Commando Archive
Thread: Crazy Idea that I need Input on...
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Towim
Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:53 pm
#27
interesting idea garvin.
I don't think I like it for commando though.
each profession should have a purpose (some others in this thread have already highlighted the problem wtih melee's taking anddoing large ammounts of damage)
you have:
fencer - low damage /high damage avoidance
heavy sword - high damage/low defense
pike - high area damage and effects/ low defense
tka - this one is hard to define, they can hit any HAM, get lots of effects, no real damage avoidance but with the high toughness can take the damage.
with ranged you have:
pistol - same as fencer
carbine - much like pike
rifle - some what like heavy sword
then you have the hybrids with are notoriously hard to balance and fit into a mold
obviously with things like special spamming and pretty much anyone tanking due to "uber" buffs and armor the balance and need to good group play is greatly diminished.
on top of all of that you can be multiple professions without very few drawback, mostly limited to certain skills only working with certain weapons equipped.
Most people would agree that rifleman fits into the blaster/wizard mold of highest damage (generally this is single target damage) lowest defense.
being as commando commando is a hybrid but master marksman and only unarmed 4 we should be more ranged damage less tank.
I see no reason we should be as weak on defense as a rifleman nor ever as strong defensively as a melee. And to make us the top damage dealer on a single target with ranged weapons steps on rifleman's toes.
the one place we could fit in is with area of effect ranged damage and the versatility of damage types. taking into account that we are hybrids I think garvin is sort of on the right track with the tanker on the ranged profession ideas maybe the proposed idea of a commando toughness where we don't avoid the damage like a pistoleer but we can just take one hell of a beating and keep going (somewhat like TKA's can) would fit in.
All of this would need to be balanced to where we'd never take the place of a brawler prof and not be the king of single target damage like a rifleman. The way I see it in a well organized group as long as your not spending all night fighting single targets one at a time the commando should most always come out at the end of the night as the top damage dealer. At the same time the commando would be limited in that by himself he'd never do as some templates do soloing enraged dune kimo's and the ackley etc.
just my take on everything.
Towim Hode - In flux
Cardon Bixby - M Commando/M Smuggler
Numen
Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:04 am
#28
I agree with a few of the above posts in that commando should be the fire power behind the tanks. If your using things like flamethrowers and rocket launchers I think this is only natural. People aren't very agile with a flamethrower. 
Medic I think is what throws a lot of the good teamwork play off. Anyone can pick up novice medic. Any combat profession can tank, its just a matter of how long you can tank. Melee should be able to tank more than ranged, ranged should be able to do more power though. Add medic in there and ranged can tank and heal and deal out massive amounts of dmg.
Daker-Naritus
Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:48 am
#29
Personally, I think I would rather have the opposite....
Higher damage and lesser defenses.
One thing I have always got mad at TH for is the insistance that commandos are "overpowered." In some ways, I see a hint of that with the "tanker" class, in that the class has low firepower to "balance" the high defenses.
My thought has always been that we spend twice as many skill points as other elite classes (now tied for first with BH), and we EARN our power, thereby eliminating some of the justification for "balance." If people want firepower equal to us, they should spend an equal number of skill points to have it (one of the goals I want to see met in the combat rebalance).
If something like this were implemented, I think is would have to be more like high defenses and medium firepower.
New ideas are always good...but I don't know if this one is right for us.
RazerWolf
Thu Aug 26, 2004 3:06 am
#30
Actually, with the exception of HeadShot3, all the most powerful Rifleman specials are area of effect. FlushingShot2, StartleShot2, StrafeShot2 are all AOE. Rifleman's strongest random pool single target attack is FlurryShot1, with a 2.5x damage modifier.
Vagrantprodigy
Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:10 am
#31
I'd prefer low defense/high offense. Otherwise we'd just get picked up for our defenses, and everyone would use some other type of weapon.
RankorCity
Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:56 am
#32
Swordsmen have this little ability called counterattack....Its works on par with dodge in its effectiveness...
SinjenRandall wrote:
It is interesting that you should say that. Swordsmen by themselves are low defense, high offense. Every weapon they have is Medium AP. I was a Swordsman for a very long time. However, dabbling in other professions gives them a pretty formidable defense as well. Center of Being is a good equalizer, too. What do we get? 2.5x to hit modifier when we have a heavy weapon equipped, and it takes forever to unequip it.
The fact is that most of the enemies in the game fight as Melee, and that means that all of the drawbacks of being ranged hit us, while they do not affect swordsmen.
If I were in this purely for the numbers, I would be insane to choose my current template over my former template, and I would actually extensively dabble to get the best of all worlds.
If we are going to be compared to Swordsmen, they also have to take into account that Swordsmen can pick up a lot more value and variety with the skillpoints they have. We need to get a considerable boost in damage output just to be on par with Swordsmen, and then we need a considerable boost in defense, just to be on par with Swordsmen.
But anyway, I am rambling. Looking forward to what happens next.
Ravenspite
Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:27 am
#33
garvin wrote:
OK...has anyone here ever played City of Heroes (CoH)?
This weekend I had a friend demonstrate the game for me (I'm always looking for ideas for us via other games out there)...
While playing that game I was introduced to a certain ArchType called "Tanker"
Tanker: low damage output but high defenses. A tanker can go head on head with a mob many levels higher than them. On the other hand, it'll take a long, long time to finish that mob off. Tankers also have taunt abilities to get the enemies to attack them, rather than one of the squishies.
I tried out this Character Type...I was able to take on most high level NPCs taking little damage, but also not being able to damage at very high levels...but when grouped with Blaster (think Rifleman) I was able to act as a shield for the very low defense/very high offensepartner and we were able to take on just about anything together...
Garvin, I'd tell you to get your buddy to showcase CoH for you again, but this time get him to show you what Blasters are like.
For the few brief months that I played CoH I always thought that there were a lot of similarities between my SWG Commando (or at least my ideal of what my commando should be) and my CoH Blaster..... Very high damage output, all the pretty graphical effects, but get in close and we're mincemeat...
Just a suggestion 
Druce Bayne
bcman2k1
Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:10 pm
#34
This seems like a good idea to me the 1 problem with it is that everyone in this game now wants to solo and want the commando adjustments made in that vein, higher melee defense, armor piercing, more damage. if commandos had all that they could solo effctively for sure.
StarNick
Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:17 am
#35
Slainte' Wrote:
Here's a tidbit...
Master Marksman should get a "new" skill mod which carries through to us and BH. Commando shoud get "new" exclusive skill mod (Maybe only Master) which adds +1 AP to any weapon...
I HATE this term..but think out of the box...LOL!
I think there is a VERY Viable way for a Commando to use his dusty old Master Marksman weapons(Which we use togrind Combat EXP) more effectively and almost in compairison as our Elite counterparts....think about it!
This is similiar to my old idea of putting foundation commando mods in Master Marksman (like how the +60 or so pistol accuracy from Master Marksman helps out a novice pistoleer...) Its not a +1 AP to any weapon....but its an idea of putting some starter commando skills in Master Marksman (or primarily...Hvy Weapon Skills) as only 2 classes even need Master Marksman, and both use Hvy Weapons...
Also a new skill mod of +1 AP to any weapon prolly is impossible to code in 
Heres the link to my old idea:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=commando&message.id=56438&highlight=add+commando+skills+in+master+marksman%21#M56438
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