Commando Archive

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TechnoHic wrote:

Fire Extinguisgers: Id like to see it made to where not everyone can use it. Whover can use one, make it a 4 delay of not being able to fight back. This lets them put out the flame if they win, and allows us to reapply the DoT at master level in the time it takes them to do it. If they want to be busy using the Fire extingisher, then they'll just have us ht em with our initial damage again so it would be wasting their time to do it while still fighting us.

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This isn't enough...other bleeds take MUCH more than 4 seconds to cure because they take multiple applications. Basically, if you want any other bleed healed you have to (a) have a dedicated doctor apply medicine multiple times, or (b) wait until combat is over, because healing 4 to 5 times during combat isn't an option.

If you are saying 4 second delay PLUS multiple applications, I might reluctantly agree. But this is yet another dangerous concession.

Bottom line: We do the same damage as everyone else. We REQUIRE a more powerful dot. If out dot is going to be resisted just like every other dot, that means that it needs to be as hard as hell to heal. The fact that you can already put out dot out with water REQUIRES fire extinguishers to (1) be very expensive, (2) to have REALLY long delays and take a LARGE number of applications, and (3) be usuable only by doctors. Anything else lowersour class back to worthlessness.

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LordSeckmoth wrote:

Now it's my turn to play Devil's Advocate and point out the reasoning behind this:

The problem with our DoT is that it does way more than any bleed, and the wounds caused by it are also quite bad. I do agree though there needs to be some protection against Disease, because that is just as bad right now, and it can take out the not easily healed Mind Pool.

Now I can see the reasoning behind our DoT needing a fix; it really does need one, but the major problem is we don't have any other viable weapons besides the FT. So if we get a full fix with our other weapons; we should be okay. So the major issue is we need to be fixed before or at the same time this would be implimented...

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I STILL don't think this justifies the nerf... I think it is obvious that the devs haven't played commandos, and don't realize how HUGE our shortcomings are. We REALLY need to educate the devs. or they are going to really screw us up.

Yes our dot does more damage than any other dot. However that is justified by the facts that:

(1) We get no resists...big damage is the only way we survive;

(2) We get no status specials...we cannot blind or knockdown/dizzy to stay alive; and

(3) Most importantly, we do the SAME OR LESS actual damage than other classes because of our huge delays on specials.

Our SOLE, ONLY advantage is our dot.

Whereas other classes that take less than HALF as many skill points get all kind of HUGE resistances and powerful specials, we get ONLY ONE...the flame dot.

Really it is irrelevent if our acid rifle and other weapons are fixed...we will STILL do less damage than other classes (whether we use a flamer, acid rifle, or launcher).

Here is TH's problem...he takes a cursory glance through our Top 5 thread and thinks he knows what the hell is going on. In our Top 5, some commandos were saying that EITHER (1) our flame dot needs to be subject to resistances OR (2) there needs to be fire extinguishers. TH twisted this info and is now acting like players want BOTH (I am so mad at him for this idiocy that I can barely stand it).

Fact is, what he is pusing to the devs is for us to (1) do the same or less damage as other classes, (2) have a resistable dot that works just like the dots of other classes, (3) have less resistances than other classes, (4) have less status specials than other classes, and (5) have our dot be easier to put other than other classes through both water and medics (and with a single application the way he is sounding). This is pure lunacy considering the huge skill point investment all of us make on combat. We are simply getting nerfed back into sub-par worthlessness.

Bottom line: Only ONE of the following is acceptable: (1) Havethe dot be subject to resistances, OR (2) give doctors (NOT medics)the ability to heal it.

Anything else puts us WAY SUB-PAR to every other combat class. This is true EVEN if our other weapons are fixed. The HAR is a flamer that does less damage and has no dot...it is outmatched by the damage of other classes. The launcher is crappy compared to the stats of almost every pistol in the game. Our grenades and rocket launchers are so **edit** expensive and hard to find, the we all have to be millionaires to regularally use them.

The proposed changes are simply unacceptable, and it is obvious TH is proposing TOTAL CRAP to the devs and misrepresenting it as player endorsed info. Again, this is totally unaccepable.

I would say you got it covered LordS. I really dont want any lamo just stoping the burn, and since we are heavily dependent on our DoT as ar CMs, the CMS like you said require a doctor to cure the disease so we should require a doctor for our burn. I got diseased by a sulfuric mynok last night, sat in the hospital meditating for 1 hour and a half to combat the wounds and it didnt go away until I got lucky and a friend of mine thats a doctor got on.

I would still like to know, since they are going through these DoT attacks, if we are ever going to get defenses to disease and poison, and if our melee/ranged defense is ever going to help us prevent being hit by it. Only seems fair to me.

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LordSeckmoth wrote:

and the wounds caused by it are also quite bad.

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By the way...please don't forget that other classes' dots cause bad wounds too. I had a pistoleer dot me last night, and a single shot hit me for 120 strength wounds.

Now I will admit that this is a high amount of wounds, and that bleed wounds are usually 50-60 per shot. However, it is obvious that they only reason our wounds are getting lip service is that they are readily visible on the ham bar, whereas the wounds caused by other classes' dotsare only visible when you later view the secondary stats screen.

If you are proposing that the devs bring our wounds back in line with every other class or less, you are proposing the exact thing that TH is...nerf us to worse than classes that spend half the skill points that we do.

The biggest problem is that those who would have our DoT nerf'd fail to see the bigger picture:

1) We have more restrictions when it comes to our DoT then any other dot:

• Range restiction of 16m


• Natural unlimited way to put out that anyone, not matter profession or level can put it out (water)


• Long timer delay on anything we do after using the special...hit or miss


• Least amount of accuracy when compared to other professions with DoTs

2) We cost more skill points then other professions that have DoTs. We are after all a Hybrid profession.

3) We only have one dependable weapon with it's own commando specials.

4) Most of our other weapons are consumable, hard to find, use rare resources, and cost a large amount when compared to the number of shots they provide.

Yes...we have the most powerful DoT...but when you look at what we deal with because of it, doesn't seem like we are actually getting short hand...we SHOULD have the most powerful DoT and more...

This is the Bigger Picture folks...take a good look...

Actually, using first aid to heal yourself in combat isn't all that difficult. I do it all the time while doing faction missions. You don't focus on healing your bleed since it's instantaneous instead of on a delay like stims. You pop a first aid on yourself, tag your target with a special or two, first aid again, rinse and repeat changing anything on the fly as you need to such as queueing a heal or something. Oh, you really need some muon or the like or you'll run out of mind seriously quick though. The thing is, you have to be medic in order to do that. Not everyone has enough medic skill to heal bleeds though most people have at least novice medic these days. That's the only way good way I could see an extinguisher being implemented if it was limited to a certain profession. Even then it doesn't account for our dot being put out by running into a body of water (if anybody else points out tatooine I'm going to make them a eunich...). In reality, the extinguisher would need to be even more limited than /firstaid for that very reason. One out of ten planets not having significant amounts of water is not a good reason to **edit** us over. You don't like burning to death on tatooineDON"T FIGHT A FIRE WEILDING PLAYER ON ADESERT PLANET! common sense people... jeez

Now it's my turn to play Devil's Advocate and point out the reasoning behind this:

The problem with our DoT is that it does way more than any bleed, and the wounds caused by it are also quite bad. I do agree though there needs to be some protection against Disease, because that is just as bad right now, and it can take out the not easily healed Mind Pool.

Now I can see the reasoning behind our DoT needing a fix; it really does need one, but the major problem is we don't have any other viable weapons besides the FT. So if we get a full fix with our other weapons; we should be okay. So the major issue is we need to be fixed before or at the same time this would be implimented.

Also I have to agree that if anyone can use the Fire Extinguisher, that is a serious blow, hitting our profession directly. Bleeds need a TKA *which is limited in when they can heal* or a Medic *or above* to heal, and take time to do so. Disease needs a Doctor and only a Doctor can stop it.... so this needs some serious debate before it's implimented.

They want to put in fire extinguishers? Fine, double our range, accuracy and speed on the Flame Thrower. I would like to be able to hit before I am laying on the ground from a KD.

Now, I am not going to lie or misleed with my PVP record being 28 - 4, mostly solo, but I generally get the drop on people when I kill them. Like hanging out by recruiters, going to areas where people take missions, going through cantinas, med centers and starports for fun.

Normally one rocket launcher to thier bike to disable it, and burst run into close range while they are suprised does them in, but if they start running, they can put bleeds on me, without me being able toheal the dot. Why should they get to run out of my range and be able to stop my DOT?

If it takes a doctor or a combat medic, it will be different, but they should not be able to apply it on themselves. Period.

I have been hit with three flame dots, and I have not died from one yet, and I didn't even run towards water. Take off your armor, sit down and just spam damage and wound heals.

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C-H-U-D wrote:

fire extinguishers may not be such a bad idea, but at least for the love of god make them only usable by squad leaders...

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