Commando Archive

Hmm, just had a thought. Last Ditch with a Plasma Flamer would have probably a similar effect to the Predator's suicide-nuke...

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Merc93 wrote:

StarrNick,

The only acceptable resolution is to replace our weapon certs, and "preferrably the specials too, as the arguments for that change are weak as well, as I've previously demonstrated. If they can't do this or give us some set of awesome skills we can use in combat in their place like everyone else, I'm washing my hands of this game, and I'm out for good.

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I believe that Helios said that our weapon certs will be back in effect. I think this is what you mean with "replace our weapon certs." So SOE did what you suggest.

Now I don't disagree with you about some specials. Or some more meaningful unarmed skill improvments like UNARMED speed/Accuracy/Damage mods in addition to the GENERAL ones. And a unique ranged special would be appreciated.

I'm not defending SOE here at all. This process is not what was advertised and everyone will pay a big price for it when it is forced to live on 5/5/05. Does anyone SERIOUSLY believe that a meaningful internal testing system was run on the CU and NOONE in that testing noticed that Launcher Pistols and Massasi Knucklers gave the wrong XP? How EXACTLY did these alleged testers level up a commando when there are NO ways to get heavy weapons XP?!

If they had done the alpha/sandbox tester approach, this wouldn't have been released with these glaring errors and created the concern it has.

But that's not how SOE operates. They spent their time overlaying SWG on EQ2. That gives them economies of scale in their product line. But it's not giving the customer the bill of goods that SOE sold those customers.

I'll wait to see what goes Live Five Five Oh Five (5/5/05). Maybe I'll be surprised. There are good ideas in here (reduced pre-reqs, non-consumable heavy weapons, longer ranged ranged weapons, working skill mods, grenades that don't kill me AND give stat effects) but if the mechanics are so messed up because their effort is on colors and art and pictures and icons and special effects "flickering" issues, this will be very ugly.

"Helios should get the Golden Communication Award. Every Dev should act like you does, Helios. Are you an angel? "

I regard Helios more as Lord Helios, the Sun-Dev...

As the definition of "Helios" is: The sun god, son of Hyperion, depicted as driving his chariot across the sky from east to west daily.

He certainly brings light to us when we're in the dark...

Btw - as for internal testing goes...no idea, but they may have been testing the rudamentry combat balances rather than grinding up each profession and looking at each and every bug. Although some things should've been, in my opinion, fixed prior to CU being pushed to live...this may just be the case. Having an Alpha as originally thought, would have been very beneficial from my point of view...and couldve added a few more vital weeks to testing...

Merc...hold on there a bit bro, you're still acting as if the weapon cert system as it stands now will be final...despite REPEATED responses from myself and Helios that it is in fact, not working as it should be.

The role of commando will be exactly played like how we saw in the documentation/early testing prior to this new change of weapon certification.

Also...we ARE focussing on those issues - why do you think theres stickied focus commando threads on bugs AND experiences in playing a commando.

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Merc93 wrote:

A bug is typically an error in the coding. A design flaw is technically an undocumented feature. I couldn't tell you why SOE classifies it this way. I hope everyone hasn't lost sight of the huge glaring problem that faces us all with this upgrade as a Commando Community. There's an elephant standing in the living room, and we should take care not ignore it and participate in the "great sweep under the rug". I vote we focus on the issue of weapon certs, specials, mods and the like as these most directly effect us.

I am interested in learning what has been decided on the complete lack of anything for us Commandos. Can someone please explain this? Can someone tell me what the advantage is to playing a Commando now? Someone? Anyone? Did the devs scrap this weapon availibility nonsense, or are they actually planning on going through with this? If so, when do I get my Lightsaber? That's right, I'm gonna be a Lightsaber swingin' Wookiee strip-tease, because thats as sensible as anything being discussed on CU I've seen. It start out great. What happened? I demand my lightsaber now....never the Jedi and all their hard work, I want one too. Why not? Han Solo uses Lukes in ESB for a moment, why not let us all have one? Because that would destroy most of the appeal for being Jedi, right, so what's the difference between them and us? Why should everyone get our weapons when that's all we got? Tell ya what, while we're at it, let's just create 2 classes: Combat and Non-Combat and let's just dispense with the names shall we?

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1) I vote we focus on the issue of weapon certs, specials, mods and the like as these most directly effect us.

That's what we have been doing...Our certs are safe...Our weapons CREATE our specails...Our mods have been pumped up and /bugs filed.

2) Can someone please explain this? Can someone tell me what the advantage is to playing a Commando now?

Read my post at the top of page 5...It's all spelled out very simply...

3) Did the devs scrap this weapon availibility nonsense, or are they actually planning on going through with this?

Commandos WILL NOT share their weapons with anyone else...because of the way our weapons work, our weapons are the exception. Repeat...Only Commandos will be able to use/equip/fire Commando weapons.

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Merc93 wrote:

Garvin,

I agree with your last reply to me. (don't know how to comment another post). There's no argument there. I make my case on the basis of the weapon availibity decision. All of our specials were moved to the weapons we use, leaving us with weapon certs and a handful of mods. Okay, this way, we can agree that we are pretty cool at this point, save that if we want to apply "specials" we have to switch weapons now to do it. Recall that fast switching was deemed a bug and written out. So we now have a slower exchange time between specials than the old combat system.

Man you don't understand you can fir bodyshot with the a RL and get both the body shot and the Rl special at the same time. You don't have to switch weapno you can use pistoller, smuggler rifleman specuials with your commando weapons!!! No switching neccessary unless you want to switch weapons.

I've noted the wind-up on some of these specials in testing, and it is faster than switching between weapons. So, even though the original template for the CU that went to open beta was really cool after I got used to the idea, it does, in fact have it's problems. Another issue, as I pointed out in the Combat Upgrade and Commando, The FAQ is that as a stacker profession, our mods do't account for the classifications arlready in practice. For example, if my big iincentive to play Commando is to use it a stacker profession, then I respectuflly point out that virtually all of our weapons are classified as "Heavy Weapons" and not Rifles, Carbines, and Pistols. In theory, it sounds good, in Praxis, the problem is that we would be better with a Rifle, etc than our signature special weapons given the collective mods.

Another player would still be faster and more accurate with his weapon, resulting in a higher DPS in actual practice than we could achieve with our weaponry and mods. This puts us back to where we started. Additionally, the average penalties on the average heavy weapon for use outside the ideal range is around -119 or so. The stacker mods give about +45 heavy Weapon _+60/80 General stacked that gives us +105-125 apprx. -119 leaves us at....-14 to hit up to +6. That doesn't include any penalties for armor, terrain, etc. That's pretty lousy if you ask me. That means in plan english that in most cases we are likely to miss our targets, just like before, while others are plugging away at us. Now that was how it was before the weapon availibity blunder, that you yourself said you had a "HUGE concern" over.....

Now that everyone has access to our weapons, and thus the effectivelymaking them all Commando/Rifleman, whatever whithout having to grind it, can you please tell again ,what sets us apart? If this has changed, please inform, but at present, I have to stand by original argument. I would be okay with the first template you mention above, but not after this "weapon availibility" thing. No way. Somebody reach in that bag there...hand me my Lightsaber. Yeah, it's the one that says Bad MuthaF#(ker on it. There's no difference here in concepts. Let's not over=look it.

And once again commando weapons will be cert'd only to commandos!!!! Its not fixed yet on TC but they have told us it is coming hopefully next patch.

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Message Edited by Novock on 04-15-2005 05:57 PM

Message Edited by Novock on 04-15-2005 05:59 PM

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Merc93 wrote:

Okay, *whew*

[wipes sweat from brow]

I caught up with the everyone's comments here finally. This is a huge relief. I though for sure my days would numbered here. If't s real relief to know they aren't going through with that decision after waiting all this time. So why all the talk still about weapon certs and combat levels? Guess I'm confused now.

Many weapons will still work solely off combat level rather than skillbox, just not ours. What it's looking like is Master certs will still be skillbox cert'd and weapons that are looted schematics like the Geo Blaster, DE-10, Berzerker Rifle Scythe Blade and so on will remain skillbox cert'd.

Garvin, I would still like to hear what you might have to say about my above remarks regarding mods and the new (?) CU Commando template, if you don't mind addressing them.

[turns walks back to a bench and sits on an M-1 firing device wired to an ...]

*BOOM!*

"Oh, Ben Kenobi, you're dead too? "

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Helios_SOE wrote:

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jefmes wrote:

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Helios_SOE wrote:

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Darka-ce wrote:
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So if the particle beam cannon is x2xx and lvl 22. Does that mean if im x2xx and lvl 19 i cant use it?
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Yes, that's exactly what that means.

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That's what it means, but it would currently be considered a bug if that happens. You should report any instances where a weapon calls for a level and a skillbox that you can't wield when you get that skillbox.

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That doesn't sound like a bug to me - it should be x AND y, not x OR y, in my opinion at least!

You say "currently" though Helios...does that mean "currently the way it's setup it's a bug, but it should be this other way eventually?"

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It means that that's what we're shooting for at this moment in time, but it might change depending on at least 500 variables I don't know about yet. And if it does change, I don't want you to hold a plasma flamer to my face for telling you something wrong (even though it was the most up to date info at the timeI wrote the message).

That's what "currently" means 95% of the time I say it. Currently, anyway.

Helios - Master Politician

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Helios_SOE wrote:

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jefmes wrote:

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Helios_SOE wrote:

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Darka-ce wrote:
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So if the particle beam cannon is x2xx and lvl 22. Does that mean if im x2xx and lvl 19 i cant use it?
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Yes, that's exactly what that means.

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That's what it means, but it would currently be considered a bug if that happens. You should report any instances where a weapon calls for a level and a skillbox that you can't wield when you get that skillbox.

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That doesn't sound like a bug to me - it should be x AND y, not x OR y, in my opinion at least!

You say "currently" though Helios...does that mean "currently the way it's setup it's a bug, but it should be this other way eventually?"

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It means that that's what we're shooting for at this moment in time, but it might change depending on at least 500 variables I don't know about yet. And if it does change, I don't want you to hold a plasma flamer to my face for telling you something wrong (even though it was the most up to date info at the timeI wrote the message).

That's what "currently" means 95% of the time I say it. Currently, anyway.

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