Commando Archive
Thread: What to do with our Brawler *Unarmed* Tree?
There is no point in removing the unarmed requisite. None. The point is to justify it as JohboBocal has said. IF they were to remove it my personal preference would be to require Exploration IV for terrain negotiation since it is unlikely that they would add that to any of the branches of our class. This would free up quite a few xps for me and others who have taken up Scout Exploration IV already.
I am however not advocating such a move. It is ridiculous to even consider it. What we need is for there to be a Commando level justification for having to master unarmed brawler. As it stands now no brawler skill would stand a chance in a melee confrontation with a TK. Not saying that we should for that matter but it would be nice to have at least one unarmed special, weapon, or take down in the Commando tree that builds upon the unarmed branch we have to master.
We are a hybrid class. We should have a"THUG" move that could stun, disarm, or blind an enemy or a "Rambo" type combat knive and skill set that the commando could fall back on in melee combat. Call it "Knife Fighting" or "Assassin Strike".
I would in fact go so far as to say I would be willing to see the HAR go and have the branch replaced with a hybrid hand to hand combatskill setthat would include the use of thepreviously mentioned combat blade. IF not the HAR branch then certainly added to Field Tactics. We need a justification for the xps wasted away in the unarmed branch. Those who say we really benefit from having thisI don'tdisagree, however, the % of benefit compared to the number of XP's spent on unarmed IV are negatively disproportionate. We do NOT get enough "bang for the xp buck" with unarmed IV.Those points could be better spent in other skill trees IMHO.
First of all it is a blue pill
Second of all, it must be creative and sparking debate, because you are debating with me.
Third of all, this thread is for the precise purpose of suggesting what to do with the unarmed tree. Read the title of the post.
Maybe you have misundertood me. I am advocating that the current requirement of the unarmed tree for the COMMANDO have some sort of meaning/benefit. I think we can ALL agree on that.
Changing the requirement to something else would be the worst thing possible.
I'm only making the point of dropping it as an extreme measure for not justifying the unarmed tree. I do not necessarily expect this tree to be dropped, but it definitely sparks debate and gets the creative juices flowing.
Also, thanks you for your reply. It was very clear, precise, and professional. But, please do not use excuses. To make the statement/excuse that "And as far as the skill-point sink is concearned, most (if not all) of the hybrid professions have them." is not good. I respect your opinion, but I must voice mine:
First, I am a commando, I don't care(in these forums) what problems other professions do or don't have. I can go to their forums to discuss those issues.
Secondly, I will repeat, a sink hole, for the sake of a sink hole is awful. Lets put out heads together and come up with a good use for unarmed. Many have given good ideas.
Ok, now more on the point at hand:
I personally do not want to have to grind more unarmed to get specific moves under commando. If I have to, they better be really worth it, because I do not beleive that any of us will be doing any unarmed hits if we can use a Flamer to do massive damage. They would have to be some pretty good unarmed moves to get any of us to use them over the flamer.
The other thing I was thinking was to give the unarmed tree the really good moves, like a good knockdown. This would allow us to have a knockdown and serve a purpose for that tree requirement. Although I would rather have a ranged weapon knockdown, under commando, but that's another topic altogether.
Why do people, even commandos,keep comparing or using BH a a model for the COMMANDO profession.
That's ludicris!!!
I want to fix my profession commando. Let those in the BH profession worry about it in their forums. If your here and your a commando, act like one.
None of this, "well I agree that it would be BEST for the commando profession to not have the unarmed profession, BUT that would not be fair to BH, or the BH's would have an uproar."
WHO CARES if they whine. Let them whine. I hope we can be a bit more professional and worry about bettering our profession and not worrying about what a BH will or won't do. If you care so much about the BH, go to those forums and discuss it there. This is the commando forum. It is for commandos. It is for commandos to discuss their profession, and to help each other out to become better commandos.
It is not to compromise our profession.
Also, terrain negotiation should be in the commando tree. It is, was, or will be in the combat medic tree. We are commando's for goodness sake.
"If the unarmed tree requirement is dropped then their should be another skill sink implemented". Holy mother of all that is good!!! What the hell are you talking about? There should never, and I mean NEVER, be ANY skill sinks in any profession!!! That is just hurtfull to any profession. If it make sense and you get benefits from it, fine. But creating a skill sink, for the hell of creating a skill sink is just plain vile.
If I have the points I should be able to use them where I want. So can anyone else. Don't screw people over just because you don't like it. That is not an excuse.
Don't switch the unarmed requirement with anything. Either drop it, or justify it. Plain and simple.
PLease think!!!
Offer suggestions to make this profession better, not worse. Or are you a different profession and are actively trying to ruin this profession?
I do not mean any offense, but I take it to heart when someone who supposedly is a fellow commando, a comrad, makes suggestions that would actually hurt this or another profession.
PLEASE make positive HELPFULL suggestions to make the commando profession better. If you don't really have any helpful, or original ideas. Its ok, really its ok. Just don't come in here trying to bring us down. If you don't have any suggestions, or solutions, then don't post. We won't be angry with you, we will actually be gratefull.
Oh, and as far as what other professions should or should not have as requirements, this is not the place to worry about that. If I have an issue with the dancer profession, it should be brought up in the dancer forum, NOT HERE.
I love you guys . . .
Tal,
As far as delaying your opponent, isn't that what Warcry does?
I'm still in the marksman tree but I always try to land a Warcay and Intimidate in every fight.
Except it's not very reliable and the duration of how long the warcry animation lasts is almost as long as it delays the enemy. If warcry was to be useful then it'd take 1 second to execute and actually give you a chance to actually follow up with another attack. I've not seen it generally have a lasting effect either.
*Dons his asbestos suit*
Okay all I know about the feeling of let's get it done and worry about what they think later or not at all. But I have been thinking about going to the TKA, Brawler, and Smuggler Correspondants with what we have here.... or at least have them look.
So if we all decide to go with the idea of expanding on our Unarmed skills, to include some "cheap shot" tactics, we have input from those that specialise in these fields. Now I hate to admit it; but getting things done here seems to be part politics. So if we go to the Dev's with the backing of those that already have Unarmed and Cheap Shot skills, it is quite possible things are more likely to be done.
We all worry about our own profession; but I know we all also care about SWG. Let us think about the overall game AND how to make ourselves our own within that world. This is just an idea I have been toying with for a little while; and would never step on everyones toes doing this behind the scenes without brining it up here first. But what would you all think about having their input here too? Yes we would disregard anything that is obviously against any kind of change, but working with them maybe we could find some cool solutions that are useful AND fun to add.
Throw however you feel at me.... not expecting a 100% pleasant response to this; but the input from those that know it best may add something we don't currently see. Heck if we work with them maybe they'd have some cool ideas to add here as well 
( I am able to look at things from many angles; and sometimes looking through another persons eyes will give us something missed 
)
Agreed.
In all honesty though, i really dont see any kind of melee attack that we can be given. Just the mere fact of entering melee for the commando means you failed.
however, we might receive abilities akin to brawler... like warcy and intimidate and CoB that could be commando-like.
an intimidate-like ability (aka, can be used out to 40m) that makes target both blind and stunned (commando relies on shock to attack, so this simulates it nicely).
or a kind of 'debuff' to attack speed of target.. a 'slow' kind of effect? no need to unequip the weapon in hand, the commando 'kicks' the opponent in the 'nads (*evil grin*). target suffers a 50% delay in his attacks for the next 30 seconds.
and instead of warcry (an intimidating, attention getting roar) we should get something... opposite. commando usually operates by stealth ... so how about a 'silence' effect. Aka, you use it on an npc/creature and it will take twice as long to 'find out' where you are attacking it from and run towards you. This would be useful for our heavy weapon attacks
We NEED to the unarmed tree with something to keep us from being just advanced marksman. The unarmed tree is what justifies our greatness...extra skill points spent = extra power.
I don't see anything wrong with the extra tree being unarmed, but I kinda like the following ideas if we HAVE to replace it:
(1) 1 Handed Sword - At novice commando add a special cert for a commando-only combat knife that only we can use (to give the tree a purpose)
(2) Exploration - We should be able to move quickly in the field.
(3) Engineering - I also think this would be GREAT. Originally, commandos were supposed to be able to make their own weapons...why not add the engineering tree, give us grenade schematics at novice commando, and allow us to make our own grenades? Scouts make their own traps and camps, slicers make their own tools, medics make their own healing packs...why can't we make our own grenades?
Has anyone checked out Test Center lately? Would love to see a few more commando there. Normal people just dont understand my desire and need to burn/blow things up
Oh, and in regards to the Unarmed Tree question, I believe here is the answers you guys are looking for:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=TestCenter&message.id=39592&highlight=melee+mitigation#M39592
LordSeckmoth, there is a scheduled hunt on TC tonight, if you are available would like to invite you to come along. The target will beour new and improved Krayts The none juveniles range from 300-450k Ham now.
tac-
I also have been running something else around my little brain. Something akin to what you just mentioned actually. What if we took the HAR out, added the LP to that Tree and some "dirty moves" there or to the Field tree, that could be used while holding our weapons.
That way we keep the hit them and get out of range tricks, but don't fully slip into Brawler. It's a little A and a little B. So what does everyone think of this?
Well niche, as of this moment I do not have access to the Corr Terminal, though I can try later tonight hehe. My fiance and I are going to dinner and to see "The Last Samauri" also. So I'd need to know a time. Funny thing is I was actually thinking of doing that to Test out Heavy Weapons vs Large Targets.
I'm just gonna need:
A FT
RL
HPBC
HLC
etc.
You know... Another thought...
Most people want the unarmed requirement to go away because it doesn't make sense with our skills setup...
Why not just ask for a couple of specialized unarmed moves? Examples:
(1) Headbutt - Perfect for commandos...10 Second Delayand stun/dizzy effect (perfect to complement our 10 second delay after firing a special).
(2) Leg Swipe - Knockdown move.
(3) Knee to Stomach - Posture down.
The possibilities are endless!
LordSeckmoth wrote:
*Dons his asbestos suit*
Okay all I know about the feeling of let's get it done and worry about what they think later or not at all. But I have been thinking about going to the TKA, Brawler, and Smuggler Correspondants with what we have here.... or at least have them look.
So if we all decide to go with the idea of expanding on our Unarmed skills, to include some "cheap shot" tactics, we have input from those that specialise in these fields. Now I hate to admit it; but getting things done here seems to be part politics. So if we go to the Dev's with the backing of those that already have Unarmed and Cheap Shot skills, it is quite possible things are more likely to be done.
We all worry about our own profession; but I know we all also care about SWG. Let us think about the overall game AND how to make ourselves our own within that world. This is just an idea I have been toying with for a little while; and would never step on everyones toes doing this behind the scenes without brining it up here first. But what would you all think about having their input here too? Yes we would disregard anything that is obviously against any kind of change, but working with them maybe we could find some cool solutions that are useful AND fun to add.
Throw however you feel at me.... not expecting a 100% pleasant response to this; but the input from those that know it best may add something we don't currently see. Heck if we work with them maybe they'd have some cool ideas to add here as well
( I am able to look at things from many angles; and sometimes looking through another persons eyes will give us something missed
Ahhh... I just now saw this....great minds think alike...
I think this is the route we should be taking... Our biggest weakness is that all other classes can knockdown/dizzy/insert other status move here to death. Lets just ask for a couple of moves from unarmed skills.
On another note: For those commandos who think we should get rid of the unarmed tree, I encourage you to go try out (1) warcry (10 second delay to all attacks and movement), (2) intimidate (slows attack speed greatly), and (3) center of being (get hit much less). All of these attacks come from novice brawler, and are GREAT additions to the commando class.
For example, with one block of pistoleer, you get pistol whip (knockdown). Pistol whip + warcry = knockdowned for 10 seconds and can't get up. Flame, back up, and by the time they are up you are ready to flame again.
More simply, warcry + flame = the person burns for 10 seconds (almost your whole delay) and you get to flame again before they get to attack.
Also, center of being before entering any encounter means that BH fire knockdown will miss a lot more.
I think we should try to augment our unarmed abilities instead of abandoning them...