Commando Archive
Thread: Some Friendly Testing Advice for TH and other Devs...You'll quickly change your mind!
While we're talking about water (sort of), can the acid rivers and lakes on Lok be made to do a bit of damage so long as you are in them? Sure, let em put out the fire dots too, but these are acid! They should do some damage as you cross them, even if minor. Speeders should take a bit of splash damage as they cross them as well.
Lava, on the other hand, should burn you pretty fast, and it currently does nothing, like the acid rivers.
Lodacai
I just hope you remember in the big combat balance that's going to solve all our problems take into account the amount of skill points a character costs. Right now some of the basic elite professions are overall stronger than either of the hybrid combat professions(bounty hunter and commando). If I put 217 skill points into a profession, and bob puts 92, I sure as hell expect to have a significant advantage.
Thunderheart wrote:
garvin wrote:
This is meant to be a postive post offering some testing advice for TH to better understand our issues...
He stated the other day that he and a Dev friend logged into TC as Master Commandos and fought each other in a Cantina. I do not believe that was an accurate test to understand our difficulties...
TH...please try your test again...except this time try the following combinations:
Master Commando VS Master TKA - Start next to each other...Flame Special VS Spammed Dizzy/KD...
Master Commando VS Combat Medic - Start at 30m...Deal with ranged disease attack...
Master Commando VS Bounty Hunter - Start at 30m...Deal with ranged kiting and Mind Bleed...
Master Commando VS Any Ranged Profession - Start at 30m...Just deal with ranged kiting...
Master Commando VS Marksman Pistol Tree Only - Start at 30m...Again deal via ranged kiting...
Now remember...Commando is the "Heavy Weapon Specialist" of the game...We have "apparently" one of the most feared weapons and specials in the game...capable of causing serious grief...In all the above test scenerios, who is the victor? Don't use any secondary profession dabbling as not all Commandos have the same templates.
There are plenty of other combos for you to try, but Master Commando Vs Master Commando is just to even to fairly judge our profession...
Now, once you've tried fighting all those combinations, think about adding in the "no stacking" rule and "fire extingishers"...Our advantage (as you and others have expressed)doesn't seem to unfair once you've been in all these types of fights...
I understand what you are saying. Im a commando and I play PvP. None of this flies.
Some things to keep in mind:
1. There is a combat balance underway / spamming will mostly be a thing of the past
2. There is a PvP balance coming up next
3. Mind Bleeds / other Dots have been balanced
4. HAM costs changing
5. Versus any ranged profession = no dice. Professions are neither "classes" nor is any one class supposed to have "everything"
6. I see Commandos drop Pistoleers all the time. The Pistoleers fret over the fact that they arent as powerful as other elite profession.
Fire DoTs arean unstoppable DoT.
Anything that can be done and NOT un-done is unfair.
When you consider combat items, try to think of them as they will be and not as they are.
When you consider combat items, try to think of them as they will be and not as they are.
This would be difficult for 2 reasons. Most of us, if not all, dont know how things will be. Second, when your proffession is busted at launch, after 6 months only 1/4 of the trees work properly/ at all, and then you are told the one working thing is being nerfed, you tend not to be forgiving.
First off...Thank you TH for coming and giving us some feedback...it really does mean a lot and all of us appreciate you taking some time with us...the frustration factor is very high here, so you'll have to forgive some of us if we seem a bit "tense"...
Here is what you wrote and some of my observations:
I understand what you are saying. Im a commando and I play PvP. None of this flies.
Some things to keep in mind:
1. There is a combat balance underway / spamming will mostly be a thing of the past
Does this mean professions like TKA and others will join the ranks with us and have long delay timers that prevent any action (beyond running for your life) while you wait to attack after using a special? If not, then it's really not much of a balance...Remember this theme throughout my responses...With Great Power Comes Great Restictions...we've got the restictions which is the reason we've got the power...that's where the balance is found...
2. There is a PvP balance coming up next
3. Mind Bleeds / other Dots have been balanced
To us Commandos...a Mind Bleed and other DoT are more powerful then our Flame Dot...because they can be done to us from 64m...we can't defend them....we can't remove them...If we are hit with one, it just speeds up us losing...How can things be considered balanced when we lose some of our power, we keep all of our restrictions and the other DoTs stay the same (they just can't stack)....
4. HAM costs changing
5. Versus any ranged profession = no dice. Professions are neither "classes" nor is any one class supposed to have "everything"
Any ranged profession, whether beginner, eliteor hybrid can easily beat a Commando...stay out of the range of our specials (more then 20m to account for lag) and they can kite us to death...we can't do enough damage fast enough to compete..The have the speed it takes to out damage us overall from a distance...Speed is the key issue...through in better accuracy to boot and it puts the last nail in our coffin...when fighting a Commando, ranged professions do have "everything". Any ranged opponent that loses to a Commando lost either because of bad strategy or because of the Commando dabbled in another ranged profession...If only using Commando weapons, is it to be assumed that the Commando is suppose to lose everytime to a ranged opponent? Is that just the way it should be...Balance to me means it should be as close to 50% as possible...especially since we are considered a "ranged" profession...And when it comes to Melee professions, if they have a KD they can use their speed and accuracy to keep us on our backs...spam or no spam, if we can't get up as fast as they can hit their specials, we have no chance of winning...
6. I see Commandos drop Pistoleers all the time. The Pistoleers fret over the fact that they arent as powerful as other elite profession.
Again...that is only because a) the Pistoleer used faulty strategy (they got to close) or b) The Commando dabbled in a ranged profession....Speed & Accuracy out does Slow Damage everytime...Are we considered a "balanced" profession if we must depend on dabbling other professions to have a chance of beating another ranged profession opponent?
Fire DoTs arean unstoppable DoT.
I find that an opponent that stays outside my range has quite successfully stopped my Fire DoT...We are granted such a powerful "unstoppable" DoT because of the severe restrictions we have as well...that's the balanace...The target has to be within 16m...we also have to deal with a long delay timer, poor accuracy, and natural unlimited way to put out the DoT.
Anything that can be done and NOT un-done is unfair.
Nobody is denying that there should be a way to better put out the DoT...what we are saying is that this must come with similar retrictions as other DoT extingisher methods...How do I put out a Mind Bleed DoT in battle? How do I put out a Bleed in battle for that matter? Disease? Poison? etc...All can not be un-done During Battle for the most part (with the exception of a few profession abilities)...How many other DoTs have a natural, unlimited way that anyone, no matter level, profession or class can extingish their DoT like water does ours? Is that fair...wouldn't we have a strong arguement that if Fire Extingishers are added to the game that the ability to use water to dose the DoT be removed? Wouldn't that be creating a balance?
When you consider combat items, try to think of them as they will be and not as they are.
The biggest problem is that it's all hitting at the same time without the fixes we desperately need...if it was just the issue of adding a Fire Extingisher...or Just the fact of no more stacking...Etc...then it would be a different story...but it's all hitting at once...We are losing certain capabilities without gaining anything to replace them...Examine our restrictions...we have more restrictions placed on us and our specials then most other professions...that's why we have more power...Now we are losing some of that power, but keeping all the same restrictions...
If you have a car that needs new tires...do you remove the tires one month and replace them the next...no, you do it all at the same time...It's not very reasonable to remove our combat benefits this month and give us something in return the next....it should be done at the same time...We are not being brought into line with other professions...we are not being balanced comparatively...we are losing the benifits we were given for having such high restrictions and costing so many skill points...
The only fair thing to do is if you are going to remove our benifits, then ease up our restrictions and give us something else we can use (like LP specials...a ranged rifle with ranged specials...and most of all BETTER DEFENSES).
How can you call it combat balances when a profession like Pistoleer has more Melee Defenses then us...and we are forced to fight in Melee Range if we want to use ANY of our specials...these are the types of balances you need to examine...
Again, thank you for your attention...I just hope you visit again and read this...
Fire DoTs arean unstoppable DoT.
I find that an opponent that stays outside my range has quite successfully stopped my Fire DoT...We are granted such a powerful "unstoppable" DoT because of the severe restrictions we have as well...that's the balanace...The target has to be within 16m...we also have to deal with a long delay timer, poor accuracy, and natural unlimited way to put out the DoT.
And what about switching to another weapon or using the non-specials? The fact is that if they are out of your range than you are also out of theres. A commando is a master marksman with a wide range of guns available, so use them to suit the situation. If they are close use the flamer, if they are at midrange use a carbine, if they are long range use a rifle or heavy support weapon. There is nothing a commandoisn't able to deal with. An unstoppable DOT is very much a bad thing, just be grateful they haven't added burn resistance and such to mobs yet. When they do that you'll not be able to even using a flamethrower on a rancor then.
Thunderheart wrote:
garvin wrote:
This is meant to be a postive post offering some testing advice for TH to better understand our issues...
He stated the other day that he and a Dev friend logged into TC as Master Commandos and fought each other in a Cantina. I do not believe that was an accurate test to understand our difficulties...
TH...please try your test again...except this time try the following combinations:
Master Commando VS Master TKA - Start next to each other...Flame Special VS Spammed Dizzy/KD...
Master Commando VS Combat Medic - Start at 30m...Deal with ranged disease attack...
Master Commando VS Bounty Hunter - Start at 30m...Deal with ranged kiting and Mind Bleed...
Master Commando VS Any Ranged Profession - Start at 30m...Just deal with ranged kiting...
Master Commando VS Marksman Pistol Tree Only - Start at 30m...Again deal via ranged kiting...
Now remember...Commando is the "Heavy Weapon Specialist" of the game...We have "apparently" one of the most feared weapons and specials in the game...capable of causing serious grief...In all the above test scenerios, who is the victor? Don't use any secondary profession dabbling as not all Commandos have the same templates.
There are plenty of other combos for you to try, but Master Commando Vs Master Commando is just to even to fairly judge our profession...
Now, once you've tried fighting all those combinations, think about adding in the "no stacking" rule and "fire extingishers"...Our advantage (as you and others have expressed)doesn't seem to unfair once you've been in all these types of fights...
I understand what you are saying. Im a commando and I play PvP. None of this flies.
Some things to keep in mind:
1. There is a combat balance underway / spamming will mostly be a thing of the past
Combat balance? There is no such thing. And there isn't because there are always going to be players who are going to push whatever combat system you have to its limits. Even at the higher end of things; each profession, according to many, must have a "role" on the battlefield and it is that very "role" which determines whether or not we throw paper or rocks back at the scissors trying to cut up our fun.
2. There is a PvP balance coming up next
Read 2nd paragraph in respone to #1....
3. Mind Bleeds / other Dots have been balanced
There's that word again; "balanced". It can NEVER be....
4. HAM costs changing
I take it this has something to do with "spamming becoming mostly a thing of the past"
5. Versus any ranged profession = no dice. Professions are neither "classes" nor is any one class supposed to have "everything"
6. I see Commandos drop Pistoleers all the time. The Pistoleers fret over the fact that they arent as powerful as other elite profession.
And I see Pistoleers dropping Commandos all the time. I see Bounty Hunters dropping TKMs all the time. I see Dancers dropping Musicians even. I see Chefs slapping Tailors silly. I see Droid Engineers handing Creature Handlers their asses packed airtight in the storage compartments of prenerf probots. And what all these ass kickers had in common was simple; they knew the game.
...and Pistoleers allowing Commandos to break cone range on them DESERVE to get their asses charred ALL THE TIME. It's not that hard to stay out of that 16m radius. Not hard at all.
Fire DoTs arean unstoppable DoT.
Get off of Tatooine please, not all PvP takes place on Tatooine....
Anything that can be done and NOT un-done is unfair.
Hmmm...many things come to mind here. Many things...
When you consider combat items, try to think of them as they will be and not as they are.
But without taking into consideration how they are, how is one supposed to know if what they think will be is even within the realm of possibility?