Commando Archive

Message Edited by DrkSensei on 08-24-2004 04:18 PM

A quite good list. Just a few thoughts.

1) The +30 speed on FT/HAR is conservative. If the original plan was for the FT and the HAR trees to both give Heavy Weapon Speed and Heavy weapon Accuracy, then commandos would have ended up with +90 Speed and +160 accuracy....EXACTLY what riflemen have today. You could easily be asking for +45 to each and have a valid argument. I think a request to ALSO bump the FT/HAR accuracy is reasonable as a result. +50 each anyone?

2) HAR with AP 2 or 3 would help enormously. But let's not forget the Launcher Pistol. It should be AP1 minimum. Adding rifleman specials for HAR and a working pistoleer special or two would be tremendous, tying that back to your ealier post ideas about "Which other professions specials would you like to adopt" thread. (it was something like that)

3) MELEE/STATE DEFENSES! Enough said.

4) Either make the CM poisons and bomb droids affect the throwers or make grenades not affect Commandos who throw them. EITHER option is acceptable. And that will show your even handedness and willingness to negotiate! And your idea to bump the size of the stacks on consumables WITHOUT increasing the crafters material input amounts is a great idea. It will make these a better bang for the buck.....or is that BOOM for the buck?

5) How about a bigger accuracy bump on the Consumable Heavy Weapons in the Master box if they won't fix the heavy weapon tapes? Just as an alternative if there is a problem in fixing the tapes and since changing a number in a table SHOULD be easy.

Well done Mr. Garvin sir. Light them up and keep them roasting in Texas!

RIEN
Master Commando - Corbantis

I like that top 5.


I'd personally go with a FT/HAR statistical comparison for emphasis, e.g.

Average FT:
440-840 4.8 78/16/16

Average HAR:
310-710 5.2 (much bigger)

Same delay modifier on specials, FT has 8x damage mod on Single 2 while HAR has 4.8x damage mod (FT 2/3 more damaging specials)

Same AP (0).

HAR tree requires more HW XP to advance than the FT tree (or any of the other Commando trees)

HAR needs to have the Special Damage modifier increased -and- AP of at least 1, if not 2, to compete for DPS with the FT. Combining the trees would allow these changes to be made easily, as well as allowing for another weapon of the same class to be added in the future.

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Brilyn wrote:

A

With regards issue 5, "They are hard to find due to crafting difficulty" is inaccurate. Heavy Weapons are some of the easiest to make. They only require general Steel, Iron, Metal, Chrystalline Gemstone and Carbonate Ore, and all the same quantities of each. Compare this to the monster that is the T21, and you'll see that Heavy Weapons are unbelieveably simple to manufacture as a Weaponsmith. Why do Weaponsmiths whine about them? That, I don't know.

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We did have one WS compare the creation process of the RL to the T21 and come to the conclusion that the RL was about twice as hard to create.

Daker = Red.

Issue 1) Damage Per Second: Currently Commandos are out-damaged when it comes to DPS by various other professions. This stems mainly from the speed of our weapons combined with our accuracy.

Suggested Solution: By adding +30 Flame Thrower Speed & +30 Heavy Acid Rifle Speed to the Master Commando box, the DPS of the Commando profession would be brought closer on par with other profession under the current system. Via the current ingame speed formula, by increasing our speed per the amount specified, our "after special combat queue delay" will be decreased to just over half what it is currently, and thus our DPS will be increased accordingly.

Love it. I agree this should be first....

One comment... I know we are trying to reward master commandodom, but I think our DPS is borked across the board. Could we fix more and accomplish the same thing by doing one of the following:

(1) Add a +5 to Flame II and Flame IV, then a +20 at Master (still totals 30 and favors masters, just gives lower commandosa little boost too)

-or-

(2) Add a +2 to all 4 Flame boxes and a +25 at Master (Total = Extra +33)

Issue 2) Heavy Acid Rifle: The HAR is in desperate need of a total revamp or replacement. The HAR is weaker then FT, has no DoT, no AP, and suffers same restrictions as the FT yet costs more XP to grind the Acid Tree and has greater HAM costs on its specials.

Suggested Solutions: Apparent from a total replacement (Ranged Assult Rifle), increase the range to 32m or 64m, increase to AP3 (only Acid weapon currently in game without Armor Piercing), and combine with Flame Thrower Tree). Many of us would accept a slight damage decrease in exchange for a range increase (it is a Rifle after all). There has also been the suggestion of scrapping it's current specials and replacing them with ranged "rifletype specials that cause status effects.

Love it. If they make it AP3 and change the range to 32m I will be tickled pink....

Issue 3) Lack of Melee Defense: Commandos have the highest Combat related pre-req cost of all profession in game which includes both Melee and Ranged pre-reqs, yet comparatively, it has one of the lowest levels of defenses (based on cost comparison to Master Level). Commandos are also the only Ranged profession that has ALL of it's specials restricted to Melee range of 16m which forces Commandos to take more Melee damage in fights then other Ranged professions that have higher Melee Defenses.

Suggested Solutions: Due to skill point cost and Melee Range restriction, Commando should have same or more Melee Defenses then any other Ranged Profession. More Melee Defense and Def Vs. mods should be added to level 4 trees of Commando as well as Master Commando.

I think the best way to address this is to ask for melee toughness... Something to build (stack) on our unarmed typs mods would be nice (TKA gets melee toughness...so should we).

I'm not worried about having resists like other ranged professions, but would like a little melee toughness to mitigate the fact I have to shoot from 16m...

Issue 4) Grenades: Currently Grenades damage the user when caught in it's blast radius. Grenades also have a higher then normal HAM cost when compared to other weapons/specials of similar damage/range capabilities. Other Profession thrown/detonated weapons introduced in game come with lower or no HAM cost and specifically DO NOT damage the user when caught in the blast radius. This includes Combat Medic thrown items and Bounty Hunter/Smuggler Bomb Droids. Both of the previously mentioned items also have greater ranges and greater blast areas. It has been confirmed that occasionally the "ideal" range of a grenade is within the blast radius which translates into "if you want to best use your grenade, you HAVE TO take the same damage yourself PLUS deal with the high HAM cost (this is why they are called Suicide Bombs).

Suggested Solutions: Grenades need be revamped and readjusted. This should include increasing the range and radius, adding status effects, increasing the pack load (to 25 at least per pack) as well as making it so that the blast does not hurt the user.

Perfecto...

Issue 5) Consumable Heavy Weapons: Currently their lootable mods are still non-functional. They are often out-damaged due to poor speed and very poor accuracy. They are hard to find due to crafting difficulty. They put the Commando in a very vunerable position when they must stop motion to use them. And they are not worth the price when you balance cost vs. accuracy (not enough shots connect to make them worth the average cost).

Suggested Solutions: Revert Consumable Heavy Weapons back to using generic Heavy Weapon Speed and Heavy Weapon Accuracy skill mods. Consumable Heavy Weapons also need to be altered to AP3 (or at the very least AP2). Reversion will cause Bugged Heavy Weapon Skill Mod Attachments to once again work in game. Heavy Consumable weapons should be either increased to average of 60 or more shots, be reloadable (so we only have to slice them one time) or have higher Accuracy & Speed mods to compensate for price and rarity.

I think we should start this by asking for 1 or 2 of the materials requirements to be changed (or drastically simplified)to make these cheaper. Personally, i would rather buy6 10-shot launchers for 30k each than one 180k launcher.

Yes, I understand that the slicing is an issue, but I see more charges as simply being higher up-front expensethat makes itharder for people to afford launchers.

I think if they simply took out the grenade component requirement and replaced it with something else explosive (like petro fuel), it would make a world of difference.

Edit: Strike that...I wasn't thinking straight and that didn't make a damn bit of sense... I agree with the 60 charges as a temp solution until they can give us reloadable ones (which would rock...)

I agree on the AP and accuracy/speed mods. I think we should be more specific with numbers, however, and should ask that all just use a singular "Heavy Weapon Speed/Accuracy" mod, which is spread as follows: Accuracy +20 HW-I; +20 HW-II; +20 HW-III; +20 HW-IV; +30 Master.Speed +10 HW-I; +10 HW-II; +10 HW-III; +10 HW-IV; +20 Master.

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Message Edited by Daker-Naritus on 08-24-2004 04:17 PM

As a "non-Commando" you may not be fullyfamiliar withthe sticking points of each of our issues...I'll try tohighligh thembelow...

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Brilyn wrote:

As a non-Commando, I don't have a heck ofa lot to offer to your first 3 issues.

With regards Issue 4, I offer the explanation that "badly made" grenades are the cause of the low Ideal Range and accuracy issues. See this thread for info.

It's not about whether they are prefectly made or poorly made...it's more about the fact that they HURT THE USER...Whether or not the user is buff'd THEY HURT THE USER...this is the main issue of our Grenades...A perfectly made grenade will stillcostway too muchHAM (comparatively) and will still hurt theuser if caught in the blast radius (unlike Bomb Droids, CM Thrown Weapons and Scout Traps)...the other issues are secondary when it comes to grenades (which includes increasing the range and status effects)...They are tweaks we would appreciate being made to improve their usefulness.

With regards issue 5, "They are hard to find due to crafting difficulty" is inaccurate. Heavy Weapons are some of the easiest to make. They only require general Steel, Iron, Metal, Chrystalline Gemstone and Carbonate Ore, and all the same quantities of each. Compare this to the monster that is the T21, and you'll see that Heavy Weapons are unbelieveably simple to manufacture as a Weaponsmith. Why do Weaponsmiths whine about them? That, I don't know.

This is more in reference to the Rocket Launcher...Most WS's that I've discussed this with agree that the RL is one of the most complex weapons to craft ingame and therefore they don't do it very often...and when they do, average price is between 30K to 50K for, on average, a total of 30 shots...taking into consideration that even a perfectly crafted RL will not improve accuracy, of those 30 shots, on average (and on a good day) 18 will connect)...That's around 1.5 to 2K per shot in cost...now compare that to a non-consumable weapon that, via DPS, can achieve greater damage rates (the Power Hammer comes to mind)...This is where that issue comes from...Difficult to find due to being difficult to craft and not high on the Average Commando shopping list to stock up on due to the issues associated with it (cost vs. accuracy).

Regarding the accuracy issue, I'd also like to submit this thread for info. Again, I think "badly made" is the reason for some of the problems you all have with these weapons.

See above...Better Crafting does not equal better accuracy for our Consumables...

I certainly do not meant to downplay the issues you guys have, and you have some stuff that genuinely needs fixing.

But I think some stuff is just down to bad crafting.

Not really a Crafting issue at all...more of a "Bugs in the System" issues when comparing what we have to what others have...If you take other professions weapons, like the Bomb Droid for example, and compare them to our Commando Weapons, like our Grenades or Rocket Launcher, you get a strong sense that our weapons are not "working as intended"...

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Brilyn wrote:

< We did have one WS compare the creation process of the RL to the T21 and come to the conclusion that the RL was about twice as hard to create. >

The RL is quite different to all the other Heavy Weaponry, in every regard.

It takes a scope, the others don't. It doesn't take a stock, the others do. There's a heap of other differences.

As for 'twice as hard'...... that's pretty subjective.

Given that neither the RL nor any of it's subcomponents need *specific* materials, it's a piece of cake to make. Compare that to being *completely* unable to make T21s for over 8 weeks as a specific resource was neither in spawn, nor for sale *anywhere* I looked on Starsider.

The only issue with the RL, from a manufacturing perspective, is that I need to do a run of Protons before I can make *any* Rocket Launchers.

It's a minor blip on the annoyance radar for me. Other people have lower tolerances.

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Just curious.....

Since you are talking about how inexpensive Launchers are, exactly how much do you charge for them?

Last week I bought a flamer for 35k that will last me through 3 months of constant shooting.

I also bought a Rocket Launcher for 30k that has20 or so charges.

See the problem? Commando saying "hard to make" really means "Weaponsmiths charge the same or more for these than other weapons because of the difficulty in making them, and at 15-25 charges that is REALLY expensive."