Commando Archive
Thread: I can't believe CM's are cryin about it!
Page 4 of 4
StarNick
Thu Aug 12, 2004 5:47 pm
#40
Btw to comment on what I posted....Im only calling them spoiled cuz they're complaining so bad about being 1 trick ponies..meanwhile for 13 months commando was just that....(in relation to SkillPoints...yes there are some professions that are in our boat as well, but nonetake the amount of Skillpoints as we do)
Comparing them to us to me just doesnt seem right...especially as skillpoints as well as the sheer length of time of us being in this state that they're now in....(our "golden era" was much shorter than theirs btw). Our community only really blew up like how they are now back when we took enough nerfs (more than 1) and enough silence for maaaannny months....[I say we have more dignity than them! There, i said it!! 
]
]Message Edited by StarNick on 08-12-2004 08:48 PM
TKA-MC
Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:39 am
#41
SolSpur guess what. We've been nerfed longer, nuf said. Feel free to post what ever you want.
Syzygy-Gorath
Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:55 am
#42
It's kind of funny to me seeing this here. See, I was a Master Combat Medic for a good, long time. I was a master when the DoT nerf went through and CMs lost the ability to incap with poisons, the only viable weapon open to "us." I was a master when they tried to nerf range the first time. I was a master when advanced resilience compounds were fixed and when mind healing went in. Now I'm a Master Commando. I've played as a Master Swordsman, Master Pikeman, Teras Kasi Master. I've dabbled Rifleman, Pistoleer, Carbineer, and Fencer. I'm a Master Smuggler and Master Doctor and various other crafting/entertaining professions. In short, I'd like to think I understand most of the professions because I've played most of them, with the notable exception of Bounty Hunter.
Anyway, the point is, we're all pretty much alike. The complaints I hear from commandos about the FT and the uselessness of all other weapons—which I agree with—are about the same as the complaints I heard in the CM community at the time of the DoT nerf. And I was one of the CMs complaining at the time. I didn't and don't think that a CM's abilities are worth the skill points they're required to spend, especially in light of the recent innoculation changes. I don't think commando is worth the skill points we're required to spend on it. But I enjoyed playing a CM, and I'm enjoying playing a commando.
In the end, this is a game, and we do what's fun. I have fun trying new things and learning new professions, which is why despite not being a hologrinder I've mastered and played 14 professions and dabbled another 8. Could it be people are complaining about an I Win button? Sure, some of them probably are. But there are others who enjoy the profession and want to play it, and they're complaining because they feel as if they're being forced to find something else if they want to be effective. That's no different than the complaints we as commandos make, or the complaints that the smugglers are making, or squad leaders, or any of the other horrifically broken professions.
P.S. C'mon Dys, let 'em be, even if only as a favor for your favorite former CM, who kept your butt alive more times than either of us can count. 
nbd9k
Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:59 am
#43
My 2 cents:
1. hold your punches for a second for this one. combat medic is a profession designed to provide aid on the battlefield. the problem is, noone used it like that. CMs have recently focused primarily on things like mass poison attacks, a skill that they excel at. no matter who protests, ive seen it with my own eyes. a team of 20 of us on a pvp mission were completely destroyed by 1CM and a rifleman. 20 on 2 and they killed us all. now im not sure exactally what they were doing to pull that off, because ive never been anythnig but a commando, but those kind of attacks impress the crap out of me. this leads me to believe that its only natural that the DEVs would nerf something like that. after all:
--------whenever a profession shows a heavy reliance on a powerful weapon or attack, its nerfed within a month-------
2. should CMs be "crying" about it? maybe a little. heck, as commandos we spend ALL of our time complaining. but keep in mind the profession is combat medic, not combat mind poisoner. they have a bevy of other skills that make them extremely useful on the battlefield.the thing is,poison is only really useful in PvP. any CM knows the nightmare poison causes on the corvette or in the DW bunker. that entire aspect of their profession is worthless in PvE. this means that on their own, CMs are practically defenseless. and thats not really fair.
3. conclusion: Rather than getting into arguements about who has been nerfed more, we should all band together and beat these issues into the DEVs with a big stick.
GARVIN- i recomend getting in contact with the combat medic rep and working together to bring our case to the DEVs. its easy to ignore one person. but 2, 3, 10... it gets harder and harder.
FELLOW COMMANDOS- be on the lookout for other professions that are getting nerfed. maybe we can recruit them to our cause.
Harvard ferrier
master commando, master TK
bria server.
yep, i too am boycotting JTL until the combat rebalance. shouldnt all commandos?
Vader-dc
Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:52 am
#44
I just wanted to take a moment and comment about the CM nerf in relation to the xp/sp used to acquire the profession.
Where does a bulk of CMs xp/sp go to before novice? Into a HEALING profession. It is rediculous to think that just because you have one line of a combat profession you should have some UBER combat role. I have taken the same stance on the topic of BH before they were no longer required to have Master Scout. Scout is not a combat profession and neither is Medic. If you actually look where xp/sp is used then you will notice that Commando alone uses the most combat related xp and invests their sp in the most combat fields. CMs are primarily a healing class otherwise they wouldn't use 77 sp in Medic and only 29 in Marksman. What does this tell you about the profession? Not only that but also you need medical xp to get Novice CM not combat xp. You should not be the end all combat profession with such a small amount invested into actual combat related professions, in pvp OR pve.
I think that is about all I have to say for now.
Where does a bulk of CMs xp/sp go to before novice? Into a HEALING profession. It is rediculous to think that just because you have one line of a combat profession you should have some UBER combat role. I have taken the same stance on the topic of BH before they were no longer required to have Master Scout. Scout is not a combat profession and neither is Medic. If you actually look where xp/sp is used then you will notice that Commando alone uses the most combat related xp and invests their sp in the most combat fields. CMs are primarily a healing class otherwise they wouldn't use 77 sp in Medic and only 29 in Marksman. What does this tell you about the profession? Not only that but also you need medical xp to get Novice CM not combat xp. You should not be the end all combat profession with such a small amount invested into actual combat related professions, in pvp OR pve.
I think that is about all I have to say for now.
TKA-MC
Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:08 am
#45
Vader-dc wrote:"I just wanted to take a moment and comment about the CM nerf in relation to the xp/sp used to acquire the profession.
Where does a bulk of CMs xp/sp go to before novice? Into a HEALING profession. It is rediculous to think that just because you have one line of a combat profession you should have some UBER combat role. I have taken the same stance on the topic of BH before they were no longer required to have Master Scout. Scout is not a combat profession and neither is Medic. If you actually look where xp/sp is used then you will notice that Commando alone uses the most combat related xp and invests their sp in the most combat fields. CMs are primarily a healing class otherwise they wouldn't use 77 sp in Medic and only 29 in Marksman. What does this tell you about the profession? Not only that but also you need medical xp to get Novice CM not combat xp. You should not be the end all combat profession with such a small amount invested into actual combat related professions, in pvp OR pve.
I think that is about all I have to say for now."
Where does a bulk of CMs xp/sp go to before novice? Into a HEALING profession. It is rediculous to think that just because you have one line of a combat profession you should have some UBER combat role. I have taken the same stance on the topic of BH before they were no longer required to have Master Scout. Scout is not a combat profession and neither is Medic. If you actually look where xp/sp is used then you will notice that Commando alone uses the most combat related xp and invests their sp in the most combat fields. CMs are primarily a healing class otherwise they wouldn't use 77 sp in Medic and only 29 in Marksman. What does this tell you about the profession? Not only that but also you need medical xp to get Novice CM not combat xp. You should not be the end all combat profession with such a small amount invested into actual combat related professions, in pvp OR pve.
I think that is about all I have to say for now."
_________________________________________________________________________________
I like you. Good point! /salute
Syzygy-Gorath
Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:54 am
#46
I'm not going to argue one way or the other about what sort of combat abilities CMs should or should not have. I will, however, say this: yes, we/they are a healing class, but with buffs as they stand that healing is all but useless except in the highest-end combat. Now, I understand that this will be changing in the CB when/if it happens. But in the mean time, that leaves CMs with some very special case abilities. I don't know about you, but with buffs and armor I'm capable of running everything in the game except the Corvette and DWB without requiring a single heal. So once again CMs are back in the same boat as commandos—they spend just as many skill points for abilities that, due to other tweaks and balances, are wholly superfluous. Now their one strength—warranted or not—has been greatly reduced. What sort of reaction should we expect? They haven't been needed as healers since buffs became ubiquitous, so they fell back on poisons. Now those are superfluous as well.
Like I said, I'm not saying whether CMs should or shouldn't be offensive powerhouses, I'm just saying that was all they had, and now it's gone. We shouldn't be arguing with them or belittling them, we should be working together with them as a fellow combat class that's reliant on DoTs for the bulk (in their case entirety) of inflicted damage. Just my $0.02…
Vader-dc
Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:02 am
#47
I was just trying to point out that the amount of xp/sp that CMs actually invested in combat related skills was minimal compared to other classes and the damage they inflicted in pvp did not reflect that fact before this nerf.
Is CM broken? I have no idea, I've never been one. I will admit that I find it amusing that the complaints are about not being able to deal tons of damage in pvp as opposed to some of their other deficiencies. What this tells me is that a majority of people complaining were FotM templates only interested in the class for the pvp damage they could inflict. Give it a few days, the complaints of pvp damage reduction will quiet as those FotM templates are switched over to other professions and then you will see what real issues the CMs have.
Is CM broken? I have no idea, I've never been one. I will admit that I find it amusing that the complaints are about not being able to deal tons of damage in pvp as opposed to some of their other deficiencies. What this tells me is that a majority of people complaining were FotM templates only interested in the class for the pvp damage they could inflict. Give it a few days, the complaints of pvp damage reduction will quiet as those FotM templates are switched over to other professions and then you will see what real issues the CMs have.
Syzygy-Gorath
Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:06 am
#48
Vader-dc wrote:
I was just trying to point out that the amount of xp/sp that CMs actually invested in combat related skills was minimal compared to other classes and the damage they inflicted in pvp did not reflect that fact before this nerf.
Is CM broken? I have no idea, I've never been one. I will admit that I find it amusing that the complaints are about not being able to deal tons of damage in pvp as opposed to some of their other deficiencies. What this tells me is that a majority of people complaining were FotM templates only interested in the class for the pvp damage they could inflict. Give it a few days, the complaints of pvp damage reduction will quiet as those FotM templates are switched over to other professions and then you will see what real issues the CMs have.
Some of the complaints are indeed from FotMs. But the outcry does not indicate that all those feeling the pain are FotMs. As I said earlier, I've been a lot of things in my time in SWG. I've seen a lot of professions with problems, and a lot of the outcry wasn't about the underlying profession issues…not because that wasn't the focus that the profession wanted to take, but because they had asked for fixes to those problems again and again and were ignored. So rather than beat a dead horse they ask for fixes in systems that are currently in flux. It's all a matter of picking those battles that you have a chance of getting to the field for, let alone winning.
Vader-dc
Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:19 am
#49
Right, but do you feel that the amount of damage that CMs were dealing in pvp was in sync with the amount of combat related xp/sp invested into the profession. If you can honestly say yes to this then I think many people will be amazed. Most of CM's xp/sp is devoted to healing I know this for a fact. Perhaps CMs that are truly interested in the profession for what it is supposed to be should complain there isn't enough opportunity to use their healing skills rather than their combat skills.
Vader-dc
Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:33 am
#50
As I said before we should give this whole topic a while to set in. After a week or 2 come back and see just how many of the initial posters are still CMs and how many have gone on to other templates. You could even go and look at which of the people starting threads have complained about other issues and how many have not. I'm not saying everyone who complains is a FotM, but you have to realize that there are a lot of FotM templates out there that this nerf affected. Naturally they are going to come complain at first but then they will move on with other professions.
Message Edited by Vader-dc on 08-13-2004 12:35 PM
shutout
Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:27 am
#51
wow, how'd this argument end up here? lol
anyways, i guess i'll put in my 2 creds.
should this nerf have happened? yes. should it have happened like this? probably not. make no mistake, combat medics were extremely overpowered in pvp. they had an "i win" button that could take out a whole raiding party. there's people on my server with 1400 mind tick poison. 2 ticks and most are dead. but to have their effectiveness be brought down to about the effectiveness of our consumable heavy weapons was a bit much. area cures? great idea. innoculations? great idea. both at the same time? man that's harsh. just as garvin said, its as bad as our dot nerf along with fire blankets.
now, everyone cried that commandos were overpowered, so we got nerfed. everyone complained that CM's were overpowered, and they got nerfed. the big difference i saw was, if i hit someone with /flamesingle2, if they were buffed, they could outlive my dot. chances are, with as slow a weapon as we had, and as inaccurate as it was, we'd only hit them with one dot and either we'd be dead or they'd be dead. but if they were buffed, then they could outlive the flame dot and continue fighting. follow that up with being near water to put out the flames, and they had a greater chance of living (sucks if you were on tattooine though ).
).now, ifa combat medic hits you with a mind poison, you're probably going to die. even if you're dancer and musician buffed with 2 brandies, a canape, some muon, and all your stats migrated to the mind (and being human to have the highest mind stats possible) its hard to keep up with the poisons/diseases you'd have on you. and if you by chance incapped the cm before you died, and were a teras kasi master, you still won't be able to meditate the dots off in time. (one time, it took me 20 minutes to meditate off a poison dot. that was nasty). also, add to the fact that you can heal your health a heck of a lot easier than healing your mind, and you see the problem.
next up for the nerfbat will be rifleman. i see it coming. i dropped commando and became a rifleman myself, and i know we're overpowered. (a little less now with all the stun armor and imperial PSG's out there). i even went on a pvp crusade to show just how overpowered this class is. the only times i've died in pvp as a rifleman were to a jedi and to a cm before the nerf. so, what they'll probably do with rifleman, seeing the pattern in the way SOE "fixes" things is to reduce the speed of the rifle attacks, add stun protection to all armor, and maybe make it so novice medics can heal the mind. will that suck? yes it will. will i quit the game? probably not. i'll just come up with something else to be more effective, and maybe, just maybe everyone will be nerfed enough so that we're all dying to kreetles on tattooine. then i'll grind my way back up to commando, because that's what i wanted to be when i first got the game, and i honestly miss the profession. its just not very effective right now (pvp and pve).
one last thought. yes, CM's do spend as many skill points as commandos and bounty hunters on their profession. yet, only commandos spend that many skill points on pure combat related skills. therefore, commandos should be more dominant in battle. CM's should be more dominant in healing during battle. and i guess bounty hunters should be more adverse in....uh.....running up hills during battle .
.
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