Commando Archive

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EcadMistflier wrote:

I would like to make a suggestion that comes from another direction. It seems to me that the main problem that most of the other classes have about the commando is the FT DoT.

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Hi Ecad. What about other DOT attacks. How are those dealt with? I believe a doctor can heal those while they are still in effect but the flame DOT cannot be healed. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't believe that the DOT is the only commando issue people complain about, though. Frankly, Commando and Bounty Hunter are much harder to earn than the weapon specialty classes such as Rifleman and Pistoleer, yet people seem to forget that. The bottom line is, we SHOULD be tougher than most other classes.

Anyway, I know the DOT is an issue but I'm starting to think that no matter what we change, other players are still going to bitch. Instead of fixing their own classes, they always seem to want to nerf everyone else.

Master Synn:

The DoTs are Fire, Poison and Bleeds. Bleeding can be stopped by any medic with First Aid 2. Doctors can make "Cure Poison" packs, but the medicine use skill needed to use those is very high.

The med use on poison packs is set so high (I believe) because poisons are the bread and butter of the combat medic, so they shouldn't be easy to cure (as getting Novice Combat Medic takes just as many skill points as Novice Commando).

Currently, the only way to remove a fire DoT (in PvP only) is to run into water. This is fine on Naboo where there are abundant lakes and rivers, but a pain everywhere else unless you luckily stumble into PvP near one of the few lakes or oceans. If you're on Tatooine when you're set on fire, it was nice knowing you. I think our fire DoTs should be no harder and no easierto treat than poisons myself and that doctors should be able to craft burn treatment kits that counteract the DoT.

Andro,

The way is see it is the inability to mitigate the damage of the FT DoT that is at the heart of the problem. As it has been demonstrated Bleed and Poison DoT have effective cures or treatments. This is why the elite classes have not, IMHO, fallen under the nerf bat as often or as hard as the Commando. Give the griefers the ability to treat this damage and see if the devs don't see things our way more often. We would have the ability to say "yeah but they can heal our DoT". We can't now and we are suffering because of it. The other classes see us as "ubber" because of this. Go to the devs with this one idea and ask, no demand that they make the FT DoT treatable and get rid of the new melee nerf for the sake of balance. Focus on the thing that the griefers fear most.

I fully agree that the cause of our nerf was mainly the dot, if they make a tool to stop it I think it would fix the balance issue. The main thing that makes people get pissed about our class is the few players and their storys of Commandos soloing the highest monsters in the game due to the FT DoT. If we made the dot pritty much cureable for players it would make alot more people happy.

The main complaints I've seen about commandos are the strength of our wounds, strength of our dots and overall damage in pvp. Speaking for myself here I could care less about wounds, I could also care less if our dots only did slightly more than your average bleed. I also understand that our front loaded damage was supposed to be offset by our inability to target a single pool, our accuracy, our proximity to the target and our lack of state changes in our tree.

Our frontend damage along with our dots led to our eventual hated state in PvP and the subsequent whining. I can't say that it is totally unwarrented but the fix for it was totally out of line. If any of you have come up against another commando in PvP you know what I mean, the whole fight comes down to who hits and who misses. If you both hit you both incap end of story, even the "winner" of the fight would be better off cloning with the wounds he'll end up with if he gets healed and there's no water around. So the fact that anyone who didn't get the jump on us in PvP and knock us down or didn't get lucky enough for us to miss them with our flame are better off dead. I think that's what led to the general whining about nerfing commandos.

PvP itself is flawed, 90% of the fighting takes place in cities where most professions don't have the 64m line of sight so it increases the chances of them being within our 16m sweet spot. PvP seems to be designed to favor the person who gets the first shot in, if someone knocks us down and dizzies us we're as dead as the person we kill with 1 shot. I also know that people rely on game mechanics to get the upper hand as well, I'm not the only one who has run around with a rifle and apprentice sharpshooter title only to do a quick switch to the flamer when someone tries to close on me to kill my accuracy with rifle. The game should have been designed to show the title that you have the highest skill mods with, the most skill points in, the most experience spent in or something of the kind. There also should have been a delay in switching weaps to prevent ninja swapping. As it stands now everyone is a novice scout, novice marksman and you don't know what tactics to use until you see what weapon they're wielding. What can else can I say, SOE has yet to show us that they have any control over PvP that is independent from PvE other than damage absorbs. The 2.5 dmg mod helps out the melee classes, of which there aren't too many in PvP and even if they do close with us unless they get the first shot then they're better off dead once we get a burn on them.

Anyway let me get to the end of this, I didn't intend to write a thesis. The only difference between our DOT and a CM's DOT is that we can't target a certain pool ie mind pool and ours can't be cured unless there's water nearby. I expected the balance for PvE and PvP to be a fix to DOTs in general and maybe even a lessening of the dmg mods on our specials. Our effectiveness in PvP/PvE would have been more in line and once they added a purpose to grenades and HAR we would be a well rounded profession. I would have liked to see our state changes being in our grenades and to have seen effects like traps usable on any target in our HAR. As it stands getting whacked for 1400+ in PvE unarmored or 500+ in armor is a little unreasonable unless SOE is making up for lack of content by forcing everyone to change professions every couple of months in order to enjoy playing.

Keep up the good work Synn, I think it's safe to say that the commando community knows who isn't keeping their end of the bargain.

Mere

meredragon thats my point if we dint have the flame dot as it is we be creemd and all clasis would love killing us and we basicly be trash compard to the llc wich dose more dam and faster then the ft the only thing that gives us a changs is ar dot r hw miss to much and r ft is the only thing u have to fall back on and with its incradiply slow refire rate with out that dot ppl would laugh at us and some thing bad

i say wat would fix the proplem more or less would be to move flame singel 2 to master and make it have not dot on flame singel 1 or flame cone 1 if this were done i bleev u c alot more happy ppl just like if eye shot were moved to master bh o ya the dables would couse and swaer but from gatherd from most of my frends in radiant wat there rilly mad at is that evry one and there sister is runing arond with gernader wich seems to urk ppl alot im going to start post on all the saport forms asking if this would make most of them happy ill get back to u on the resalts

i just tell u tho for masters to loos power in the burn dot would be one of the worst thing that could hapen to us

i hope u dont have a hard time reading this i no my speling is bad and gramer to sory

Synn, I think we are now getting to the heart of the matter. It is the way PvP is designed and the perception of the Commando as at the ultimate PvP class. Which we know to be untrue. What Meredragon has said about cities being the most common venue for PvP battles is true. It is also true that this accentuates the differences in combat styles and why the Commando and BH seems to win the day more times than not.The reasons are obvious: he or shewho hitsfirst, hardest and most often within the range of their "specials" tends to win.It's not brain surgery. We are not going to get the Devs to re write code for PvP.Not going to happen. We can however, IMHO, present the case that since we are feared so because of the FT DoT a mechanism should be provide to allow the DoT to be mitigated. By so doing we would effectively balance the game and give ourselves a hedge against the nerf bat. I am NOT suggesting that we reduce our damage or range. I am just suggesting a tool be made available to help other classes get a grip on the FT DoT they fear.

We could go on and on about how we should change the trees to better integrate our skills and how a "dabbler" (whatever that means) who has a level IV in tree III of commando can kick the crap out of a Master Commando but that would just fall on deaf ears at this point. We need to focus on giving the Devs an out and getting this 2.5x melee nerf removed. We are commandos. We were designed to be feared. We were designed to be deadly. We were designed to take a beating for our team when necessary. We were not meant to be gods.

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PistoleerWill wrote:
I fully agree that the cause of our nerf was mainly the dot, if they make a tool to stop it I think it would fix the balance issue.

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OK, I will pas this information on. Please post these types of messages elsewhere, however. This thread is only for data, not requests. Not that I don't care what you have to say, I'm just trying to stay on topic.

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Jeren_Sehn wrote:

Since no one else has mentioned it I just wanted to add that the Pistoleer "Point Blank" specials also have a limited range--12m.

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Thanks. I was aware of that but since pistol users also have bodyshot (64m) and since the point blank specials are specifically designed to eliminate penalties "up close" I didn't really take those specials into account. Thanks for pointing that out, though.

Synn:

Since no one else has mentioned it I just wanted to add that the Pistoleer "Point Blank" specials also have a limited range--12m.

Of all the other ranged classes, the only specials with limited ranges (other than our own)are: The LLC specials of BH, and Pistol Melee Defense1 & 2 and Point Blank shots in pistoleer.

I can only respond to the second one , but yes, the area of effect is working on grenades and seems to be working on the RL, in my experience, as I've damages multiple targets with one throw.

I personally believe that DOT should be counter acted by stop drop and roll, in other words if theres no water a player should have the option to go prone for so many amount of seconds to put out the flame (but suffer some wounds obviously) say 10 seconds? or some thing like that

I also believe the Acid Rifle Ranged effectiveness should be changed, it should be a long range weapon so its actaully useful, And that way when we want to shoot some thing with out it getting to us as soon as we attack it, we have that option, and I have to say against Melee we get owned REALLY BAD, I think the Tactics Tree should have more protection for melee (not worried about range) YOu should just think that after dealing in unarmed a COmmando could manuver some to avoid melee, block a shot or two, or some thing..... I'm not saying make Commandos a god, just be able to take a few more hits, because with my idea you'd be using the FT and specials so you'd have huge delays, so it'd be fare to melee PVP or PVE attacking you......

I also believe we should have more accuracy on Acid and FT, but they actaully defining "really hitting" should be set on 3rd or 4rth tree, you should have to earn it, or even Master Commando......

Acid Rifle should have different specials, instead of "cone" or single, it should have like a "over charge" where it fires a larger supply of its "acid supply" and there for it has to "regen" or recharge some making it have an effective time delay, perhaps useless to soloing, but in a group more effective, or it could fire a "blob" of acid that has splash damage, some thing like that

Launcher Pistol, I think it should have a few skill mods when you gain on the Tactics or heavy weapons tree, after all, no one even uses them any more, if the blast damage was effective for mobs, it'd make it worthwhiled to use for some thing with heat resistance, of course its weeker then the FT......

Nades, well obviously unless your targets stationary until you hit level 4 or master you should be able to directly hit moving targets, but as a tactic you could throw it "in front of" in PVP, so it'd hit them, the blast on them NEEDS to work, wether or not it hits its target or not

I think that would put commando on par with the other perfessions, even BH, and eyeshot? bleh who cares, let them have it, if they want to get close enough for it show them what DOT does, make them "stop drop and roll" or have to kill you before you them,

Commandos should be able to take on most things in the game, its an entirely combative perfession.... BH if flawed as well, they should be able to deal with most any PVP, but have a hard time with PVE, or a more of a hard time, but BH vs. Commando, Commando should come out on top Master vs. Master, but it all depends on the player of course too (sorry for rambling on)

Those arer my opinions, I don't like elite perfessions should be judged on skill mod numbers, I think they are more then that,thats the whole point isn't it, sorry if this shouldn't of been posted, but for your research I think my ideas are good ones, I think it'd make a commando still subjectable to PVP, just a hard mofo to mess with, and PVE still be pretty good, and commando tree skills could simply cost more so they don't get as much other options, that'd make them "being the general best fighting machines" fair, (pre-recks more? hell no) at least in my eyes that'd balance it out more, just to say no one perfession say (pistoler) alone should be able to take on a good commando, but a pistoler master combat medic with some TKA points should be open game.... some thing like that, but then again thats combat vs. selling money as well

"Have the two different accuracies for Acid Rifle been fixed (the +10 given at Novice Commando not stacking with those given by the Acid Rifle line)?"

I got Acid Rifle I earlier (I was gonna go for Heavy II, but I wanted to see what Acid Single looked like, I've never see it used...)

I have two separate accuracy mods for Acid Rifle now, one +10 and one +15.