Commando Archive
Thread: Current Commando Top 5 (revised on 4/7/2004)
Page 1 of 5
garvin
Sun Apr 04, 2004 9:12 pm
#1
Last Revised on 4/7/04
To be submitted as is to the Devs today. Please keep feedback coming for future updates to be submitted to the Devs on our ongoing issues.
1) Revamp the Heavy Acid Rifle. Remove ranged restriction, increase to AP3 (only Acid weapon currently in game without Armor Peircing), and combine with Flame Thrower Tree (see Launcher Pistol request for more details). HAR is weaker then FT, has no DoT, no AP, and suffers same restrictions as the FT yet costs more XP to grind the Acid Tree.
2) Revert Consumable Heavy Weapons back to using generic Heavy Weapon Speed and Heavy Weapon Accuracy skill mods. Consumable Heavy Weapons also need to be altered to AP3 (or at the very least AP2). Reversion will cause Bugged Heavy Weapon Skill Mod Attachments to once again work in game. Heavy Consumable weapons should be either increased to average of 60 or more shots, be reloadable (so we only have to slice them one time) or have higher Accuracy & Speed mods to compensate for price and rarity.
3) Grenades need to be altered and adjusted. Range needs to be increased to compare with Combat Medic (same principle), state effects added and HAM costs need to be lowered drastically (often incapps the user). Accuracy is extremely low when compared to damage done and range and should be raised to compensate. State effects can include Knockdown, stun, delay, blind, dizzy, and other. Higher level grenades should have some level of AP. Grenades also need to be increased to average 25 to 30 instead of current 5 per pack.
4) Melee Defenses need to be increased. Other elite professions, like Pistoleer, have higher Melee Defenses (Melee Defense and Def Vs) then Commando yet Commando is the only Ranged profession with all Specials have a Melee range restriction. Due to skill point cost and Melee Range restriction, Commando should have same or more Melee Defenses then any other Ranged Profession.
5) Launcher Pistol needs to be made a Heavy Weapon and not a Pistol. It needs Commando specials instead of using Pistol specials as well as LP speed and accuracy granted in a Commando tree of it's own (possibly replacing the HAR tree as mentioned above). AP needs to be added. TheLP needs to be adjusted to apply the proper amount of damage when compared toit's accuracy, theamount ofskill pts required to aquire the cert as well as it's speed. Currently this weapon is extermely low on balance.
6) Give Commandos Certification to Beam Rifle or DC-15 and Commando specials to use this weapon. Accompany this if possible with Commando ranged specials for this weapon. Another possible replacement for the HAR Tree.
7) Increase benefit of achieving Master Commando by increasing speed and accuracy grants as well as either moving /flamecone2 or adding a new Flame special to Master box.
8) Give Commandos new repeating weapon such as E-Web.
9) Give Commandos some type of "Dirty Tactics" Unarmed Specials to compliment the pre-req of the Unarmed Tree.
10) Give Commandos a Commando Toughness to help differentiate them from other Ranged Professions since Commando is the only Ranged Profession requiring a Melee pre-req. One method to accomplish this is to give Commandos Melee Mitigation along with Ranged Mitigation.
11) Until Commandos are provided with other non-bugged valid weapons, when adding a new gameplay dungeon/base content to SWG, please add some with low Heat Resists to compensate for the large volume of High Level high heat resist NPCs and Dungeons ingame.
12) Balance Damage Per Second in game between professions based on skill point cost. Current professions like Rifleman can out damage the "Heavy Weapon Specialists" when you compare DPS. Commandos use the second most skill points in the game, we need to be fighting at a level that justifies that cost.
13) Give Commandos a Ranged Weapon with ranged specials of our own.
2) Revert Consumable Heavy Weapons back to using generic Heavy Weapon Speed and Heavy Weapon Accuracy skill mods. Consumable Heavy Weapons also need to be altered to AP3 (or at the very least AP2). Reversion will cause Bugged Heavy Weapon Skill Mod Attachments to once again work in game. Heavy Consumable weapons should be either increased to average of 60 or more shots, be reloadable (so we only have to slice them one time) or have higher Accuracy & Speed mods to compensate for price and rarity.
3) Grenades need to be altered and adjusted. Range needs to be increased to compare with Combat Medic (same principle), state effects added and HAM costs need to be lowered drastically (often incapps the user). Accuracy is extremely low when compared to damage done and range and should be raised to compensate. State effects can include Knockdown, stun, delay, blind, dizzy, and other. Higher level grenades should have some level of AP. Grenades also need to be increased to average 25 to 30 instead of current 5 per pack.
4) Melee Defenses need to be increased. Other elite professions, like Pistoleer, have higher Melee Defenses (Melee Defense and Def Vs) then Commando yet Commando is the only Ranged profession with all Specials have a Melee range restriction. Due to skill point cost and Melee Range restriction, Commando should have same or more Melee Defenses then any other Ranged Profession.
5) Launcher Pistol needs to be made a Heavy Weapon and not a Pistol. It needs Commando specials instead of using Pistol specials as well as LP speed and accuracy granted in a Commando tree of it's own (possibly replacing the HAR tree as mentioned above). AP needs to be added. TheLP needs to be adjusted to apply the proper amount of damage when compared toit's accuracy, theamount ofskill pts required to aquire the cert as well as it's speed. Currently this weapon is extermely low on balance.
6) Give Commandos Certification to Beam Rifle or DC-15 and Commando specials to use this weapon. Accompany this if possible with Commando ranged specials for this weapon. Another possible replacement for the HAR Tree.
7) Increase benefit of achieving Master Commando by increasing speed and accuracy grants as well as either moving /flamecone2 or adding a new Flame special to Master box.
8) Give Commandos new repeating weapon such as E-Web.
9) Give Commandos some type of "Dirty Tactics" Unarmed Specials to compliment the pre-req of the Unarmed Tree.
10) Give Commandos a Commando Toughness to help differentiate them from other Ranged Professions since Commando is the only Ranged Profession requiring a Melee pre-req. One method to accomplish this is to give Commandos Melee Mitigation along with Ranged Mitigation.
11) Until Commandos are provided with other non-bugged valid weapons, when adding a new gameplay dungeon/base content to SWG, please add some with low Heat Resists to compensate for the large volume of High Level high heat resist NPCs and Dungeons ingame.
12) Balance Damage Per Second in game between professions based on skill point cost. Current professions like Rifleman can out damage the "Heavy Weapon Specialists" when you compare DPS. Commandos use the second most skill points in the game, we need to be fighting at a level that justifies that cost.
13) Give Commandos a Ranged Weapon with ranged specials of our own.
Message Edited by garvin on 04-07-2004 10:38 AM
LordSeckmoth
Sun Apr 04, 2004 9:47 pm
#2
garvin wrote:
Based on all of the suggestions so far in the previous Top 5 posta, Ihave revised ourTop 5 list as well as added more Top items to the list. They are listedin the priority of importance to our profession (based on numbers of requests and input received). The first 5 are the one's that the Devs would give priority too, the rest would go into a general pool of further requests of changes we would like made.
The Previous post was at:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=commando&message.id=53897
More Feedback again is welcome and requested. What would you add? What would you remove?What would you alter? Would you re-arrange to order of priority? and so on...I know some folks want a complete revamp, but if we can't get a revamp, these are the suggestions that would improve our profession. The Devs main request of our Top list is to be as concise and to the point as possible.
1) Revamp the Heavy Acid Rifle. Remove ranged restriction, increase to AP3 (only Acid weapon currently in game without Armor Peircing), and combine with Flame Thrower Tree (see Launcher Pistol request for more details). HAR is weaker then FT, has no DoT, no AP, and suffers same restrictions as the FT yet costs more XP to grind the Acid Tree. *Either AP3 or some sort of Resist Reducing Effect would be good, since AP doesn't seem to work some of the time*
2) Revert Consumable Heavy Weapons back to using generic Heavy Weapon Speed and Heavy Weapon Accuracy skill mods. Consumable Heavy Weapons also need to be altered to AP3 (or at the very least AP2). Reversion will cause Bugged Heavy Weapon Skill Mod Attachments to once again work in game. Heavy Consumable weapons should be increased to average of 60 or more to compensate for price and accuracy issues. *I'd personally rather have more damage and a better accuracy than 60 per HW, and I know because of creation time ammo packs might be out of the question, but why trash a RL tube because you don't have any more rockets? Just go get some more ammo, you wouldn't throw out a Laser Carbine if it had limited ammo, you'd but more power packs*
3) Grenades need to be altered and adjusted. Range needs to be increased to compare with Combat Medic (same principle), state effects added and HAM costs need to be lowered drastically (often incapps the user). State effects can include Knockdown, stun, delay, blind, dizzy, and other. Higher level grenades should have some level of AP. Grenades also need to be increased to average 25 to 30 instead of current 5 per pack. *Something near CM for the stack, the 25-30 seems right, but you forgot to mention accuracy.... we couldn't hit the broad side of a Krayt with these without better accuracy hehe*
4) Melee Defenses need to be increased. Other elite professions, like Pistoleer, have higher Melee Defenses (Melee Defense and Def Vs) then Commando yet Commando is the only Ranged profession with all Specials have a Melee range restriction. Due to skill point cost and Melee Range restriction, Commando should have same or more Melee Defenses then any other Ranged Profession. *Agreed 100%*
5) Launcher Pistol needs to be made a Heavy Weapon and not a Pistol. It needs Commando specials instead of using Pistol specials as well as LP speed and accuracy granted in a Commando tree of it's own (possibly replacing the HAR tree as mentioned above). AP needs to be added. *To be honest, I don't really like the LP very much, it's good idea in theory.... but doesn't feel Commando. I would prefer something like the DC-15 here if we could get it, a long range, faster firing, crowd clearing rifle*
6) Give Commandos Certification to Beam Rifle and Commando specials to use this weapon. Accompany this if possible with Commando ranged specials for this weapon. Another possible replacement for the HAR Tree. *Change the BR into the DC-15 maybe?*
7) Increase benefit of achieving Master Commando by increasing speed and accuracy grants as well as either moving /flamecone2 or adding a new Flame special to Master box. *Our accuracy at Master does seem quite low compared to other professions, especially with a large cooldown.... if a Pistoleer misses a shot, no biggie another comes in a second or so, but us.... not good. Now for adding a Flame Special, I wouldn't like to see this, it puts more emphasis on the FT, and I think we should steer away from that... boosted accuracy would be good enough if we could get another weapon.*
8) Give Commandos new repeating weapon such as E-Web. *E-Web for the GCW as Base Defense explacement, DC-15 for new tree*
9) Give Commandos some type of Unarmed Specials to compliment the pre-req of the Unarmed Tree. *Always been for the "Dirty" tactics idea, basically since I've been here, and put it in with the Grenades*
10) Give Commandos a Commando Toughness to help differentiate them from other Ranged Professions since Commando is the only Ranged Profession requiring a Melee pre-req. *I always thought we should get Ranged Mitigation 1and Melee Mitigation 3, showing we are quite set in both... we CAN shoot from a distance, but we are meant to get up close and hurt things. Maybe a 2/2 split? Or if they impliment a sort of Tank style toughness, we get what elite Melee get at 50% reduction.
11) When adding a new gameplay dungeon/base content to SWG, please add some with low Heat Resists to compensate for the large volume of High Level high heat resist NPCs and Dungeons ingame. *Again pressure on the FT being our only weapon, doing this could just make complaceny towards our other weapon requests, not good. Yes I do understand where you are coming from, but we need to focus on the fact that we could and do have a decent spread of damage types.... do not focus on the FT, but adding around it*
12) Balance Damage Per Second in game between professions based on skill point cost. Current professions like Rifleman can out damage the "Heavy Weapon Specialists" when you compare DPS. *This should be an overall thing to be covered in the Combat Balance. I think it is good to re-iterate it here and drive the point home. We use the second most skill points in the game, we need to be fighting at a level that justifies that cost.
13) Give Commandos a Ranged Weapon with ranged specials of our own. *Again the DC-15 lol..... I love that gun!
Hope that gives ya a few different perspecitve ideas Garvin I actually managed to stay lucid enough to post that, now I think I'll go pass out *JUST KIDDING!*..... or get really drunk *Am I really kidding here? lol *
I actually managed to stay lucid enough to post that, now I think I'll go pass out *JUST KIDDING!*..... or get really drunk *Am I really kidding here? lol *
thepunisher286
Sun Apr 04, 2004 9:56 pm
#3
garvin wrote:
Based on all of the suggestions so far in the previous Top 5 posta, Ihave revised ourTop 5 list as well as added more Top items to the list. They are listedin the priority of importance to our profession (based on numbers of requests and input received). The first 5 are the one's that the Devs would give priority too, the rest would go into a general pool of further requests of changes we would like made.
The Previous post was at:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=commando&message.id=53897
More Feedback again is welcome and requested. What would you add? What would you remove?What would you alter? Would you re-arrange to order of priority? and so on...I know some folks want a complete revamp, but if we can't get a revamp, these are the suggestions that would improve our profession. The Devs main request of our Top list is to be as concise and to the point as possible.
1) Revamp the Heavy Acid Rifle. Remove ranged restriction, increase to AP3 (only Acid weapon currently in game without Armor Peircing), and combine with Flame Thrower Tree (see Launcher Pistol request for more details). HAR is weaker then FT, has no DoT, no AP, and suffers same restrictions as the FT yet costs more XP to grind the Acid Tree.
YES! Absolutely! If my har isnt restricted to range, ap3, I would LOVE commando like never before. This is the top thing we need. If not, then at
least a differant weapon that is non depletable, has ap, ranged specials. Cant agree more on this.
2) Revert Consumable Heavy Weapons back to using generic Heavy Weapon Speed and Heavy Weapon Accuracy skill mods. Consumable Heavy Weapons also need to be altered to AP3 (or at the very least AP2). Reversion will cause Bugged Heavy Weapon Skill Mod Attachments to once again work in game. Heavy Consumable weapons should be increased to average of 60 or more to compensate for price and accuracy issues.
This is a given. It is only logical that this be done. Oh, and give us more speed.. like 10 more
3) Grenades need to be altered and adjusted. Range needs to be increased to compare with Combat Medic (same principle), state effects added and HAM costs need to be lowered drastically (often incapps the user). State effects can include Knockdown, stun, delay, blind, dizzy, and other. Higher level grenades should have some level of AP. Grenades also need to be increased to average 25 to 30 instead of current 5 per pack.
Another good way to make good use of weapons. The usage of grenades would increase as they would give a desireable outcome of state changes and such.
4) Melee Defenses need to be increased. Other elite professions, like Pistoleer, have higher Melee Defenses (Melee Defense and Def Vs) then Commando yet Commando is the only Ranged profession with all Specials have a Melee range restriction. Due to skill point cost and Melee Range restriction, Commando should have same or more Melee Defenses then any other Ranged Profession.
Sort of agree with more melee defenses. More than any? Who knows, but one thing is Certain, that we need an big far increase in defenses.
5) Launcher Pistol needs to be made a Heavy Weapon and not a Pistol. It needs Commando specials instead of using Pistol specials as well as LP speed and accuracy granted in a Commando tree of it's own (possibly replacing the HAR tree as mentioned above). AP needs to be added.
Would eliminate the possibility of pistoleers dabling novice for an uber LP. If the HAR could become what point 1 asks for, I wouldnt want it replaced, but i say we keep HAR and this as well. Combing HAR and Flame would leave an open tree.. an LP tree.
6) Give Commandos Certification to Beam Rifle and Commando specials to use this weapon. Accompany this if possible with Commando ranged specials for this weapon. Another possible replacement for the HAR Tree.
Every ranged proffesion should have a weapon thats energy and can use well. We should get this anyways. Good speed, good damage, but balanced.
7) Increase benefit of achieving Master Commando by increasing speed and accuracy grants as well as either moving /flamecone2 or adding a new Flame special to Master box.
Sure y not
8) Give Commandos new repeating weapon such as E-Web.
After we get ranged guns
9) Give Commandos some type of Unarmed Specials to compliment the pre-req of the Unarmed Tree.
Like "Neck punch" or "Eye Gouge" - Commando shouldnt have pretty melee moves like tka but effective none the less .. maybe blind and stun head attack. Brutal and graphical? Maybe. Awsome sounding? Most definetly.
10) Give Commandos a Commando Toughness to help differentiate them from other Ranged Professions since Commando is the only Ranged Profession requiring a Melee pre-req.
Yes.
11) When adding a new gameplay dungeon/base content to SWG, please add some with low Heat Resists to compensate for the large volume of High Level high heat resist NPCs and Dungeons ingame.
If we get ranged weapons, it should be a problem. But this is a bonus
12) Balance Damage Per Second in game between professions based on skill point cost. Current professions like Rifleman can out damage the "Heavy Weapon Specialists" when you compare DPS.
Big yes, but this should be in he overall combat revamp. A Big balancing act needs to be done between the proffesions. It defeats the porpose of being pistoleer when rifleman can be just as fast. Rifleman, powerfull attacks, not as fast as carbines. Pistoleer, very fast attacks, not as powerfull as carbines. Carbines. In the middle between speed and damage - Over all, these 3 proffesions should have potentialy equal dps or kill probability. BH should be increased as well. I have BH and I get my rear end handed to me a lot.
13) Give Commandos a Ranged Weapon with ranged specials of our own.
Si senior!
This NEEDS to follow throught. I dont think it gets summed up any better than this. Garvin, good luck working things out with the devs to get into an agreement on what we get on our revamp.
Message Edited by thepunisher286 on 04-04-2004 09:59 PM
fareone
Sun Apr 04, 2004 10:07 pm
#4
plas master scout ..( we got lots of skill points for other profesions, i f we have master scout i belive they can change like this.)
Message Edited by fareone on 04-05-2004 12:10 AM
Ster
Sun Apr 04, 2004 10:29 pm
#5
I agree with the changes entirely. I have a small bug or issue to report that is not extremely big but should be noted. When using flame cone 2, it will only hit its initial target and no other targets in the cone range unless the others are agroed to you. It will show the numbers above the other's head and they will have a DOT, but the HAM will not show the hits.
KangX
Sun Apr 04, 2004 10:34 pm
#6
The list looks good. The only thing I see is the issues in the top 5 seem a bit less consice then they could be.
I rewrote them below in my order of importance
1) Unified Weapon Skill: Make all non-grenade Commando weapons (Consumables, Launcher Pistol, Flame Thrower and Acid Rilfe) use Heavy Weapon Skill in place of the current various skills.
2) Increase Charges on Consumables: The current price per shot of consumable weapons seriously curtails the effectiveness of these weapons in day to day use. Doubling, Tripling, or more of the number of grenade charges and the doubling of charges forconsumable launchers is needed to make these usable by Commandos as part of thier standard arsenal.
3) Front Line Defenses: Commandos, due to our specials and based on our requirements (unarmed), spend most of our time inmelee range of our targets. More so than any ranged profession Commandos need "melee" defenses. Though defenses on par with a true brawler class are not called for, an upgrade to at least the level of riflemen or pistoleers is urgently needed.
4) Grenade Mechanics: Thrown Weapon Accuracy and Thrown Weapon Speed need a boost to prevent grenades from merely being pretty light shows that miss more often than they effect the target.
5) Weapon Balancing: Many of the Commando weapons need work (stats wise) to bring them up to a usable status. The HAR is the only acid weapon in the game without armor piercing and suffers from the same restrictions as the Flamethrower(the difference in damage type not overcoming it's other short falls). The HAM cost, range mods and effects of grenades needs to be reevaluated, possibly including; adding state changes, decrease in HAM cost, positive range mods beyond out to 30m or better, replacing one of the many "Blast" damage grenades with "Stun" damage. The Consumable Launchers all need Heavy armor piercing.
I think this lays the issues out a bit better.
Xavien Dusk, Master Commando, Radiant
KeziEka
Sun Apr 04, 2004 10:36 pm
#7
Top 5 looks good.
Good hearing from you too, LordS. Get better soon.
fareone
Sun Apr 04, 2004 10:53 pm
#8
----
I agree with the changes entirely. I have a small bug or issue to report that is not extremely big but should be noted. When using flame cone 2, it will only hit its initial target and no other targets in the cone range unless the others are agroed to you. It will show the numbers above the other's head and they will have a DOT, but the HAM will not show the hits.
-------
same to me
most time thay have fire but no demage
is it normal?
Message Edited by fareone on 04-05-2004 12:54 AM
xxNaftxx
Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:31 am
#9
I read galvin and lordS posts and agree with both of them, any or all of those would increase the fun factor of the commandos' game 110%.
I would like to see the HAR be revamped so we could insert modules, sigh or have modules crafted for them, a poison module, e-web, grenades, acid module, electric discharge moduleetc. Originally we were supposed to be able to craft our own grenades, I dont see why a commando can't modify their own weapons, sigh or have someone craft one with a different damage base. "Look here soldier, your going to planet X, they are all immune to flame, but it is our only weapon, just deal with it, I would give you a acid rifle but well it is a poor weapon". We should be more adaptable being 'shock troopers'.
Launcher pistol should get atleast ONE special attack, just throw it into tactics tree. Not sure what it should be at this point, but there should be something. More of a commando tactic than a whole necessary tree. "Here soldier is your launcher pistol, just aim and destroy" So no commando in history of swg universe ever devised some 'shot' or special manuever with a gun that shoots 4 rockets at a target? Concussion, stun, KD all come to mind. 4 explosions underneath a target should knock it off its feet. Large creatures should be immune or get a bonus resist imho.
Commandos are supposed to be the lords of destruction, grouped or solo atleast our weapons should be the most destructive.
HootGibson
Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:19 am
#10
It sounds fine but!!! I just think that point number 6 is the most important one and I give the lord right in
replacing the br with a dc-15. I mean Lucas art is makeing a game "Republic Commando" and they do not run around with flamethrowers and acidrifles. Thats just not starwars like.... we know it! and they know it! lets make sure they change it instead of going silient into the night....
Give usthat new weapon and forget the launcher pistol who wants it anyway....
Colonel Hoot Gibson
-Corbanis Master Cooamdo-
Skeptic666
Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:42 am
#11
THese look good if no one has any thing else other then we should get a lil terrian neg. Lets get these submitted!
Curxcha
Mon Apr 05, 2004 8:51 am
#12
Looks good 
One thing I'd like to add tho. We still need unarmed IV for some wierd reason. That should pay off indefences atleast thats better then any ofthe other ranged profs.Not only to get as good as pistoleer.
About the AP I can only say YES! WTB, I need and jesus, how can anyone imagine a commando with a weapon thats not armor piercing?!
RazerWolf
Mon Apr 05, 2004 9:38 am
#13
I'd go with 1, 2, 3, 10 and 13. Don't need to add anything to 'em though.
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