Commando Archive

I too am opposed to lowering the delay on the Flamethrower specials and increasing their range. It's asking for too much.

Also, I did not see mention of the Flamethrower counting as melee bug. That needs to be added.

3. The range of our specials is extremely short. The profession may be designed for close combat but the current range of 16 meters is prohibitive. Could the range be extended?

4. Recovery from our special attacks is very long with reports of up to 15 seconds. Could recovery time be reduced a bit?

------------------------------------------

Back to these two items again. I am opposed to any drastic changes. I would like to see 3. moved to up to a range of 20 meters instead of 16. It is often difficult to tell how close a target is when moving. So If we restrict it to include all ranges under 20 (the teens) then targetting is easier visually. 4m really should not make a hug difference in the grand scheme of PvP or PvE. As for Item 4, I am ok with the 15 seconds. But if it is reduced it should not go below 12 or so. The delay is there for a reason.

Also I'd like to add that medics need a way to cure Burn DOT just like Poisons and Bleeds.

On Grenades:

(I have two accounts, one is master weaponsmith, other is commando)

I actually think they'd be fine as-is, IF the Charges were increased 4 to 5 fold. That'd make the resources required similar to producing the consumable Heavy Weapons which have a base of 29 uses.

Make Grenades have 20 or 25 uses and they're just fine as they are.

---

Gyrtris wrote:
Er... I've gone through 125 (one crate) of C-22 grenades the other day and I have to say that their area of effect does work, because I'd target a lair and hit all the critters that are within the blast radious...

---

Thanks for the info, Gyrtris. I'm getting conflicting reports on this, though. If nothing else, the code writers need to look into this. If it turns out to be working fine, then no harm is done.

Several of the items submitted in my report don't necessarily require change, just examination by the DEVs and coders. Some may be working as intended but an explanation saying so would go a long way towards clearing up any misunderstandings.

Check me commando suggestions thread

Also I agree on fire damage. There needs to be a way to put it out. I mean, you can jump into water, but what if yer on tat or not near water? Stop drop n' roll?

Why don't you ask us before submitting your report?

I don't agree with any of your special attack/accuracy submissions at all, nor do many people. Our class is very, very powerful and you are really asking to get us nerfed.

Correspond with the community BEFORE you make a report, don't just let us know what you have submitted, that's wrong.

My suggestions (some of which are already mentioned):

Combine the Acid and Flame Thrower tree's into 1 tree "Special Weapons" or something..

Make the old Acid Tree, the NEW Launcher Pistol tree. Add a special or two, accuracy, speed mods, etc. LP should be AP1. We should not have to have ANY Pistoleer skills to get benefits or mods for the Launcher Pistol.

In the new Acid/FT tree, move FlameSingle2 and AcidSingle2 -move them to MASTER commando, as long with FlameCone2 and AcidCone2. THERE is your incentive to get Master Commando. This way the 'bandwagon' people (or whatever) can still do good damage with FlameSingle1, but the DEDICATED Commando's are the ones who get to do the MASSIVE damage - which is the way it should be, IMO.

HAR needs to be at least AP1. The recharge timer also needs to be looked at. It's WAY too long and doesn't seem to shorten even at higher levels of Commando like the FT does(at least as far as I could tell).

The timers for the FT are FINE, don't touch em. The range is fine, don't touch that either.

And something that could be a little fun... give people a way to 'put them selves out' when they are hit with the FT, as many people have requested. How cool would it be to have a stop, drop and roll animation where the person who got hit, actually drops prone and rolls around a bit?! hehehe They put the burn DOT out, but the down side is they are prone (andshould take MORE damage when hit)and unable to do anything maybe 10-15 seconds while they roll around. heh

Everyone has a chance..most people that complain are low levels anyway that have marksman skills or brawler skills. How do they expect to have a chance against a master commando..thats like a level 20 vs a level 50 in EQ terms. Anyone with high elite skills can kill a commando if they dont act stupid and rush into the 16m range or just stand there while we run up to them.

Im a Master Commando and I have been killed by high leve lrifleman, carbineer...and always by bounty hunters cause of their eye shot, dizzy knockdowns and LLC 1 shot. Yes we are not the only class that gets to 1 shot kill.

Also i have missed with my special 2 times in a row before on the same guy who then killed me because of the delay.

yes commando can do alot of dmg and kill with area but that area is very small and the people have to be basically standing right next to the target. A master combat medic took out a group of 15 people i was with in about 10 secs with area poison. 15..I have never taken out more then 4 at a time and I got lucky cause it was after they killed me and I came back with covert TEF and they were still standing there together.

We already have trouble trying to get close now that people are starting to realize you can just run around out of our range and kill us cause we cant get close enough to use the special.

The only things that I see need to be done would maybe take away some of the accuracy and speed from the skill trees and add it to master commando so you can deter some people from just going commando for flamethrower.

Commando is fine. Leave it alone, please. Then, you can stop waisting time trying to consider which changes customers will live with in your product management meetings, and make your jobs easier.

Folks, commando is still not perfect.Those of you complaining, go play the game and shaddup. Dev will not make a change due to any amount of your whining. It's about money and how long they can keep us paying for this piece of crap they put together.

You don't improve the game experience by taking away someone's fun time. You may boost another customer's experiencing by increasing their ability, but nerfing things that one set ofcustomers are enjoying is asking both from them to leave and for a failed MMORPG.

Stop trying to be fair by nerfing, and instead focus on increasing thefun for another prof that isn't keeping up. Don't take away from the expereince. That's a manager that doesn't know what they are doing...

Some people are tired of the schizophrenic changes since day 1, and if they come yet again, this customer will be ending his payments and gettig back to real life.

Ah, lets see... First off, if you still want 'em, Synn, here's some weaponry for you:
<br><br>
Flamethrower - Sliced for 30% Damage, I believe, though I don't remember the exact number
Damage 552-1074 at 4.7 speed<br>
HAM at 76-18-18 Health-Act-Mind<br>
Range modifiers +11 @ 0m, -54 @ 50m, +0 @ 64m<br>
Weapon Analysys: A great piece of work. It'll hit for approx. 2750-3500 with Single level 1, then come through with great burn damage (approx. 955 on an AT-ST, 1326 on any Pubam, and 1255 on most every Dantooinian creature). Very happy with the weapon and the skill tree at the moment, though I agree it could use a minor accuracy tweak - maybe add +5 more accuracy to each Novice Commando and Flamer 1/2.

Known Bugs: The melee bug, of course, which everyone knows about.<br><br>
Suggested Balancing: Make the fire DoT damage be more drastically scaled based on creature heat resist. Something with 100% Resist should still take some damage(it's on fire for chrissakes), but this should be minimal - like 100-ish per tick. Then again, fire-vulnerable creatures should burn and die, taking up to, say, 1500 per tick (not a lot more than they take now).<br><br>
Requested Changes: Do something to make the weapon ranging modifiers actually reflect where it should be used. What the range modifiers tell me is to either use the weapon at point-blank (which is exactly what the specials suggest) OR to use it from extreme-long-range. I would request ranging modifiers be changed to +0 at 0m, +25-ish at 16m, and like -50 at 64m to truly reflect the range of the weapon.
<br><br><hr><br><br>
Heavy Acid Rifle -<br>
Damage 423-811 at 4.3 speed<br>
Range Mods: +16 @ 0m, -13 @ 35m, -115 @ 64m<br><br>

Weapon Analysis: Not a particularly bad weapon, in-and-of-itself, but it's simply not worth your time compared to the flamethrower. It's a VERY slight amount faster, but only because mine was speed-sliced - out-of-the-box acid rifles usually run, I believe, about 2 points slower than the Flamer (5.0 as opposed to 4.8). Add in the lower damage, and something needs to be changed. The specials are identical, except they do significantly less damage, fire significantly slower, AND lack the DoT of the Flamethrower. The weapon's only redeeming feature is the Acid-type damage, which many creatures lack. It's only true role in combat is use when a target has incredibly high Flame resists, and even then, the Flame DoT will do damage as fast as the acid rifle could ever hope to.<br><br>

Known Bugs: One small bug with the Accuracy bonuses not stacking correctly.<br><br>
Suggested Balancing: Modify the Acid Rifle to be the true damage workhorse of the Commando arsenal. First, make the specials have identical delay to the flamethrower specials, if not slightly faster. Second, raise Acid Rifle damage to HIGHER than the flamethrower. The flamethrower's DoT effect is where it shines, and the lack of that effect on the Acid Rifle removes much of the weapon's use. An alternate path to achieving much the same goal would be to give the weapon Armor Piercing Level 1 or, more preferably, level 2. Those two combined would make it more competitive, and we'd see less people taking Commando to Flamer 4 and calling it a profession.<br><br>
Requested Changes: Buff acid rifles to AP 1 or 2, or raise the damage. Raise Acid Rifle special move damages and match the specials' speed to the Flamethrower specials. In the end, the Flamethrower and the Acid Rifle should be roughly equal in terms of combat value. Flamethrower would be more of a support weapon while Acid Rifle would be direct damage - a good strat would be to set the target on fire, then flip to the acid rifle to deal more raw damage while the burning works its magic as well. Currently, however, you can do more damage by just continuing to lay on the flame.<br><br><hr><br><br>

Launcher Pistol<br>
Perhaps the most neglected of our weapons, I personally feel the damage and speed and such is fine how it is. However, it needs at least *ONE* dedicated Commando special. If you don't want to play with existing skill lines, simply add the special either somewhere in Heavy Support or Field Tactics. I would suggest a special much like Stopping Shot/Low Blow, only more powerful. Perhaps "Hellstorm" would be an accurate name - fire off 10-12 visual blasts QUICKLY with damage running 3k at a minimum against unprotected mobs. This should cost a good chunk of the Commando's HAM and create a 7-10 second delay. Another approach would be to drop the damage some (to 2500 or so minimum) and add in either a delayed-enemy-action effect (like Panic Shot) or a Suppression Fire-like posture-down attack. Also, throw in at LEAST one level where we get a buff to the weapon's speed and accuracy, so we don't have to take Pistoleer to make it an effective weapon.<br><br><hr><br><br>

Back in the thread some, there was some question about Particle Beam damage verse ATST's - if the question was addressed, I didn't see it, so here goes:<br><br>
My Particle Rifles usually run at 1900-3100 damage at 5.0 speed unsliced. They're Heavy Armor Piercing and can hit a completely unarmored mob for in excess of 11k on a really good shot. So, presume for the moment that the only factors in effect are the weapon's actual damage and the enemy's armor. Assume I hit for max and pull 3,100. Now, since the enemy is unarmored, we do 3,100 x 1.25 x 1.25 x 1.25 which comes out to be 6054 damage. "Wait, that's not the same as 11k!" Right, there's some sort of extra modifier that occurs whenever you use the FireHeavyWeapon command. I don't know what it comes from, but I can calculate it! Here's how: real final damage is 11,000 for sake of discussion. Now, factor out the armor of the enemy, so 11,000 / (1.25 x 1.25 x 1.25) comes to 5,641 Base damage - assume that's the maximum damage, then, and we can find the extra modifier: 5,641 / 3,100 = 1.82. Basically, that means that whenever you use fireHeavyWeapon in combat, you get an out-of-the-box 1.82 modifier to the damage of the weapon.<br><br>
Right, NOW we're set to find damage verse an ATST. ATST's have Heavy armor and 75% resists. So, since both our Particle Rifle and the ATST are heavy armor and AP, damage is neutral - lets say I max the shot and roll for 3,100 damage verse the ATST. Now, include the 1.82 modifier that we know occurs on all fireHeavyWeapon shots, so we're up to 5,641 base damage. Now, even though the armor cancels the heavy AP, we still have to go through resists, so slice another 75% off (5,641 x .25) and we end up with 1,410 damage per shot verse an ATST with the Particle Cannon. In practice, you'll rarely hit that high (the minimum is 865 damage per shot using the same numbers), but you should see your shots averaging a little over 1k damage. verse an ATST.<br><br>

Expendable Weapons Analysis:<br>
--Heavy Particle Beam Cannon - GREAT weapon, I love this thing. Good damage, high AP rating, good speed, and slices yeild wicked numbers. Sure, it's expendable, but who really cares when you can earn cash so quickly on Dantooine, Dathomir, and Endor with a good group and some skill. This weapon CAN turn the tide of a hopeless situation, but it can also very easily make you an unhappy commando when you forget to check the creature's energy resist before you fire...<br><br>
--Heavy Acid Stream Launcher - Not bad, not bad. About the same numbers as the Particle Cannon, but lower AP rating. Doesn't matter in most cases since lots of critters're acid vulnerable, meaning you can set up some wicked shots with one of these, even against mobs your Particle Cannon would barely scratch.<br><br>
--Heavy Rocket Launcher - At the moment, there's just no freaking point. Not ONLY will this weapon run you 5 to 10 times the cost of the other expendable weapons, but it's not like Blast is a particularly common vulnerability either - might as well use a Particle Cannon, except that you get more accuracy mod to the RL earlier up the Support tree. If and when ATST's go blast vulnerable, these MIGHT actually be worth buying - we should be able to 3-shot an AT-ST at the very worst - sure, that's harsh, and I agree - perhaps the weapon SHOULD have a 10-ish second delay due to that huge vulnerability, but that would screw imperial commandos, which isn't fair (Rebels would have a cut-and-dry use for Rockets, while Imperials would have no reason to buy one when a Particle Cannon does the same thing for their purposes).<br><br>
--Heavy Lightning Beam - Slightly lower damage than the Acid Rifle and it's down to AP1. The electric damage is definately nice, but IMO more critters are acid vulnerable than electric. The only real coolness is the animation - other than that, stick to 'Streams and 'Particles.<br><br><hr><br><br><br>
Summary: Stuff the class could use<br><br>
A flamethrower DoT nerf (don't lessen the damage, just curve it to take resists into account) would cut out a good chunk of the whining, and I'm fairly sure Commandos on the whole wouldn't bitch about it so long as the Acid Rifle was simultaneously made into a functional weapon. That Acid Rifle just screams "USE ME!" because of the acid damage, but with the current state of affairs it's STILL faster to use the Flamer, even if the creature has some heat protection. The first thing the Rifle needs is a Speed buff for the specials, after that comes damage. At the very least, if the times were equal, Acid vulnerability would pull SOME people to use the Acid Rifle intead of the flamer.<br><br>
Expendables could use some reworking. First off, ANYTHING that I have to pay 10k for 30 shots should be AP3 with no questions asked. Second off, I think a LOT of commandos would like to see Expendable Accuracy bonuses normalized - in other words, combine ALL expendable weapons to use ONE accuracy modifier - "Special Heavy Weapon Accuracy", for sake of discussion. Give a +20 to Spec Hvy Weapons Accuracy and Speed every single level - there's no call to use Lightning Cannons now, for instance, since the things only pull like +40 across the whole tree, while the Rockets and Particle Beams pull +60 to +80.<br><br>
Field Tactics line could use a bit of work - Grenades just aren't good enough to compete with other expendables, and expendables in general can't compete with non-expendables. Addition of ONE LP special would actually make the tree somewhat worthwhile to get, for those of us who wish to have Blast weaponry (ATST killers) without having to shell out the huge cash for a Rocket Launcher.
<br><br>
Any feedback is welcomed

OK, pardon all those HTML tags in my post - the "Edit As HTML" button mystified me into thinking I could actually *gasp* use HTML in the post - pardon me for thinking.

I think he did rather well with it. Besides people will probably bicker for ages about what should go in the report.