Commando Archive

Ok, I thought I'd weigh in on this one. I've been a Commando, Smuggler, DE, and a Weaponsmith

First things first, I agree that the Rocket Launcher in particular needs a massive improvement on accuracy and firing conditions (HAM and other parameters already outlined).

I also agree that the droids should have been cert-ed for Commandos - it really makes sense for them to have access to a demolition style droid.

But one thing I have to disagree on is the ease in which people think that R3's are made. Lets take a look at them and rocket launchers for a sec.

Rocket Launcher:

1. Requires 5 units of Inert Petrochemical
2. Requires 3 units of Copper
3. Requires 3 units of Low Grade Ore
4. Requires 5 units of Metal
5. Requires 10 units of Reactive Gas
6. Requires 1 Blaster Power-handler Enhancement (Optional) (Not that anyone would kryat a rocket launcher - but you could )

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Elioi wrote:

Ok, I thought I'd weigh in on this one. I've been a Commando, Smuggler, DE, and a Weaponsmith

First things first, I agree that the Rocket Launcher in particular needs a massive improvement on accuracy and firing conditions (HAM and other parameters already outlined).

I also agree that the droids should have been cert-ed for Commandos - it really makes sense for them to have access to a demolition style droid.

But one thing I have to disagree on is the ease in which people think that R3's are made. Lets take a look at them and rocket launchers for a sec.

Rocket Launcher:

1. Requires 150 units of Iron
2. Requires 40 units of Metal
3. Requires 25 units of Metal
4. Requires 4 identical Blaster Power-handler
5. Requires 170 units of Steel
6. Requires 8 identical Projectile Feed Mechanism
7. Requires 5 identical Proton Grenade
8. Requires 2 identical Weapon Scope

Blaster power handler needs:

1. Requires 5 units of Inert Petrochemical
2. Requires 3 units of Copper
3. Requires 3 units of Low Grade Ore
4. Requires 5 units of Metal
5. Requires 10 units of Reactive Gas
6. Requires 1 Blaster Power-handler Enhancement (Optional) (Not that anyone would kryat a rocket launcher - but you could )

Projectile Feed Mech needs:

1. Requires 10 units of Steel
2. Requires 7 units of Metal
3. Requires 1 Projectile Feed Mechanism Enhancement (Optional)

Proton Grenade needs:

1. Requires 10 units of Metal
2. Requires 15 units of Steel
3. Requires 1 units of Polymer
4. Requires 3 units of Crism Siliclastic Ore
5. Requires 1 Light Warhead Mechanism
6. Requires 1 Medium Warhead Mechanism
7. Requires 1 Warhead Stabilizing Device
8. Requires 1 Warhead Fusing Mechanism
9. Requires 1 Enhanced Destructive Pulse Channeling (Optional)

Weapon Scope needs:

1. Requires 12 units of Metal
2. Requires 6 units of Inert Petrochemical
3. Requires 3 units of Metal
4. Requires 4 units of Gemstone
5. Requires 2 units of Copper

Ok, this is a pretty big list! Gotta give it to Weaponsmiths - they've got a lot of work to do on making a RL. Thats 8 factory runs to produce one item!

Total resources (including all the sub-components):

500 Steel
346 Metal
235 Reactive Gas
150 Iron
105 Inert Gas
55 Amorphous Gemstone
52 Low Grade Ore
50 Radioactive
46 Copper
35 Polymer
32 Inert Petrochemical
25 Carbonate Ore
15 Crism Siliclastic Ore
8 Gemstone

Now lets look at an R3 droid - the ones people are saying you should get 5 to a crate for 30k for:

R3 Droid:

. Requires 90 units of Chemical
2. Requires 190 units of Chemical
3. Requires 1 R3 ADV Droid Chassis
4. Requires 1 Combat-Capable Socket Cluster (Optional)
5. Requires 1 Combat-Capable Socket Cluster (Optional)
6. Requires 1 Droid Defensive Module Harness (Optional)
7. Requires 1 Droid Defensive Module Harness (Optional)

Now that doesn't look that bad does it? But lets take a close look at those sub components:

R3 Adv Chassis:

1. Requires 150 units of Chemical
2. Requires 110 units of Chemical
3. Requires 1 Advanced Droid Frame Unit
4. Requires 2 identical Advanced Droid Brain
5. Requires 1 Manipulator Arm Package Set
6. Requires 1 Advanced Droid Motive System
7. Requires 1 Droid Sensor Package

Whoah, wait...we've got another set of sub components! lets take a closer look at them before going to the rest of the R3:

Advanced Droid Brain:

1. Requires 25 units of Copper
2. Requires 10 units of Inert Gas
3. Requires 10 units of Siliclastic Ore
4. Requires 12 units of Chemical
5. Requires 4 identical Electronics GP Module
6. Requires 4 identical Electronics Memory Module

Holy crap! we have another two ident required sub components in just this one alone!

Advanced droid Motive System:

1. Requires 15 units of Copper
2. Requires 15 units of Metal
3. Requires 3 units of Steel
4. Requires 5 units of Chemical
5. Requires 5 units of Low Grade Ore
6. Requires 1 Control Unit

Advanced Manip Arm set requires resources, two different types of ore, but no subcomponents, we'll skip it, as well as the frame unit(same reason)

The Advanced Droid Sensor package is the same, we'll skip that too.

Wow, now with the Chasis out of the way - the rest should be easy right? Not exactly lets look at the combat clusters, we'll leave the defence harnesses out.

Combat Capable Socket Cluster:

1. Requires 30 units of Metal
2. Requires 1 Droid Brain
3. Requires 15 units of Metal
4. Requires 7 units of Metal
5. Requires 7 units of Chemical
6. Requires 7 units of Low Grade Ore
7. Requires 1 Combat Capable Service Modules (Optional)
8. Requires 1 Combat Capable Service Modules (Optional)
9. Requires 1 Combat Capable Service Modules (Optional)

Ok, more Droid Brains! lets just say we ran these with the other ones required that brings us up to 4 required for each droid.

Now remember we need to fill up each droid with those Tollium Gas needing detonation modules! 6 needed for 1 R3.

Ok so to produce 1 R3 Det Droid we are going to need a total of more resources then a Rocket Launcher, and we'll need 9 factory runs....hmmm.

So essentially we need more factory runs and more resources to make an R3 droid then a Rocket Launcher. Also bear in mind that you will get more then one shot out of a rocket launcher, whereas one use of the R3 and it's gone forever. So essentially if you are finding packs of 5 R3 droids out there for 30k, it should be pretty easy to find a crate of 5 or 6 rocket launchers for the same price, right?

Now the Mouse droids are a different story entirely, very easy to make and mass produce, and from the numbers i've seen they are way overpowered. But you shouldn't have to worry so much about people mass producing crates of R3's and practically giving them away.

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Couple of misconceptions.... I thinkthree different ideas are getting crossed in this thread:

(1) Mouse Droid bombs do 7k blast damage (more than rocket launcher shots), are selling for for less than 5k a piece (I've seen them for around 2k), and are 100% accurate.

(2) Cheap R3 Droids made with cheap resources are being sold for 5k a piece or less, and do over 10k blast damage with 100% accuracy.

(3) Good R3 droids with good resources are the expensive ones, and those have been tested to do 50,000 damage by some people, with 100% accuracy.

What you are saying about the number of resources used for R3 droids vs. Rocket Launchers may be accurate, but it doesn't change the facts that:

(1) Mouse droid bombs (the ones most of the people in this thread are really complaining about) are selling cheaper than rocket launchers, are more accurate than rocket launchers, do more damage than rocket launchers, and most importantly have a 17m AOE blast radius. THIS is what mose people here are complaining about, considering that these droids can be deployed at 150m, and can be rapid-fire tamed from factory crates to attack mobs and turrets that can't attack back.

When you consider the fact that a master commando with a rocket launcher only hits 50% of the time while kneeling within 65m of their target, and the fact that shooting a rocket launcher drains 25% of the user's HAM pool, you will see that charges are not that important...in any given battle taking down a turret or at-st (the only real uses for blast damage), the commando will probably only get off 1-3 shots before he dies. Additionally, almost every single rocket launcher I have ever bought costs (around) 2k or more per shot (total cost / charges), with that 50% accuracy. Some DEs are selling mouse droids that do over 7k damage with 100% accuracy for that same 2k.

The issue isn't resources, its power, accuracy, and price. Regardless of the resources, the fact remains that these things are more powerful, more accurate, and selling cheaper than rocket launchers. When you take misses and firing range into account, you are also getting more bang for you buck from these droid bombs.

People all over in-game and on the boards are all talking about the huge damage they have been able to do to turrets with these bombs. Commandos, the class whoare supposedly the "turret and at-st killing specialists," have been asking for improved blast damage to do the kind of blast damage these things are doing for months now (pretty much since the game came out). Regardless of the resources, they are displacing commandos role in the game. That is why we are fighting them and their blast damage.

(2) Yes, people did start by using cheap R3 numbers, but that is only because those are the droids they actually found for sale when they were trying to do some initial tests. Those 5k R3 bombs (only weak 26 effectiveness)were used only to prove a point: The mouse droids can be experimented to be much better than the 26 effectiveness bombs (to 40), are much easier to make, and will be much cheaper than the 5k R3 models. Those numbers were used to set the initial ceiling on what these bombs are capable of.

In truth, the issue revolves around 7k damage cheap mouse droid bombs, and expensive 50k damage R3 bombs.

Some commandos bought some cheap R3 droids to test. Yesthey took a lot of resources to make. However, they were still high damage bombs, and still selling for peanuts.THAT was the point. Additionally when you take misses and range into account, they were probably just as effective as rocket launchers per credit spent (especially considering that 90% of weaponsmiths refuse to make launchers because they are not worth the effort).

(3) The best R3 bombsmight be expensive...that is true. Yes they are single shot...that is true. However, consider this: Most of the biggest turrets have around 100k HAM. If you could do 50k HAM damage to a turret(half of the turrets HAM pool)from 150m away without aggroing any of the mobs surrounding the turret...how much would that be worth to you? A little more than a rocket launcher that forces you to kneel within the turret's firing range and miss 50% of the time? What about a series of R3 bombs that would allow you to take out a turret in 3-4 hits from 150m without aggroing any of the mobs surrounding the base?

The point isn't resources... The point is that these things are such effective blast weapons that they are already displacing commandos as the "necessary" class to have around when attacking turrets and at-sts.

Additionally, even some of the best R3 bombs have been selling MUCH cheaper than their resource requirements would lead you to believe. I have seensome near max quality R3'sgoing for less than 10k a piece. 10k credits for 50k damage is worlds better than even the luckiest commandos could hope for I think...

The points remain:

(1) These things are selling for cheap compared to the 100% accurate, high damage they do; and

(2) They are already displacing commandos last, and only remaining, advantage and role in this game...destroying turrets and at-sts.

It may defy logic, it may not make sense, but it is nonetheless happening...