Commando Archive
Thread: What to do with our Brawler *Unarmed* Tree?
If your talkin about those profession's corresspondents coming in here to give their OPINION yes. If your talking about inviting everyone in those professions to come in here NO.
"On another note: For those commandos who think we should get rid of the unarmed tree, I encourage you to go try out (1) warcry (10 second delay to all attacks and movement), (2) intimidate (slows attack speed greatly), and (3) center of being (get hit much less). All of these attacks come from novice brawler, and are GREAT additions to the commando class."
That's nice and everything, but we really shouldn't have to resort to unarmed skills when we're supposed to focus on Heavy Weapon/Ranged attacks. My personal reason for wanting to remove/move the unarmed requirement and commando unarmed specials is because of the Flamethrower; we already have a melee-range weapon - adding unarmed attacks is going to be redundant. If anything, I'd like to see the status-changing attacks come from something like grenades, the HAR, or a new repeating weapon.
I dont think you need to dedicate a whole skill tree to unarmed, nore look at having unarmed moves as really being unarmed. For us it should be diferent in TK to where it is not our focal damage to where we unequip our weapon but rather have the marksman and brawler work together while still holding the weapon. Maybe not even do damage but more of a support role to us. Some examples?
1. But-Stroke: cause dizzy, blindnees. better from this than launch pistol I think. does some damage
2. Leg sweep/trip: They get right on you, you knock em on their back. no damage, its a tactical move
3. kick back (lack of name): Again, they get right on you, instead of kd you shove em back 10m (or out of melee range) with a slight delay for them to move back at you again. No damage.
Ok, I say no damage cause they would be more useful for tactics, not offense, this way making us not automatically TK and we're not actually trying to fight melee but rather using the melee we know to give us room for our weapons. The moves could be put into field tactics.
I dont thing they can change the type of XP gained for a line in the profession since there are so many masters that you couldnt just take away that nor would they just give them xp they didnt gain.
I dont think the devswant to go through the coding that is involved and all the editing of the database or deal with those of us that are master, or near master in my case, even a novice for that matter suddenly having the commando skill ripped right out from under their feet cause they dont have the right pre-reqs anymore yelling at em and dropping our accounts now do they?
I think the issue would be either drop unarmed, or make use of it as commando. I personally am not in any way for dropping it. Having that hybrid class gives us some rights in my mind for being tougher than the average joe and I wouldnt have it any other way even without using any of it for more than just a pre-req.
Lord Seck, I almost forgot to say, I back your idea 100% of bringing in other correspondants as a cooperative effort to give their thoughts about all these issues we are talking about and for you to do the same fr them.
If we all work together, maybe we could really influence SWG to be moved in a way that all of us are having fun, and not yelling nerf.
I in no way want to be overpowered cause SOE tends to overkill on the nerf then realize it a couple months later then make you overpowered again then nerf again and so on and so on.
TechnoHic wrote:I dont think you need to dedicate a whole skill tree to unarmed, nore look at having unarmed moves as really being unarmed. For us it should be diferent in TK to where it is not our focal damage to where we unequip our weapon but rather have the marksman and brawler work together while still holding the weapon. Maybe not even do damage but more of a support role to us. Some examples?
1. But-Stroke: cause dizzy, blindnees. better from this than launch pistol I think. does some damage
2. Leg sweep/trip: They get right on you, you knock em on their back. no damage, its a tactical move
3. kick back (lack of name): Again, they get right on you, instead of kd you shove em back 10m (or out of melee range) with a slight delay for them to move back at you again. No damage.
Ok, I say no damage cause they would be more useful for tactics, not offense, this way making us not automatically TK and we're not actually trying to fight melee but rather using the melee we know to give us room for our weapons. The moves could be put into field tactics.
I dont thing they can change the type of XP gained for a line in the profession since there are so many masters that you couldnt just take away that nor would they just give them xp they didnt gain.
This idea is in my opinion is absolutely perfect. It's pretty much what I was trying to get across in my post. I like the idea of kicking back your opponent. The one thing everyone is saying that I don't agree with is a KD for commandos. While it is something that is certainly in the realm of beleivability for a commando to be able to do, every single class cries to have this. If every class in the game had a knockdown, none of the classes would be unique. Commandos should be made distinct by not having to rely on a lame cop-out move like a KD
Everyone's sticking point with commandos is that we are a heavy damage dealing class who tote around heavy weapons. These melee-ish attacks technoHic and others have suggested (Rifle-butt for a blind/dizzy, a shove/kick for some 'breathing space', and a leg sweep for a posture change *NOT a KD*). keep these moves in the Field Tactics line(leave the HAR line alone for a possible change to a LP line) and leave the xp requirement the same, the combat xp needed for Field tactics is a good enough challenge in my opinion. With these changes added, I'd feel more satisfied having worked up the unarmed tree to reach commando.
As for engineering 4 so we can make our own grenades and heavy weapons. Why should we be able to do this and other professions can not? This can not happen, and it's obvious why. It shouldn't even have to be explained. Why would we want to invalidate and undermine the Weaponsmith profession?
That is a VERY VERY good point. Need I say more?
Daker-Naritus wrote:
(3) Engineering - I also think this would be GREAT. Originally, commandos were supposed to be able to make their own weapons...why not add the engineering tree, give us grenade schematics at novice commando, and allow us to make our own grenades? Scouts make their own traps and camps, slicers make their own tools, medics make their own healing packs...why can't we make our own grenades?
I think most people get the unarmed branch and then just stop using the specials but believe me warcry is almost as good as panicshot. its range is 30 meters instead of 60 and it doesnt stick as often unless you get some bio enhance clothing that increases it but its a 10 second delay that can keep you alive long enought to get in close for that flame 2.
Intimidate drops their damage output by half that has saved me many times.
Us smugglers have to have unarmed as well. One of the reasons for it is to make the hybrid professions harder to get then elite professions.
I think people that believe unarmed is useless are just not experienced with the specials we gain from it.
San, thanks for showing up first of all
Okay, the problem I've found is that:
1.) Warcry does not hit many things that are even with us, unless we have those mods added to it, except 3/10 shots. Did this test on same mobs, over many tries, and that's what it averaged out to.
2.) Intimidate has the same miss factor, and the HAM cost for it is pretty high. Without a medic after 5 Intims I'm pretty drained and now in danger of getting Incapped rather quickly.
Overall they ARE nice skills, but rather cost prohibitive in general. I don't know if anyone else experienced these hit/miss ratioss I have. Has anyone?
The unarmed line can neither be dropped or replaced. Commandos are soldiers, and has been mention many a time here in this thread even lowly grunts get basic training in unarmed skills. What commandos need are some form of specials added in with the Field Tactics line that have an unarmed flavor.
Some people have mentioned a disarming move, make it a move requiring you to unequip your weapon and be in melee range. You fire off the move, it unequips whatever weapon your opponent is holding, and gives them a 1 round attack delay so you can haul butt away from them and re-equip your weapon.
Another unarmed-ish move to consider might be a 'kick some dirt in your eye' type move. It could cause blindness and a small intimidate type effect (can't see so your shots that do hit aren't as deadly accurate).
What about a throat punch? Sounds like a dirty cheap shot. Make it a move that dazes you opponent and prevents them from using specials for a few seconds (you just got punched in the troat, that would throw off you concentration a bit, trying to regain your composure and breath properly again).
All of these moves are basically in the vein of getting yourself out of a tight spot. Someone or something is closing in on you, so you drop your weapon for a sec, hit'em with a cheap shot of some sort, and then put some distance between you. These moves would be put on a reuse timer to avoid overuse. I don't think any of this really steps on the realm of other classes too much. In fact it sounds like somethingsemi original that the commando's can lay claim as their own, something to further make them more distinct from all the other professions (I say semi, because smugglers have similar moves, but they are ranged, for commandos they would be at melee range, putting them more at risk if their 'dirty trick' move fails).
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Geevina - Bloodfin
Commano - Master
CH - 2/2/4/0
I like most of your ideas YabboJadams. Good post.
Yeah, I was thinking smuggler as I read your post.
I like the idea of haveing it in the Feild Tactics tree. The differnt moves sound good, we should continue messing with these ideas.
Since you have the pre-reqs, getting some more pistol xp (especially while you're trying to get the 40k combat xp for Novice Commando) to get novice Smuggler, and slicing things up to slicing 4 is cool. Every stack of grenades you pull out hurts more. Even a piddly 20% damage slice on your big-damage frag grenades is a Good Thing (tm).
Just a thought.
-g
