Commando Archive
Thread: Combat Balance
Skwall
Thu Jun 17, 2004 2:01 am
#79
TKA Suggestions:
Introduction:
It would be great if we knew what the new HAM system would be so we could base our ideas off of that.
It all boils down to the combat revamp(CR) really. All of these speculations and rumors we hear could be thrown away if the devs gave us an idea of what the combat revamp will bring other than "balance." They want to "balance" the game, so why don't they inform us more so we could make better decisions right? not sure many who could argue against that.
Given: Armor, Weapon Stats, Defenses/Offenses, Buffs, and HAM is being rebalanced and changed, there isn't a whole lot we can base our reasoning off of. So...here's what we do know as of now that can hopefully be kept in mind for the future.
Proposed TKA: Possibly the lowest DPS because we should be the quickest, disarming, status affecting profession in my opinion. We should be able to Disarm the oponent momentarily (ex. Panic Shot, Warcry, but diff) and let others in the group rail on the opponent. We should be able to apply the most status changes in the brawler class in my opinion. Bleeds/Dizzy/Intimidate/Defense Lowering Move/Lower Opponent Accuracy. Yes Bleeds are possible on live, seen it while spamming uh3 (be cool if we knew why or how). We should not hit the hardest but should be able to target certain pools of the HAM, and help out the group a lot.
Armor :
CR Rumors - Supposedly composite is getting nerfed (lower resists and possibly new vulnerabilities, RIS is supposed to be REALLY good after CR as well as Mandolorian. TKA Armor Pre-CR-Given that in order for a TKA in order to be able to spam specials and have a good suit of armor on, they must be buffed by a doctor and have mind enhancements or more commonly food.
TKA armor concept - TKA armor should be low encumberance due to the rapid nature and speedat which teras kasi masters can execute specials. I believe that because we are quick agile fighters that can not be constrained in armor for combat should have a helmet and a long robe or something of that nature that allows for movement. Sortof the lines of this suit (yes i know it is imperial faction armor but its just an idea that i would very much like to see). And it looks sweet. Just a concept of what i mean.
http://www.starwars.com/databank/organization/emperorsroyalguard/index.html
TKA Armor Implementaion- Depends on the new HAM system; but given the way TKA are now,the actual stats would be better than composite (post revamp) but worse than RIS and Mandolorian, for the following reasoning. The TKA armor would have to be earned/looted schematic through a series of quests from an NPC Quest system, dungeon etc......should rely on time of being mTKA tho. Composite should require no cert due to higher end "commercial armor" and "TKA" should come in above Composite followed by RIS and Mandolorian armor resists wise.
Overall, doubt it will occur, seeing as Mandolorian armor is already technically "profession armor." So if we were to get a certain type of armor, it would most likely fall under composite.
Damage Type/Moves:
Pre-CR DMG: We're hurting with this one damage type no matter what way you look at it. People say its a price we have to pay but honestly, why? TKAs are not PVP kings (fencer) or PVE kings (Swordsman) for that matter. PVP is tough being a mTKA, fighting players w/ buffs, 80% kinetic armor, and medical healing abilities is pretty discouraging. PVP strategy is /unarmedheadhit1, (where's 2 btw?). PVE is good except for the Elders and mobs w/ high kinetic resists and Huge HAMS.So, where do we fall in?
Not to mention AP1 w/ a Vk. (People still complain about us having VKs).
Proposed new damage type: We coulddefinetly use another damage type, denying is plain ignorance. Either we get a different DMG type (Heat/Stun) or they rebalance the mobs, PVP armor, and everything that has super high kinetic resists. Fix UC2 &UC3.
Proposed NO new damage type: Make TKA master bad@$$, about it. We only get one damage type and are forced to be railing on a mob for freaking ever, you better up the damage or defense or something.
New Moves:
Numb/Block Circulation Moves: By focusing precise pressure on certain body areas (hehe) TKA are able to cut off circulation or numb the opponent, hindering them from kiting. Hell i dunno could intimidate in the sense that they are not able to attack normally.
Bleed Moves:
Annurism: A localized, pathological, blood-filled dilatation of a blood vessel caused by a disease or weakening of the vessel's wall, due to hit to the juggular (Mind Bleed?)
Hemmorage: "
Drop Kick: yes drop kick, how tight would that be? if they're kiting you, you drop kick them. hah. Take place of a lunge or some stupid one. Could definetly knock down a player from 25+ but the TKA would take damage and a delay, while the opponent is delayed/immobile for a short time. NOT DIZZY/KD, they can still fire at you, but can not move.
Species Moves:
Why not, if you can do it great. Like for Zabraks, (Darth Maul Head kick in Ep. 1) would be sweet. And what about a Wookie or Trandoshan move that'd be brutal.
Weapons/Content:
New Weapon: Self Explanatory, be in balance w/ CR and other weapons, Possibly higher ham than the regular Vk due to an alternate damage type. Could be a new Vk, glove, gaunlet, bracer, hell i dunno a ring that makes your fist more powerful or something.
Content: A quest, dungeon, themepark, something that an NPC can allow you to loot/aquire the schematic or loot of TKA armor, new skill tapes, weapons, components and enhancers, New Acquired MOVES and resists possibly due totraining such as species moves, DOT VKS (Nym's Elite are dropping these on live). And in order to fit the theme of TKA, actually have them interact w/ jedi, afterall, we do over see them correct?
Conclusion: Make TKA worth being as opposed to Swordsman (PVE) or Fencer (PVP). Make it balanced and make it more in-depth. Just some of the observations i've noticed being a Teras Kasi Master for about 6 months now. The profession is plagued by the one damage type, and high kinetic resists mobs in the game. Great line of meditation (powerboost, and wound healing). Enjoyed Teras Kasi a lot. Hope some of these things get noticed and thanks for reading. Le me know if any helps.
-Skwall
Corbantis
Message Edited by Skwall on 06-17-2004 02:04 AM
DukeRith
Thu Jun 17, 2004 3:16 pm
#80
now im still alittle new to TKA, but there are only 2 things i would fix.
1. damage types
2. a timer bor power boost, all the other buffs have timers now, why cant power boost.
other than that i cant think of anything, next what bout combo doesnt owrk, ive never had a problem with it.
Ichi-ban
Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:44 pm
#81
I have read through this post several times, and I agree with almost every post. A couple of points, and thoughts...
1) Why should we get a different damage type? We do kinetic damage, and we do a lot of it in a short time span. So there are a few things we can't solo, boo hoo. This makes us depend on other classes to deal the damage, which brings groups together, which makes playing more entertaining in my humble opinion.
2) Armor has got to go, or at least heavy armor. Trying to use lightning fast moves in cumbersome armor should be impossible. TK's need to rely on speed and timing to defend ourselves. I would say that as your armor class goes up your speed and damage goes down. So if you want to wear composite, go ahead, but you'll be moving like a slug (getting hit more often) and doing less damage.
3) Stances, I just love this idea, I've read and re-read all the post pertaining to it. I think that a TK should choose a stance when combat starts. Make it impossible to do special moves until the stance is choosen. One stance for pure offence, one for a mix, one for defence... maybe toss a few more in there for different defence types or resistances.
4) I also love the idea about meditate being able to sense other player types around us, this might even be extended to a limited ranger type track without a direction or distance.
Other than what I have above I agree with the other posters. I'm very happy with my TKM, and I have never considered dropping it. I have been unarmed since I started playing and have only recently picked up a different melee class, and that was simply for varieties sake.
Thanks, and peace.
VVolverine
Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:28 pm
#82
Hi Everyone -
I hate to be Johnny-come-lately, but I was just wondering what the changes are going to be for this combat "nerf" that people have been talking about. Especially pertaining to the Teras Kasai Profession.
Thanks
EcYkKeM
Thu Jun 17, 2004 8:09 pm
#83
From certain posts I have read, Teras Kasi improved their mind over body and used their power to keep the power of the Jedi in control or something like that, so shouldn't Teras Kasi be stronger than Jedi? Or at least most Jedi. But, I would like to see some changes to 100% kinetic resistance among mobs, or a different weapon for different damage type. Or maybe vibromotors that change the type of damage depending on that particular type of vibromotor. No stun though, because Teras Kasi would become even more amazing than they already are. The Teras Kasi robes sound good and maybe after the expansion you could add the planet where the first Teras Kasi were and create a theme park with difficult quests so we can earn these new changes to improve our skills while being fair to other professions. Also once you reach Teras Kasi Master armor should either be not allowed to be worn, or there should be a speed penalty because in reality it would be hard to do all those technical combos with armor equipped.
Kalor_Kast
Sat Jun 19, 2004 8:00 pm
#85
I think TKM should be able to hunt Jedi that have 'fallen out of line' as in the books.
Kalor Kast - Master Bounty Hunter of Shadowfire
bhkiller102
Sat Jun 19, 2004 9:32 pm
#86
IMHO, the best way to make TKMs all that we want them to be, is to make them a elite proffesion coming off of MASTER BRAWLER, we could then justify giving us really cool special abilites, good defenses against all types of weapons (because we've been trained in all types of weapons), a new weapon, and force resistant abilities. If we take more skill points then the other Elite brawler profs, we can justify all those goodies. Of course for those that just want to be badass and fight with their hands, we could keep the current tk tree and name it "unarmed specailist," (as above poster said). I think TK could have one of the most advanced, and interesting storyline and skill trees in the game, just make it a little harder to obtain. Also, stances = THE BEST IDEA EVER, i hate the way we look when we're in combat..... BLECH. Other people feel free to take my idea and expand on it, its way past my bedtime and i'm tired ;-)
Xodarap777
Sun Jun 20, 2004 6:09 am
#87
Oh, and here is a novel concept......blocking. I watched the matrix the other day........they were doing a lot of blocking when they fought. Even Jackie chan films had blocking. When I took Martial Arts, the first thing we were taught was the blocking. There is none in SWG. instead we are like some enraged bull on steroids. Oh and a dodge ability would be great to some ranged weapons.
If you are taking our power away from us, then at least let us have a chance to avoid getting hit.
/agree
We are supposed to be martial artists. Besides the word "meditation," I see nothing mystical or artistic about us.
Meditation is neat --after some PvE battles. But it should apply better to who we are and what we do. Not only would it be more balanced, but it would also make more sense, for Power Boost to affect our secondaries instead of our primaries. This would improve regeneration and lessen the HAM impact of specials. This fits much better with the idea of a rested and focused martial artist, moving smoothly through a fight. Power Boost also needs to last much longer. This also would give us a reason to fight without armor, as we could get an even better HAM cost improvement; good enough to make it worth it.
On that note, we need a good incentive to fight without armor. We should be fighting without armor, but we have no reason. What should be the case, though it would be difficult in game mechanics, is that we should have very high dodgemodifiers (something to block with -- seriously, combat acuity is a *joke*) that are simply removed when wearing armor. (Isn't that what martial artists do?) This is quite balanced. 80% resistance is the exact same as only getting hit 20% of the time with no resistance, but it fits the profession much better. (Of course, if the new cap is 60%, that is equal to only being hit 40%, 2/5ths, of the time). In many RPGs, there are jobs/roles/professions that dodge well, and others that either have far more HP, or mitigate damage well. In the long run, it's the same, but it adds to the feel. (Think fighters vs. monks in most RPGs). This is what we should be: the monks. A composite-clad offensive powerhouse is not very mystical or monk-like. It certainly shouldn't be called an artist.
Another idea would be to give TKs natural resistances (maybe on the meditation tree) to damage types, which we lose if wearing armor. At master we could have 50% almost across the board. I would happily deal with less,as long as it is viable. We just need a viable alternative to armor. As it is, going with just the clothes is simply suicide.
Even if it is not repeated, please take this consideration seriously. It would be difficult to implement, perhaps, but very balanced. More importantly, it would give our profession the feel it deserves, without making us tanks. It might seem nice to dodge very often; but that odd hit we do take would cripple, if not kill us! If they go with the natural resists, they could be reasonably lower than expensive armor, but noticable. That, too, fits the mind-over-matter Teras Kasi.
On a similar note, Center of Being really needs to last longer. It's a waste of my time to use.
Also, as with all Brawlers, we need a specific ability to allow us to close the distance with kiters. It would be like burst run, but much faster both in duration and speed. It would be a sort of "jump on top of the target" move. Give it a high HAM cost and a chance of failure for balance.
Really, though, the thing is to try to make us martial artists. I don't want to be "uber." I don't need to out-damage or out-dodge or whatever. I just want to be a ninja. 
**edited: I saw a colorful post, and it was just so pretty :-P
Message Edited by Xodarap777 on 06-20-2004 06:27 AM
SidraBloodlust
Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:25 am
#88
I've been playing my Teras Kasi Master for 5 months now. I've fought every type of mob and have had abit of pvp experience. Being mind diseased, knocked down, dizzied, and incapped by a tkm/cm wearing stun composite really made me think I need to either get composite or learn how to play my character. I don't think it's how I play. I healed my disease, but it wasn't fast enough to stop him from reapplying it and knocking me down again. I tried knocking him down and dizzying him, but couldn't get up and he had better resistance than me. I felt frustrated. We fought 4 times just to help me try to beat him. No Luck. Does this mean the tkm/cm combo is more uber than tkm/doc? I dont' think so. I think it means he was wearing stun composite and I wasn't. It all came down to who had the best armor, and that really ruins the whole idea of player abilities/skills.
A win or loss should not come down to who found/bought/made/got the best best armor.
This has lead to many ideas and feelings about how TKM currently works (or doesn't work) and what changes could be made to enhance gameplay, fairly, as a TKM, so that it does not become menial boring tanking.
People say blocking should be improved. I agree. CENTER OF BEING is supposed to work as a blocking ability, but it doesn't seem to. Can this be tweaked?
Teras Kasi are Martial Artists, deft and agile, quick and dextrous. Armour of any kind other than LIGHT cloth, leather, or some special light material would not fit in with the martial artist concept.
Personally I'd like to see some kind of electrified or special teras kasi power enhanced armor that gives a stun or does dmg. I want to wear my exotic leotard enhanced with my teras kasi stun power or electrocute dmg.
Not only should martial artists be excellent dodgers/blockers, and wear LIGHT special armor, they also should be really really fast with their hands and weapons.
Perhaps increasing attack speed and reducing dmg would be appropriate?
And something the game is really missing for me,and seems to be a perfect Teras Kasi Master only Skill would be some kind of MInd attack. Not just the UA MindHit... something more.. spiritual, as others in this post have suggested.
How about MIND DRAIN? We can drain mind points from an enemy, perhaps NPC only? And the Mind points we drain get added to our pool for the duration of combat or something
Since Teras Kasi are supposed to be powerful body and mind disciplined fighters, it seems they should get some big benefit to their mind pool, like a bigger mind pool boost with PB or mind enhancing armor....?
One last suggestion: A dodge move that is like warp or phase in which the TKM quickly warps to another location nearby, would be really neato!
I'm not ever giving up my TKM. I think it's cool and fun, and I keep hoping better tweaks and changes to TKM will make it more fun to play.
Darth_Toast1018
Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:51 am
#89
Reading all of your ideas I would like you (provided you have the time) to repost them here. Time is short and I would like to come up with something comprehensive. So be specific!
What is your vision for TKA?
What would you like to see? The combat balance is going to bring a foundation for tweaking and polishing, what do you want to say to the devs about our profession?
New moves?
Old ones fixed? (like combo 1&2)
Species specific moves?
Content?
What about armor?
If at any moment during the game you were using TK and thought "You know what would be cool? If they...(add great idea here.)
I think it would be awesome if we had Teras Kasi Robes, kinda like the Jedi are getting.....
DrArgule
Sun Jun 20, 2004 9:11 am
#90
Wow!
You guys are incredible!
Im in Texas for work until the 25th so my ability to log into the boards is limited atm. Im making a list of issues and thier proposed changes, but the big challenge is trying to find out what can realistically be put into the combat balance and what is related (this would be vs a profession revamp proposal.) So im on it. Im going to check this thread until the 25th so if any of you have anything that hasent been posted already get to it.
and one more thing...
THANKYOU! 
Vlak
Koveros
Sun Jun 20, 2004 10:42 am
#91
Anything I say here has been said before.
As to armor, we should not wear hulking suits of it. Give us something that looks like clothes but that acts like armor with respect to resistances and armor rating. Let's face it, we need what armor gives, and we look stupid in it. The TKA "armor" could be different belts that show rank, sweet robes, martial artist suits, etc. Just so long as it has the same effect as armor, but looks lightwieght and like something a martial artist would wear.
Different damage types: yes, and no. Yes, if armor is going to have upwards of 70% resists, and no if it does not. Yes, if it is part of our special moves, ie replacing pool hits with damage type changing hits. No if it means you will give us another weapon.
Weapons: NO! We are unarmed. That means no weapons. VK's are fine for brawlers, but not for theUNARMED profession.
Racial moves: There could be different bonuses to TKA (or any profession for that matter) depending on your race. Trandoshans and wookies could have damage bonuses, Mon-cals could have better meditation than the rest, Bothans could have even more accuracy and/or dodge than the rest, ect.
100% resist mobs: bad idea. what are we going to do against those hmm? flip them off as the rend us asunder? mobs should have no more than 80% resist max. Anything will go down if you hit it enough times.