Commando Archive
Thread: Issues With the Heavy Acid Rifle
redrumsam
Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:34 am
#66
everything bad said about theHAR is right, its slow, less damage than ft, too much ham costs, etc. i dont really care what is done about it as long as it is made better. also it should be moved into the FT tree and make the HAR tree a close combat tree, like riflebut and etc (like starnick said in the first post) or have the close combat specials put in field tactics and put a assault rifle in the HAR place.
LuciusScipio
Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:06 am
#67
Ok, here are my 2 credits worth of thought here. The new sound and visual graphics for the acid rifle are terrible. It sounds just like an FWG5 and this is a heavy weapon. Couldn't the devs invent a new sound? I would think the sound of something sizzling would be better than it's current sound.
I also agree with the above posts about how these rifles don't stack up with Flame Throwers but that is being well documented. :-)
Callaway86
Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:41 am
#68
Wow, i trained all the way to HAR 4 and my DX2 still out-damages the HAR on DPS. What a piece of junk. An the specials don't do much damage I noticed. My flamer will take a 60% heat resits/acid vulnquicker than theHAR.
Blacca
Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:42 am
#69
can you imagine the ruthlessness of master headshot with an acid rifle however?
Alexoin
Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:13 am
#70
Hellshot wrote:
You need to look at these guns in the context of their damage and our other weapons. First, the flamethrower should be AP0 because its a ball of fire, not a projectile, and therefore cannot pierce armor.
Yes, but if the flamethrower can cook what is inside the armor, that's just as good as piercing the armor, if not better. Flamethrowers make excellent anti-armor/anti-vehicle weapons in real life since they have a tendency to set off ammunition and fuel in the vehicles. Metal conducts heat reasonably well, at least it did the last time I checked. I'm not saying you are wrong, I am just stating that if a weapon can destroy an armored target without piercing the armor just as well as an armor piercing weapon, then for all intents and purposes, it is armor piercing(that is, it should not be AP 0).
But properly made armour (ie properly sealed joints) 1. the flames wouldnt get in, 2. decent HR the heat wouldnt get in. 3.re metal being a good heat conductor true, but on something the size of a vehicle, all the heat gets conducted away, so minimal damage is done
try using a flamethrower v a tank and see what damage you do 4. so only damage is lack of oxygen (and if its a sealed suit, may have its own oxygen supply anyway).
try using a flamethrower v a tank and see what damage you do 4. so only damage is lack of oxygen (and if its a sealed suit, may have its own oxygen supply anyway).Re the acid rifle:-
Againacid is a liquid, when was the last time you saw a liquid cut through something as strong as steel or kevlar on contact (fair enough over time it might, but isnt that what dot damage represents? :-p) Also certain materials (such as glass) are chemically inert to acids so it is theorectically possible to make armour that would be immune to acid (or quite frankly, WTH is the acid stored in within the HAR )
)Final not just cause its called Heavy doesn't mean its heavy AP. Heavy means weighs a lot (in this case, and in general for military termed Heavy Weapons)
(in this case, and in general for military termed Heavy Weapons)
Skeptic666
Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:06 am
#71
Not a viable wepon but if you takea hit of snow cake you dont miss to much!
Combat_Medic_to_be
Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:37 am
#72
Possibly a bit late in the process of things, but here are my ideas for improvements to the HAR.
Increase specialrange to make it more rifle like - HAR is the ranged weapon, the FT is the up close and personal one.
Increase the idea range of the HAR to suit the special range increase.
Give the HAR minimum AP2
The HAR should be kept a little slower than the FT with slightly higher damage
The HAR has no DOT but the AP2 brings it on par with the FT
These changes would make the HAR and FT quite different weapons with both being useful in everyday situations yet they are similar in the fact that their specials are identical.
None of these fixes are particuarly hard to introduce, simple number changes, no real development required, just a period on TC!
Combat_Medic_to_be
Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:50 am
#73
In fact, change that to giving the HAR AP3 and FT AP1 as it makes more sense really..will bring the weapons on par with other ranged profesions a bit too.
Jazzminn
Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:30 pm
#74
Blacca wrote:
can you imagine the ruthlessness of master headshot with an acid rifle however?
Wow I can only dream.... that would be... so awesome! ^_^
Whittany
Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:09 am
#75
Come on guys.. HAR has No Point to be in the Riflemen tree. If you want to be A riflemen Drop commando and Take up the Profession..
First, before you guys cry about way the HAR should be changed. Commando's Have Proton Grenades and Rocket Launchers. You should Complain the the DEVS about making these Weapons better.. Like, Removing Grenade when its to close. Proton Grenades Have like 15 range and Damage radius of 10. Also, Rocket Launchers Should not Be Blocked or Dodged, They should take full damage if they did and should have splash damage if they Miss. Come on this is an RPG. it take 5.4 seconds to fire.. IE: time to aim it.. and any skilled Person with one can Hit their Targets 9 out of 10 times. Plus, You dont Aim RPGs at the Person, You aim it at the area they are next to. Doing this mean. it should Not miss at all unless the target is Burst run.
But, Back to the Acid Rifle.
Heavy Acid Rifle Should not be in the Commando Tree as it is now.. But, it is.. I think it should have these type of changes.
HAR Should NOT have AP added to it.. Its liquid. I have never seen liquid Punch thru Armor.
HAR Should Damage Armor on contact and it should continue to damage it till armor is removed..
HARs DoT should Never Stop.. All Acid Does is Eat. This DOT should DO More damage then Flame.
For Visual Aid. Lets take the Movie Alien and Aliens to help with this..
1) When the Face Huggers Knuckle was Cut (Alien), it splashed on the floor. did nothing for the first 2 seconds, Then all of a sudden it ate its way thru Several Decks of the Ship.
2) In Aliens, Vasques Shot an alien that covered Drake was acid, When it start to eat away at his skin, Drake had enough time to Scream and flame the Cabin of the APC.
3) In Aliens, In the elevator when Hicks Shot the Alien, His armor was Splashed with Acid. Hicks had enough time to remove the armor with ripleys help before doing serious damage to him.
With all this is Mind.. all this Damage refers to DoTs. Not To Armor Piercing... So why Add an AP to a Weapon the clearly cant Pierce armor.
CyberData4
Tue Jul 27, 2004 4:41 pm
#76
No way should the heavy acid rifle be able to stack specials with riflemen. Remember, this is about making us better....not riflemen. It really would be gamebreaking to be able to use the HAR w/riflespeed n accuracy from 64m at speed cap.
I say:
-Give the HAR a range of 32m for their specials.
-make it faster than the flamethrower.
-give it AP3
-lower the dmg of HAR to around 300-600
If the HAR was faster it would make up for any difference in the dmg being lowered.
Baralai
Mon Aug 09, 2004 2:44 am
#77
Couldn't agree with Garvin any more. The FT is by far the superior weapon, quicker, lower HAM scores and has considerable DOT damage as I found recently on a trip to Dantooine. The HAR simply offers nothing new to make it worth using. I'm grinding through Commando at the moment and once I got FT3 I used my FT none stop never considering the need to change to a HAR. Because both trees use the same XP, what is the point is people using HAR?
Stick to the FT, and it will see you right.
Baralai Vegnagun - Bria Teras Kasi Master & Shock Trooper
Tenfo
Tue Aug 10, 2004 1:52 pm
#78
garvin wrote:
Since this question comes up a lot (What's wrong with the HAR?), I thought I'd make a post that I could sticky at the top for visitors and New Commandos to read. Feel free to adding any HAR issues if I missed any...
Problems with the Heavy Acid Rifle (HAR):
- On average (non-special) it does around 100 less damage then the FT.
HAR should be faster than FT and do more dmg because it has no DOT. (although it should have DOT too)
- On average (non-special) the weapon is slower then the FT by around .7 in speed
- The specials of the HAR are identical to the specials of the FT yet they are significantly weaker
- The HAR has a significantly higher HAM cost then the FT
- The HAR shares the same restrictions as the FT (range and delay on specials)
- The HAR has no DoT on any of it's specials
Big issue not having DOT. No reason to use this weapon.
- Most high level NPC's with high Heat resists also have high Acid Resists
Acid is good in newer dungeons. This dmg type has it's place but AP 0 is a joke.
- TheAcid Tree costs moreXP then the Flame Tree
- Like the FT, the HAR has no AP
Other similar acid weapons are medium AP (i mean acid should penatrate)
- Can not use typical "Rifle" specials with this weapon
I would like to see more of a rifle weapon like Heavy Repeater Rifle with rifle SEA actually working with it.
With all that being said, what you end up with is a weapon that is only really useful when fighting an opponent with High Heat resists but low Acid resists, which doesn't come up very often. Since that is strategically the only time to use the HAR, it definitely does not warrent it's own tree and does not deserve the higher xp cost. It's basically a weaker clone of the FT, sharing the same penalties, but not delivering as it should.
The HAR could be improved with AP andranged specials...And since it is a Rifle, it would be nice to be able to use rifle specials with this weapon. Basically, when it's all said and done, we focus on the Flame Thrower so much because SWG hasn't given us a good reason to focus on the HAR.
I hope that helps...When it comes down to it...it's a special case used weapon...nice to have, but not worthy of everyday, every situation use...