Commando Archive

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Prereqs aren't really going to be useful, anyhow.

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On the contrary, the Devs want profession pre-reqs to reflect the abilities of the profession that those requirements lead up to. This was a part of the response I recieved in regards to the confirmation of our current role being only "support".

The thing I have with a Trapping pre-req is...well, our grenades aren't traps. The whole debate over Ranger getting explosives would, I'd say, be roused once again if we had the Trapping pre-req without a mine or explosive trap to our name...

They're two seperate worlds, one's stealthy and static...the other mobile and heavy hitting. That's also something the dev's want to keep, unique pre-reqs for unique roles.

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Having a Brawler pre-req is silly. Switching weapons in combat is suicide. Commando is geared toward ranged. Since when could you use a Rocket Launcher in melee except for a weak Firearm Strike?

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Just a FYI, even though our UA IV right now is a big burden (aside from giving us the general melee mods in the Explosives tree)...I don't think calling anything that relates directly to the profession, on the commando forums, silly...is very smart thing for your safety...if you catch my drift

Seriously...Commando was always ment to be "the ultimate" in fighting efficiency and power, hence for the UA IV requirement. Back when BH and Commando were the two top skillpoint professions in the game, what set us apart (and gave us more leverage...although, that didn't quite work to our plans) was the fact that we were all combat while BH wasn't. We were orientated around the "blowing of stuff up" and wreaking havoc...while the BH's were to be a potent force, but one that was a bit more sly and could hunt down his prey.

In my opinion, that still rings true. We have barely anything that can connect to a scout pre-req, because commando's aren't hunters or leaders or stealthy infiltrators...but grizzled guys that have big guns and a few tricks up their sleeves to leave you with only half a torso. Sticking with the UA IV, and bringing our overall concept to how it was prescribed to us in the CU Documents...is perhaps the best way to go. Our original idea is still there; it just needs some more work.

<- Calls them like he sees them

But I am wrong, from time to time.

Yes, I played Pre-CU too. I was an MBH within the first couple months. What a pain. No droids working, forget about having vehicles, only major city shuttleports to use for transport.

Commandos were a lot more common. They were absolutely fantastic in dungeons during PvE. In PvP they were a force too.

Now, I _could_ see Trapping IV for Commando, and I should expect that a reasonable person would too, if say Commando were to obtain some PvP/humanoid traps or explosives of their own. For instance, Ranger has a range of 'passive' traps. Something the Ranger sets up and creates a trigger for, and once said trigger is met, it goes off.

Perhaps the Commando would have more 'active' devices. Like mines which simply do raw damage, or something of that ilk.

(In addition: Devs may have stated that they want prereqs to reflect the profession's abilities. Ok, so commandos are bad mutha's. With flamethrowers. And rocket launchers. And grenades (well...) I don't see where throwing elbows comes into play. I mean, speaking strictly in the sense of video game mechanics, we could get all geeky here and start talking about how it is the movies or in real life. By the way, I'm in the military, and yes you do get trained in hand-to-hand fighting, with the knowledge that if it comes down to hand-to-hand things have gone seriously wrong and you're pretty much a grease-spot anyway. Your rifle is your only friend. Your mind and your rifle aremost importantweapons. Fists, eh... good for bar-room brawls. The martial arts training is more about cultivatinga certain 'warrior spirit.')

Message Edited by MohdriDarkstar on 10-01-2005 12:18 AM

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(In addition: Devs may have stated that they want prereqs to reflect the profession's abilities. Ok, so commandos are bad mutha's. With flamethrowers. And rocket launchers. And grenades (well...) I don't see where throwing elbows comes into play.)

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An old idea (that Ryubushi recently brought up) would be giving us a bayonet-esque add-on to our weapons. If we're truly defined by our weapons, why not let us add-on specific components? (A la Republic Commando)

Also, don't forget that we were originally going to get the massassi knucklers as a commando melee weapon - so the idea of rubbing elbows *was* in the original design. It just got screwed up somewhere along the line.

Now, in my personal opinion...if we ever can get the solution to our Issue #1, where short ranged weapons would have the innate AoE, while longer ranged weapons more single target.

1 - It is fact that we will always see limited AoE as long as they are innate. However, the AoE percentages are supposed to increase as the range decreases.

2 - This is where our UA IV is further reflected - we're not set in just one range. The closer we get to a target, the more hell we can dish out (a lot like pre-CU too I may add). But we're still destructive in medium and long ranges to boot - adding to our flexibility.

It might be a bit of a stretch, but if you think about it...Pistoleer is short range, but is on the lower spectrum of damage. We could potentially be devastating in short range, like a swordsman for example...just, ranged. This would only be a minor reflection, but a reflection nevertheless...and we almost got there.

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Now, I _could_ see Trapping IV for Commando, and I should expect that a reasonable person would too, if say Commando were to obtain some PvP/humanoid traps or explosives of their own. For instance, Ranger has a range of 'passive' traps. Something the Ranger sets up and creates a trigger for, and once said trigger is met, it goes off.

Perhaps the Commando would have more 'active' devices. Like mines which simply do raw damage, or something of that ilk.

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Mind if I ask you a question...have you ever been a commando before? I don't want to sound rude, but just because you think another profession would be better off taking up certain pre-reqs, doesn't mean the guys that play it all agree on it...

Anyways, it has been pretty much cleared up that Rangers will be getting some sort of traps whether they be explosive or bear trap-esque. As far as a mine consisting of raw damage dealing power (or as we want...satchal charges or demo charges), those would fit perfectly in our Explosives tree because they're only for damage. You don't lay those suckers out as traps, you use 'em to blow stuff up. Now, thats where the "ultimate demolitionist" comes into play...get Ranger/Commando, and then you can blow stuff up -and- use those explosives as traps.

Message Edited by StarNick on 10-01-2005 12:22 AM

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StarNick wrote:

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Just a FYI, even though our UA IV right now is a big burden (aside from giving us the general melee mods in the Explosives tree)...I don't think calling anything that relates directly to the profession, on the commando forums, silly...is very smart thing for your safety...if you catch my drift

Seriously...Commando was always ment to be "the ultimate" in fighting efficiency and power, hence for the UA IV requirement. Back when BH and Commando were the two top skillpoint professions in the game, what set us apart (and gave us more leverage...although, that didn't quite work to our plans) was the fact that we were all combat while BH wasn't. We were orientated around the "blowing of stuff up" and wreaking havoc...while the BH's were to be a potent force, but one that was a bit more sly and could hunt down his prey.

In my opinion, that still rings true. We have barely anything that can connect to a scout pre-req, because commando's aren't hunters or leaders or stealthy infiltrators...but grizzled guys that have big guns and a few tricks up their sleeves to leave you with only half a torso. Sticking with the UA IV, and bringing our overall concept to how it was prescribed to us in the CU Documents...is perhaps the best way to go. Our original idea is still there; it just needs some more work.

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StarNick, no offense intended. You have held on tightly to the ideal of the possibilities of the UAIV pre-req making commando powerful and unique. Garvin held the same point of view before you. SOE did the CU. SOE has had months and months and months since the CU. SOE has failed to deliver anything beneficial on the ideals of the Ranged/Unarmed hybrid-ness of Commando. Utterly and completely. I don't dispute the possibilities, but the reality is that SOE just can't deliver the goods in the current gameplay mechanics.

We are a ranged profession based on the CU since we have NO specials of our own. We need to spend skillpoints to "buy" specials, unlike every other profession. Our innate specials flat out don't work, but I digress. Changing the pre-req to abandon the possibilities of a beneficial UAIV ideal for a reality of easier access NOW to more effective ranged templates (Scout pre-req, additional marksman pre-req, whatever) is the only SHORT TERM solution to make Commando effective with our EXISTING weapon set.

While I appreciate the strong clutching to how cool it could have been, it will require a lot more effort to code a proper and meaningful use for the UAIV prereq into the Commando profession than I believe SOE would ever intend to invest, or could deliver quickly and correctly.

So once again, no offense. The profession needs a tourniquet to stop the bleeding, and moving away from UAIV could do that.

Keep the UAIV, it fits Commando better than scout and definitely better than medic Just let Commandos do melee specials at 5m with a Heavy Weapon equipped. If the Unarmed Pre-Req must go then I wouldn't mind Master Marksman IF they improved Commando enough to justify the SP sink. In other words, we would have to be better at combat than a BH (because of the higher number of SP used in pre-reqs). A Master Marksman Pre-req wouldn't leave much left over after a double mastery and still makes a triple mastery impossible.

HEY!!!!

I started a thread about this a week ago, with a suggestion-- moving the requirement to Scout 0400, and like NOBODY posted there, lol. Looking at the new Ranger skill tree, it does seem like both Ranger and Commando have reasonable reasons to ask for the trapping. Rangers will still use items called traps, and commando's will still throw consumables, like scouts. Hunting no longer makes sense for a Ranger-pre-req and a lot of people want to see Rangers get Ranged Support IV rather than carbines. We can't have overlapping pre-reqs, so this is a difficult change.

So we could have Rangers take trapping and either carbines, rifles pistols or RS. but that would mean that commando would have to take trapping and a different weapon. You could have Rangers take Carbines IV + Exploration IV, as the devs have suggested, or you could have commandos' take rifles IV and trapping IV. In other words there are a lot of options out there for ways to set this up.

I'd lvoe to see Commando as a Scout/Marksman hybrid, though I admit that view is entirely self-serving because I'm creating a Ranger/Commando on Bloodfin and that would free up a buncha skillpoints. Much like the Ranger changes, I wouldn't want to hurt those people who choose brawler to augment their commando. I hate the idea of making my template better at the expense of others, so while I'd love to see a scout/marksman commando to pair up with my Ranger, I'd hesitate to change it just so I can have an awesome template. What about the people who choose a non-standard template? Do we just tell them "too bad"?

Scout traps line makes more sense to the commando. Who has an entire line of throwing grenades. The traps in this game are very much thrown grenades for animals only.

I would be ok with the Brawler Pre-req IF, we get to do Meele specials with COMMANDO weapon at meele range (some one using a Heavy weapon/Special Heavy Weapon could do Armor Break at 4m and or run a CoB macro while they had that weapon out.

I like the possibilities the UA line has, CoB with heavy weapons equiped or Armor breakin melee range. Right now i have Swords and Commando and survive better then when i was all ranged simply becuase of CoB and Armor break, combine those with a working AoE and maybe some of our oun specials and we will be excellent damage dealers and getting in the face of the dude with the PFT would be a very bad idea

I would rather see them stick with unarmed than go scout.

I see that the only prof currently using rifles as a prereq is rifleman, while pistols has Smuggler , and carbines looks to have Ranger soon.

So

Unarmed > scout

ranged(rifles) > unarmed

or in other words don't change it unless they go with a ranged prof.

Anything in scout or marksman would be nice, but I would not mind unarmed 4 if it indeed did something for commando in some way, shape, or form -- switching pre-reqs might be the easy way out. I guess its just a matter of whether or not we "settle" for the easy way out. Do we fit the pre-reqs to commando or do we fit commando more to the pre-reqs?