees that we already had (with a lot of goodies added to each of them)...
I approached Kel (one of the Revamp programmers) regarding the new tree and he said "hmmm...we hadn't thought ofadding in the new tree WITH the revamp, but maybe..." He gave me the impression that he wanted us to get a feel for the Revamp changes and then decide if 1) We still needed a new tree & 2) Based on the changes in the Revamp, what type of tree we now felt we needed to make us complete...Remember...the key thing is that all of our Trees are getting a bit of a shake-up asare most Combat Professions...
So let me ask you this...Pre-Revamp...If you knew we could only get one new tree and had to decide between the following for the new tree which would you prefer:
- A LP tree with skill mods and specials
- An Unarmed/Melee Tree with Melee defenses and Specials
- An Assult Rifle Tree which utilizes our heavy weapon speed and accuracy but comes with ranged specials
- Defenses & Counters that up our defensive level and allow us to counter (with a cost) certain status effects
What would be your primary choice? I'll probably ask again once everyone knows what Revamp changes are coming (and it's sunk in)...I know what my choice would be, but I'm biased and I have insider knowledge
I partly wanted tobring this up (and now is a good time for it with this thread) because I didn't want people to be surprised or upset IF we don't see a new tree with the Revamp...that doesn't mean that one isn't coming...Personally, and it took awhile for me to realize this, I like the idea of us basing our "new tree" decission on what we still need post-revamp, instead of deciding before the revamp and getting something that could become redundent or not as useful thanks to other revamp changes....
Thoughts? Like I said...a lot could have changed, and Kel may have gotten a new tree worked in there for all I know (I haven't seen a updated "By Profession" revamp doc yet)...
I'd still place my vote for my suggestion, but if that's not an option, I'd go with the defenses/counters (God knows we need some more defenses), because I am still of the opinion that all our pre-req skills need some new mods, not just unarmed, and that any assault rifile should be put with the flamer into an anti-peronnel tree.
Knightcrest
Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:15 am
#6
garvin wrote:
- A LP tree with skill mods and specials
- An Unarmed/Melee Tree with Melee defenses and Specials
- An Assult Rifle Tree which utilizes our heavy weapon speed and accuracy but comes with ranged specials
- Defenses & Counters that up our defensive level and allow us to counter (with a cost) certain status effects
Assault Rifle Tree which utilizes which heavy weapon speed? Trying to figure out if you are talking the Flamer/HAR speed or the disposables which are slower. I would prefer to have an Assult Rifle Tree that is combined with the LP and join the Flamer and HAR from what we have currently and no true knowledge of any docs.
If it had to be some form of heavy weapons speed I would much rather have the Assault Rifle on par with LLC speed rather than our Flamers or HAR's. Still sticking around with Master Commando/Master Rifleman just to have something that can be destructive and at a high rate of fire with good AP (even though I do feel rifles are too fast and carbs should be faster, I just am using what the game provides atm to try and create a commandoish feeling). Easy enough to light something on fire, and switch to rifles while firing a 600+ dmgAP3 weapon at once per second and actually feel like you are demolishing something.
As far as a LP tree. I hope not... heavy weapons specialists using a pistol with no AP rating (despite it firing mini-rockets, would think at least AP1). I would prefer something a little more larger just for the feel.
All in all I vote for the "An Assult Rifle Tree which utilizes our heavy weapon speed and accuracy but comes with ranged specials" option so long as it isn't slugish and can have a high rate of fire.
*Edit* Not trying to slam any LP lovers out there, but in my opinion, a pistol is a more of a back up weapon for front line soldiers
Message Edited by Knightcrest on 10-13-2004 10:19 AM
Knightcrest
Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:23 am
#7
Ryubushi wrote:
I'd still place my vote for my suggestion, but if that's not an option, I'd go with the defenses/counters (God knows we need some more defenses), because I am still of the opinion that all our pre-req skills need some new mods, not just unarmed, and that any assault rifile should be put with the flamer into an anti-peronnel tree.
As for my second choice Ryu is right on in the fact thatmore defenses would be in great need....and that ALL of our pre-req could use some new mods.
Warmaker01
Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:23 am
#8
garvin wrote:
- A LP tree with skill mods and specials
- An Unarmed/Melee Tree with Melee defenses and Specials
- An Assult Rifle Tree which utilizes our heavy weapon speed and accuracy but comes with ranged specials
- Defenses & Counters that up our defensive level and allow us to counter (with a cost) certain status effects
Assault Rifle Tree. We might as well go with the damage dealer route. There's no way we can keep being a damage dealer and having good defenses also.
Also, I don't see why you would want to have a sole tree dedicated to the Launcher Pistol. You could just add it to the Field Tactics tree. Nothing there truly useful for non-FS-grinding people.
"If they can be fooled, they can be killed."
Ryubushi
Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:26 am
#9
My thoughts exactly.
Knightcrest wrote:
As far as a LP tree. I hope not... heavy weapons specialists using a pistol with no AP rating (despite it firing mini-rockets, would think at least AP1). I would prefer something a little more larger just for the feel.
...
*Edit* Not trying to slam any LP lovers out there, but in my opinion, a pistol is a more of a back up weapon for front line soldiers
TKA-MC
Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:07 am
#10
I agree with Knightcrest and Ryubushi. I'd like to see a rifle tree with a new weapon (new damage type or high AP) It would be nice to have DoT weapons and AP(anything) weapons that aren't disposable, this will give the profession a more complete feel.
aeuralis
Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:09 am
#11
I don't think it needs it own tree. BUT we need pistol speed and accuracy mods as well as specials for it.
MadDog36
Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:56 am
#12
Personally, I would like to see defenses first, but based on some of the suggestions given in the topic Tiggs posted, I would ideally like my trees like this:
First tree - melee mitigation/defenses, demolitions (OMG what a great idea - planting detonators on Turrets!!!!!), grenades
Second tree - ranged mitigation/defenses, heavy weapons (what we currently have), but with better range mods, and faster reload times (whether through FS skills or SEAs)
Third tree - Rifles tree (HAR, new mini-gun), with rifles specials (maybe could be used in conjuction with rifleman?) - or could have heavy weapons speed/accuracy mods
Fourth tree - Carbineer/Pistols tree (Flamethrower/LP - could be used with carbineer/pistols/bh) - or could have heavy weapons speed/accuracy mods
I don't see us assolo prof, something that can take an ATST solo, but if someone is occupying it, we can take it down in like10 seconds easy.
StarNick
Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:12 pm
#13
An Assult Rifle Tree which utilizes our heavy weapon speed and accuracy but comes with ranged specials
*Editor's Note*: This is derived from Assault Tree...not an Assault Rifle Tree...theres a bit difference, I strongly believe we should have an Assault Tree that doesn't limit weapon types...just weapon purposes. For example, the AR and LP both have the same purpose...but are different weapon types (like a pistol to a carbine), yet still fit under a general Assault Tree*
I think this should be a primarily focus...our Unarmed IV pre-req should really be devoted in defenses...sort of like a Toughness attribute (a la BH with hunting...they require Explore IV) and shouldn't have a full tree devoted to specific unarmed specials and "stuff" - I think that would prolly de-balance us, by making our role spread just too thin (think about it...Hvy hitters, long range hitting, melee range hitting, now unarmed?...Just too much)
This is where an Assault Tree should come into play...and where our common pool of HW mods help us rather than dabblers. Of course, this would require at least 2 of our 3 HVY/SHVY weapons to be merged...for simplicity and efficiency, that would involve the FT/HAR trees. As how I see it:
Our Tactics tree focuses on gernade usage and defenses
Our Hvy Weapons tree focuses on heavy weapons
Our Special Hvy Weapons tree focuses on the heavy weapons (also could include that melee KD move I proposed for the FT/HAR too)
Our Assault Tree focuses on everything in between...the LP, misc melee moves, and future weapons that arent restricted to pure Hvy Weapons
In Summary...this would allow commando stay true to what it is, a predominantly ranged and versitile profession. Its unique weapons come in the form of Hvy Weaps and Gernades, while its ability to use pre-req specials and/or weapons fall into its general classification (the assault tree). This can also be a wonderful base for future weapons, specials, etc etc and doesn't just limit the commando to hvy weapons (as is now, probably why the LP never got any specials or mods in our profession, since it didnt really quite fit in any of the trees!)
Or...you can also look at it this way:
Tactics Tree - Defense/Explosives...unique abilities
Hvy Weapons Tree - Hvy Hitting...unique abilities
Sp Hvy Weapons Tree - Special Fighting Techniques (melting or setting someone on fire aint that orthodox! heh)...melee ranged abilities
Assault Tree - Just as garvin said...our Ranged abilities
My 5 cents...
Message Edited by StarNick on 10-13-2004 06:14 PM
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