Commando Archive
Thread: More on the commando change
Commando weapons are resulting in a 2.5x damage multiplier from melee damage, and are considered ranged weapons now.
I expected to lose the attack bonus to ranged users, and not incur a damage multiplier. I expect accuracy for normal weapon damage (cycle) to be more accurate at range, and I expected the specials to be more accurate at <16m.
I feel that the current state of the commando (as far as combat) is not the fair, logical, or fun way to design the profession.
<3
And no we should NOT get a melee penelty. Having a melee penelty stops us from any PVE except for the very very low lvl missions. Because if we get within 16m to use a special we can be killed with a single hit.
Example. Say a Flumpaset hits for 250 dmg normally. We get within 16 m and set them on fire. For the next 8 seconds or so we will be taking around 625 dmg per hit regardless if we unequip the flamethrower or not. And any mob can hit usenough in 8 seconds to kill us with a 2.5 dmg modifier.
Having a melee dmg modifier for a close range combat person doesn't work.
Holocron wrote:
OK, bear with me a bit here because I am still ramping up on exactly what the issue is (I don't play a commando myself).
The way things are at the moment, post-patch:
- Commando weapons operate at up to 64m. The default loop is slow but pretty powerful in terms of raw damage per hit. (I don't know how they are in terms of DPS--?)
- Commando weapon specials are limited to <16m.
- The commando weapons take pretty significant accuracy hits when used <16m.
- But the commando specials have significant accuracy bonuses which make them very accurate at <16m.
- Commandos take ranged weapon defensive penalties when fighting vs melee, resulting in 2x damage to them.
The way you thought things were going to be:
- Commando weapons would operate at up to 64m, but their strength is at short range for both specials AND default attack.
- Commandoswould not do extra damage to ranged weapon wielders.
- Commandos would not take defensive penalties versus melee
Is that accurate? I just need solid info so I can discuss this with the combat designer.
Ok, I played with my flamethrower ALL day yesterday. It is no longer a melee weapon, the combat window now says I shoot my flametrhower as opposed to swinging my flamethrower.
The default attack is slow, but it is not very powerful like you say Holo, in fact, damage has been cut by approximately 75%. My default attack would hit for 800 dmg on average, it is not hitting around 175-200. Furthermore, the PvP damage seems to have been reduced by 75% twice. Default attack with my flamer was hitting for 65-75 points where i was hiting for up to 250 pre-patch.
Also, they way you say 'we thought' the Commando change was going to be was in fact the way I had envisioned it. I expected NOT to do more damage to a ranged fighter, but I didnt expect to take 2x damage, especially considering the defenses that you say you might take away, are in fact miniscule defenses. +5 mods are nothing and now we're taking twice the damage in melee.
Also, the combat window is reporting abour 4x the actual damage floating off on NPC's heads.
Sometimes I dont explain myself very well, so I hope I made myself somewhat clear.
Thanks.
Attn: Holo
Please speac to our correspondent he can give you our issue's in detail
In a nutshell our heavy weapons have been changed to rifle weapons in name only and not in function. therefore we still need to be in melee range to use any speciales or use our weapons with any effectivenes. The problem is we now have the damge modifiers of a riflemen so when we get melee attacked we are taking 2x the damage. This being said when we use a speciales we are unable to defend ourselves in anyway for 15sec. People are saying to use stratigy and swith up weapons only we can't we still take the melee damage the whole 15sec after a special is used even after unequiping weapon it still acts as if that heavyweapon is equiped. The end result is death with the heavy melee damage and no defence even with a good suit of armour a med creature conning blue can easily drop us. If we miss the first shot we are definatly dead. This has pretty much made the commando class basicly useless.
Thanks
Holocron wrote:
- Commandoswould not do extra damage to ranged weapon wielders.
- Commandos would not take defensive penalties versus melee
Is that accurate? I just need solid info so I can discuss this with the combat designer.
Absolutely. Right now, with a 2.5 multiplier on damage we take from melee damage, using a flamethrower is suicide. This need fixing NOW. I admit that there were some balance problems with Commandos (the bonus multipliers on ranged damage for one, wound damage for another) but this is swinging the pendulum too far in the other direction.
Holocron wrote:
But the commando specials have significant accuracy bonuses which make them very accurate at <16m.
Sorry Holo, but there is no "significant" change in accuracy at close range, in fact its very inaccurate at master level still.
The FT should operate as a close range weapon in normal fire AND special. It's a flame thrower... have you EVER seen a FT shoot a fireball 64m away? Halve the normal range to 32m, and the special to 16m.
However, then the Commando needs a long range weapon... ENTER ACID RIFLE! Make the acid rifle the opposite of the FT in that it excels at 32+ range and is terrible at -32m range. That way, dabblers are eliminated and the true Commandos have a long range weapon AND a short range weapon.
The FT should be theCLOSE range weapon of choice or commando, and the acid rifle should be the LONG range weapon of choice for commando.
Since Commandos need the unarmed tree, and need to master Marksman, the Heavy weapon shouldn't take extra damage from melee attacks... nor should it DEAL melee damage to rifleman. We learn more to become Commando and thus our FTs shouldn't allow us to take MORE damage, or at least THAT much more damage.
Now don't get me wrong... I LOVE being able to shoot people 64m away with my FT, but c'mon... it's even unrealistic as far as game terms. Make the FT short range and make the COMPLETELY UNDERUSED AND OVERLOOKED acid rifle long range. Sorry if I'm using caps, but these are things that should've been done a long time ago.As it is right now, anyone who wants the better weapon or damage or dot or anything uses a FT over an acid rifle.
i dont care what happens to commado as long as they dont do 2.5x damage to rifleman with thier flamethrowers...
and as a master rifleman, hearing about commandos complaining about dying to to 2x damage... hehehe welcome to my world, except i get hit for more!
There is more to commandos than flame throwers. Aren't the other heavy weapons capable of killing quite effectively past 16m range?
Please consider all the capabilites not just the short range on flame thrower specials.
Holocron said:
- Commando weapon specials are limited to <16m.
- The commando weapons take pretty significant accuracy hits when used <16m.
- But the commando specials have significant accuracy bonuses which make them very accurate at <16m.
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Does anyone else see an oxymoron here?
...takepretty significant accuracy hits when used < 16m
... have significant accuracy bonuses which make them very accurate at < 16m
Net effect, assumed, is nothing. We get no accuracy bonus or negation, yet our specials are all in close. They DO NOT have high accuracy as 7/10 times our shots miss, we are then forced to stand for 9-15 seconds doing nothing while taking a 2.0-2.5 times multiplier vs damage. So for 9 seconds after a miss I am getting beaten at 2.5 times normal rate.
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What was expected was:
The loss of the 2.5 times modifier vs. Ranged combatants.
An expected delay in our special attacks, as the damage done in bursts is pretty high, however a 9-15 second delay seems excessive (though more tolerable if the 2.5 modifier was lost).
An expected range of 64m with increasing accuracy with increased proximity to target.
AsI read your expectations they do seem correct to what the general consensus was thinking. The additional delay time is excepted, but the modified melee combat damage is not.