Commando Archive
Thread: Issues With the Heavy Acid Rifle
Page 7 of 7
thepunisher286
Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:53 pm
#79
Whittany wrote:Come on guys.. HAR has No Point to be in the Riflemen tree. If you want to be A riflemen Drop commando and Take up the Profession..First, before you guys cry about way the HAR should be changed. Commando's Have Proton Grenades and Rocket Launchers. You should Complain the the DEVS about making these Weapons better.. Like, Removing Grenade when its to close. Proton Grenades Have like 15 range and Damage radius of 10. Also, Rocket Launchers Should not Be Blocked or Dodged, They should take full damage if they did and should have splash damage if they Miss. Come on this is an RPG. it take 5.4 seconds to fire.. IE: time to aim it.. and any skilled Person with one can Hit their Targets 9 out of 10 times. Plus, You dont Aim RPGs at the Person, You aim it at the area they are next to. Doing this mean. it should Not miss at all unless the target is Burst run.But, Back to the Acid Rifle.Heavy Acid Rifle Should not be in the Commando Tree as it is now.. But, it is.. I think it should have these type of changes.HAR Should NOT have AP added to it.. Its liquid. I have never seen liquid Punch thru Armor.HAR Should Damage Armor on contact and it should continue to damage it till armor is removed..HARs DoT should Never Stop.. All Acid Does is Eat. This DOT should DO More damage then Flame.For Visual Aid. Lets take the Movie Alien and Aliens to help with this..1) When the Face Huggers Knuckle was Cut (Alien), it splashed on the floor. did nothing for the first 2 seconds, Then all of a sudden it ate its way thru Several Decks of the Ship.2) In Aliens, Vasques Shot an alien that covered Drake was acid, When it start to eat away at his skin, Drake had enough time to Scream and flame the Cabin of the APC.3) In Aliens, In the elevator when Hicks Shot the Alien, His armor was Splashed with Acid. Hicks had enough time to remove the armor with ripleys help before doing serious damage to him.With all this is Mind.. all this Damage refers to DoTs. Not To Armor Piercing... So why Add an AP to a Weapon the clearly cant Pierce armor.
Incase you havent noticed (obviously), Commandos have been asking to make Disposables 100x better. Dont accuse of garvin trying to make us into rifleman.
Why should it stay at AP0? your only reason is because its liquid.. well, we frankly dont give a damn if its liquid or not. We dont have any AP weapons that arent depletable. Rifleman specials combined with a HAR w/ ap would be game breaking, but then we just give it its own specials that arent in relation to rifles skills. End of any argument there.
Liquid CAN cut through metal. Ive seen it. With enough PSI it can cut through easily. There are machines today that cut out things with water.
No, i do NOT agree that the HAR should eat away armor at any special rate. Thats stupid. Why? Because what porpose does that serve?! I dont want to be known for eating away 200k suits of comp armor and become very disliked for it. Its lame and doesnt provide good battle support.
We want the HAR to be either a weapon we can use in PVP/PVE with ranged specials and some AP. We deserve it. As it stands, we spend the most skill points in combat, statisticly, we deserve something to fight with that isnt so INFLEXABLE as 5 stack grenades, or 5k a shot Rockets. Flamethrower is nice but its restricted to 16m specials and were NOT a melee class.
Theres clearly no reason to not give commandos the AP1/2 on the har, give it ranged specials and better mods. We sould like to be shown why we are worth 169 skill points.
Snuffleuphagus
Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:35 pm
#80
I have also noticed that the HAV really is lacking in everything you said. I think we should lower the resist on heat npc's to have low acid resists. We should also give the acid rifle ap 2, make hte wound dmg on it higher i know it has 60% but give it 75% wound chance. Give it a faster speed but little less dmg then the ft say like 100 less. I feel we should give acid rifle a spray special(area), blob special(dmg/mind dot), leg disolver(knockdown), and finally spray 2(dot/area). I dont think you should give it rifle specials but give it a mix of ft specials mixed with a rifle special. So it does huge mind dmg(like rifle) and it would do big dmg but slower then t21(like ft). Now if you can read that and understand what i mean then its all good. If you cant im very sry im a horrible writer i cant write for crud sry about the stupid names 
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Niskossk
Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:14 am
#81
There's apparently NO dispute as to whether the HAR, and the HAR brandh of MC, is effectively worthless outside of opening up Master Commando. Heh. This is as it should be, because I've NEVER seen anyone carry one around if they were actually planning on shooting anything. (The gun looks kind of cool, though, maybe for show... oh wait, the commando tree **IS NOT** the image designer tree, oops...)
It would be interesting to see an acid special that did high mind damage - I could DEFINITELY imagine going into instant panic mode if a bunch of acid were sprayed at me (Aliens was mentioned earlier - obviously, when anybody got touched with that acid, they immediately became completey occupied with either dealing with the acid, or dying - no, the SWG HAR should not become an instagib weapon, but PLEASE, at the very least, acid should NOT be a joke).
Omyz
Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:43 pm
#82
Sry i skipped most of this thread but it seems to me that the commando already has an ap 3 weapon, the particle cannon and rocket launcher. The rocket launcher seems useless to me since my particle cannon does around 4.3k dmg sliced and has a speed of 4.6(faster than ft). ive even done a significant amount of dmg to jedi as long as i have melee'rs keeping them occupied.
Anyways the point i was making is that the acid rifle should be a different type of weapon entirely from the flamethrower and heavy weapons. It doesnt need a dot since thats the flamethrowers job, it doesnt need another professions specials(launcher pistol), and it doesnt need significant firepower(heavy weapons tree), why not make it an all around weapon with a couple of medium range specials that increase its firepower. Make it sort of the commando carbine, a weapon that the commando uses regularly, relying on the other weapons only when the need calls.
Trig Dekal
jRaylianholy
Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:01 pm
#83
i think the acid rifle should go in with the flame tree and add like armor deterioation to it.
Brilyn
Mon Aug 16, 2004 9:51 pm
#84
< Other similar acid weapons are medium AP (i mean acid should penatrate) >
Non-Commando sticking nose in here...
That's untrue.
The only other (craftable) Acid weapons in the game are:
DX2 Pistol (Light AP)
DXR-6 Carbine (Light AP)
DXR-6b Rifle (Medium AP)
Glop Grenade (No AP)
Scatter Pistol (Light AP)
Acid Stream Launcher (Medium AP)
Nym's Slug Thrower is also Acid damage, but it's Light AP (and non-craftable).
On Average, Acid weapons are Light AP.
I'm of the opinion thatthe should be Light AP. Maybe Medium, but I'd say light, because:
Only twe weapons are Medium AP.
The Acid Stream Launcher is a Heavy Weapon, and thus, only good for 30 or so shots.
The DXR-6b Rifle is a Loot Schematic, and requires two identical Geonosian Power Cubes to make, and has an abysmally low Condition, unless you use Green Cubes to make it.
Now, talking about pure damage here (no specials, as I'm not familiar with them enough to comment)
The DXT-6b also only hits about 360 max Damage (on a good day).
Against targets with no AR (but with 1% Acid Resistance or higher, so AP kicks in), the HAR out damages the DXR-6b. (DXR-6b gets bonus 56% damage, so maxxes out at roughly 580max damage, vs. the HARs 750 or so).
Against Targets with AP1 (and higher), the DXR-6b quickly out matches the HAR in base damage.
As such, I think the HAR should have AP1. Given it's high base damage, AP2 is a little unreasonable. With AP1, the HAR clearly outdamages the DXR-6b against AP0, and AP1 targets (ie all PvPers).
Even against AP2 targets, with a 50% hit to the damage,an AP1HAR is on par with a 360 max damage DXR-6b (HAR ends up with 370 or effective max damage).
I think if the HAR was given AP2, the Devs would want to drop it's Max damage somewhat, and/or add in some complexty to it's construction.
As it is, it's a *very* simple weapon to make, and allows me to use all the best material I have in Steel, Iron, Metal (which *will* be Copper), Carbonate Ore and Crystalline Gemstone.
Compared to the DXR-6b's list of highly specific material, all the Heavy Weapons are a cakewalk, to be honest. 
LordGrythe
Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:02 am
#85
Axconis wrote:
Quote:
But properly made armour (ie properly sealed joints) 1. the flames wouldnt get in, 2. decent HR the heat wouldnt get in. 3.re metal being a good heat conductor true, but on something the size of a vehicle, all the heat gets conducted away, so minimal damage is done try using a flamethrower v a tank and see what damage you do 4. so only damage is lack of oxygen (and if its a sealed suit, may have its own oxygen supply anyway).
Re the acid rifle:-
Againacid is a liquid, when was the last time you saw a liquid cut through something as strong as steel or kevlar on contact (fair enough over time it might, but isnt that what dot damage represents? :-p) Also certain materials (such as glass) are chemically inert to acids so it is theorectically possible to make armour that would be immune to acid (or quite frankly, WTH is the acid stored in within the HAR )
Final not just cause its called Heavy doesn't mean its heavy AP. Heavy means weighs a lot (in this case, and in general for military termed Heavy Weapons)
End Quote
Ok, yes against a modern tank, flamers are almost useless, but do we have tanks in SWG? No, irrelevant. Yes, metals are great conductors of heat, which means when your encased in a metal composite material which has recently been coated in a highly volatile flammable substance, some of that heat is going to carry through to you, therefore sealed or not, your still going to feel some nasty effects through the armour.
Lack of oxygen not an issue because of possibility of suit carrying it's own air supply, why then can we get poisoned and diseased through it if we have no contact with the external atmosphere? Should we not be totally immune to those when in full armour? And finally, glass may be resilient to acids, and there are several metals (gold/platinum/ a few others aswell which i feel details of are unneccesary), there is a lovely substance which if you have completed any kind of senior school chemistry, you would know primarily as "Aqua Regia", this stuff eats glass like fire does paper, and yes by it's chemical composition it is an ACID.
Outside of that on the heat scale to argue against the no AP for that, go check out some time what thermite will do to an M1 Abrahams tank (currently the worlds premier main battle tank, A2 variation now i think???), and you'll see that no amount sealing and heat "protection" is sufficient when someone sets their mind to it.
Anyway, i just thought with so many posts about comparisons to RL, that some people needed to realise that these forms of essentially "chemical warfare" are regarded as warcrimes and crimes against humanity for a reason, they do horrific amounts of damage to just about anything, with very minimal effort from the aggresor.
When was the last time u saw a guy w/ a blackbelt beat up an atst?
OceasArt
Fri Aug 20, 2004 9:56 am
#86
My Commando toon in the past was always Commando (flame 4 only) / and Master CH. This time I'm taking him Master Commando. Last night I leveled Acid 1, and I have to say that it sucked REAL bad. First off, I thought it would be a DOT, because if anything screams DOT, it's ACID BURNING YOU. Second of all, it was just weak compared to the comparable flame shot. I liked how the spray looked on the acid special, but I would prefer that the normal shooting was more like the flame thrower.... have the acid rifle shoot blobs of acid instead of a laser.
Someone mentioned that they stick 4 dots when they are fighting. Are each flame dot a seperate burn? I always though they were just a single burn that you reset the timer on when you hit the target. Is it possible with Master Commando to actually have 4 flame dots working at once?
Thanks!
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