Commando Archive
Thread: What's up Commandos...
1) When attacking a group of targets with a Heavy Weapon that has innate AoE, only the primary target receives full damage. Anything else within the "cone", or area of effect, receives damage equal to 1 point + the elemental damage of the weapon.
2) This happens 100% of the time, with the exception of immediately after server restart. From my understanding, the record for fully-functional AoE working is 7 hours after server restart.
3) It does not appear to matter what Heavy Weapon that we use. This issue is repeatable with all Heavy Weapons that have innate AoE
4) A Heavy Weapon's innate AoE appears to override all other AoE. Therefore, when performing an AoE attack (such as Spray Shot) with a Commando weapon, the problem detailed in 1) occurs.
5) See 4)
[ PHO | Kauri ]
cooperly wrote:
[Combat]
[Combat]
21:52:21 Cooperly attacks a spineflap handmaiden with Ranged Shot using Krayt Flame Thrower and hits for 344 points (303 points of energy damage and 41 points of heat damage). A spineflap handmaiden's armor absorbed 306 points out of 650 possible points of damage.
21:52:21 Cooperly attacks a spineflap handmaiden with Ranged Shot using Krayt Flame Thrower and hits for 42 points (1 points of energy damage and 41 points of heat damage). A spineflap handmaiden's armor absorbed 35 points out of 77 possible points of damage.
21:52:21 Cooperly attacks a spineflap handmaiden with Ranged Shot using Krayt Flame Thrower and hits for 42 points (1 points of energy damage and 41 points of heat damage). A spineflap handmaiden's armor absorbed 35 points out of 77 possible points of damage.
21:52:21 Cooperly attacks a spineflap handmaiden with Ranged Shot using Krayt Flame Thrower and hits for 42 points (1 points of energy damage and 41 points of heat damage). A spineflap handmaiden's armor absorbed 35 points out of 77 possible points of damage.
21:52:21 Cooperly attacks a capper spineflap nest with Ranged Shot using Krayt Flame Thrower and hits for 77 points (1 points of energy damage and 41 points of heat damage).
Serial number 6lc0f0h4
Slice speed lvl 1 Damage lvl 3 Critical Hit lvl 1
Attack speed 2.86
Damage 312-753
Elemental Damage 76
Accuracy Bonus : 1
WOund : 27.99%
SAC 104
EBDPS : 212.75
Message Edited by Helios_SOE on 09-30-2005 01:05 PM
If you are wondering if legacy and non-legacy weapons are affected, its already been tested - its both. It doesnt matter.
Helios_SOE wrote:
cooperly wrote:
[Combat] [Combat]
21:52:21 Cooperly attacks a spineflap handmaiden with Ranged Shot using Krayt Flame Thrower and hits for 344 points (303 points of energy damage and 41 points of heat damage). A spineflap handmaiden's armor absorbed 306 points out of 650 possible points of damage.
21:52:21 Cooperly attacks a spineflap handmaiden with Ranged Shot using Krayt Flame Thrower and hits for 42 points (1 points of energy damage and 41 points of heat damage). A spineflap handmaiden's armor absorbed 35 points out of 77 possible points of damage.
21:52:21 Cooperly attacks a spineflap handmaiden with Ranged Shot using Krayt Flame Thrower and hits for 42 points (1 points of energy damage and 41 points of heat damage). A spineflap handmaiden's armor absorbed 35 points out of 77 possible points of damage.
21:52:21 Cooperly attacks a spineflap handmaiden with Ranged Shot using Krayt Flame Thrower and hits for 42 points (1 points of energy damage and 41 points of heat damage). A spineflap handmaiden's armor absorbed 35 points out of 77 possible points of damage.
21:52:21 Cooperly attacks a capper spineflap nest with Ranged Shot using Krayt Flame Thrower and hits for 77 points (1 points of energy damage and 41 points of heat damage).
Serial number 6lc0f0h4 Slice speed lvl 1 Damage lvl 3 Critical Hit lvl 1 Attack speed 2.86 Damage 312-753 Elemental Damage 76 Accuracy Bonus : 1 WOund : 27.99% SAC 104 EBDPS : 212.75
What's the character/galaxy for this weapon? Is the weapon currently in your inventory?
Message Edited by Helios_SOE on 09-30-2005 01:05 PM
As you can see this kind of damage has no effect whatsoever on a CL80 critter.
This test was done with the character Zyf on Chimaera. Weapons are in his inventory.
Message Edited by TheTemplar2 on 09-30-2005 10:20 PM
Helios_SOE wrote:
cooperly wrote:
[Combat] [Combat]
21:52:21 Cooperly attacks a spineflap handmaiden with Ranged Shot using Krayt Flame Thrower and hits for 344 points (303 points of energy damage and 41 points of heat damage). A spineflap handmaiden's armor absorbed 306 points out of 650 possible points of damage.
21:52:21 Cooperly attacks a spineflap handmaiden with Ranged Shot using Krayt Flame Thrower and hits for 42 points (1 points of energy damage and 41 points of heat damage). A spineflap handmaiden's armor absorbed 35 points out of 77 possible points of damage.
21:52:21 Cooperly attacks a spineflap handmaiden with Ranged Shot using Krayt Flame Thrower and hits for 42 points (1 points of energy damage and 41 points of heat damage). A spineflap handmaiden's armor absorbed 35 points out of 77 possible points of damage.
21:52:21 Cooperly attacks a spineflap handmaiden with Ranged Shot using Krayt Flame Thrower and hits for 42 points (1 points of energy damage and 41 points of heat damage). A spineflap handmaiden's armor absorbed 35 points out of 77 possible points of damage.
21:52:21 Cooperly attacks a capper spineflap nest with Ranged Shot using Krayt Flame Thrower and hits for 77 points (1 points of energy damage and 41 points of heat damage).
Serial number 6lc0f0h4 Slice speed lvl 1 Damage lvl 3 Critical Hit lvl 1 Attack speed 2.86 Damage 312-753 Elemental Damage 76 Accuracy Bonus : 1 WOund : 27.99% SAC 104 EBDPS : 212.75
What's the character/galaxy for this weapon? Is the weapon currently in your inventory?
Message Edited by Helios_SOE on 09-30-2005 01:05 PM
This doesn't matter it's all of us so pick any weapon and log in you can test it yourself.
Message Edited by Kwantiko on 09-30-2005 03:28 PM
Advisor
Posts: 69
Registered: 10-15-2004
1. DAMAGE!!!!!!! we need alot higher dps weapons.....how can we take on the mass aggro that the flamethrower brings on with a 310 dps
2. ATTACKS!!!! Please give us some speacial attacks. without them commando just sucks up ur skill points
3. AOE!!!!! change our AOE to 100% plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Personally, I would say don't waste your time trying to fix innate AOE. Even if it worked, commandos would still be gimped do to the fact that in dungeons, AOE attacks have ALWAYS drawn NPCs from other rooms. Just look how often non-commandos use their AOE specials. As a non-commando,I probably use a cone attack less then 1 out of every 1000 specials I trigger. The layout of dungeons, the mob A.I., and the agro system are just not setup ina way that is condusive to AOE attacks except in very rare circumstances.
A much better fix would be to simply remove innate AOE from all heavy weapons and then give commandos a few single target and AOE special attacks. We already know that AOE specials in other proffessions work with non-heavy weapons, so just copy the code from there, rather than trying to figure out the bugs in a system that isn't even really worth fixing. On top of that, allow heavy weapons to start using powerups. The system for rifles, carbines, and pistols already works pretty well. The best solution would just be to make heavy weapons conform to that system, rather than trying to make them work in a more complicated way.
Imaridril wrote:
Personally, I would say don't waste your time trying to fix innate AOE. Even if it worked, commandos would still be gimped do to the fact that in dungeons, AOE attacks have ALWAYS drawn NPCs from other rooms. Just look how often non-commandos use their AOE specials. As a non-commando,I probably use a cone attack less then 1 out of every 1000 specials I trigger. The layout of dungeons, the mob A.I., and the agro system are just not setup ina way that is condusive to AOE attacks except in very rare circumstances.
A much better fix would be to simply remove innate AOE from all heavy weapons and then give commandos a few single target and AOE special attacks. We already know that AOE specials in other proffessions work with non-heavy weapons, so just copy the code from there, rather than trying to figure out the bugs in a system that isn't even really worth fixing. On top of that, allow heavy weapons to start using powerups. The system for rifles, carbines, and pistols already works pretty well. The best solution would just be to make heavy weapons conform to that system, rather than trying to make them work in a more complicated way.
RankorCity wrote:
Imaridril wrote:
Personally, I would say don't waste your time trying to fix innate AOE. Even if it worked, commandos would still be gimped do to the fact that in dungeons, AOE attacks have ALWAYS drawn NPCs from other rooms. Just look how often non-commandos use their AOE specials. As a non-commando,I probably use a cone attack less then 1 out of every 1000 specials I trigger. The layout of dungeons, the mob A.I., and the agro system are just not setup ina way that is condusive to AOE attacks except in very rare circumstances.
A much better fix would be to simply remove innate AOE from all heavy weapons and then give commandos a few single target and AOE special attacks. We already know that AOE specials in other proffessions work with non-heavy weapons, so just copy the code from there, rather than trying to figure out the bugs in a system that isn't even really worth fixing. On top of that, allow heavy weapons to start using powerups. The system for rifles, carbines, and pistols already works pretty well. The best solution would just be to make heavy weapons conform to that system, rather than trying to make them work in a more complicated way.
/raise!
Truer words hath never been spoken!
Even in a room with a single target, the AoE from the Commando's weapons agros baddies in other rooms (thru walls) to decimate the group.
So much fun!
Not a Commando, so sorry for lurking in your forum, but AOEs don't really work properly anyway, Commando or not. As you've already pointed out they aggro through walls, floors and ceilings. The cone shots extend out beyond the range of the weapon being used and they don't fire in the direction of the thing you are targetting but instead fire in the direction you are facing, which if you are in the middle of a mob can be pretty random.
Anyway, hope you get some love, Commando is a profession that by all accounts is in need of it.
Second,
Good to see you again Helios!
Pretty much our Top Three issues are the same as they were at the end of the Combat Upgrade. However...our primary issues are not quick fixes in the lightest of senses.
If I could snap my fingers...
1) Our Area of Effect problem, we need this fixed
2) The re-evaluation of the Concept of Commando - How are we to be a damage dealer without specials? If everything is tied into our weapons, doesn't that make us harder to balance?
Because we're "deemed" support, we are penalized in the role of a damage dealer. In a melee-Commando template vs a ranged-commando template, the damage disparity is appalling. Unlike other professions, our damage is not consistent.
As a result, we can't stand on our feet or in a melee-template. We're suppoused to be a flexible profession that can stack with others for powerful combos; that flexibility is fundamentally flawed because of our support status. It's like two snakes trying to eat each other. We're stuck in an overpowered/underpowered spin cycle since all our damage flows through our weapons. Make our damage consistent in melee-templates, we'll be overpowered in ranged templates. Keep as is, we're normal in ranged templates but underpowered in melee. It's very contradictory, and needs a significant re-look at.
3) Grenades - The whole concept of using grenades needs a serious re-evaluation.
Please see The Top Issues Thread for more details on these areas.
Lastly...because of #2, many other issues crop up such as the balance of SAC/Speed and our low-damage output (or redundant/not fully useful utility) as well as the problem with weapon diversity in the profession. The "definition" of commando needs to be broader than -just- weapons in order for us to be a true "support"/"combo" template stacker. Any questions or ideas...please ask, there are literally half a dozen threads out there that I can pull up and send directly to you (one which is stickied on top, Commando Verbatim) that could give the internal developers more insight/ideas.
Please Helios, use the community as a potent resource...there are many, -many- good ideas here just waiting to be unearthed or considered...
It is in my opinion that we need to become true to our damage dealing role, and build entirely off of that. Flexible destruction...everything else is secondary, but it is of major importance to preserve our damage. We do have the issue with redundant utilities, or lower weapons being useless, or power ups not working on flamethrowers...but at the very core of things, we need that role to live up to its meaning.
Message Edited by StarNick on 09-30-200505:14 PM
Message Edited by StarNick on 09-30-2005 05:14 PM