Commando Archive

Thread: Crazy Thought About the HAR...

Tal-N
Sat Feb 14, 2004 5:34 pm
#27

If I expand a bit on the option between dropping all resists by 50% or simply removing a layer of armor the question has to be asked, which is more powerful. Because as we know the resists are applied after the armor layers are removing their 50% chunks from the base damage. Lets assume that something hits the target for 1000 points of damage and it has heavy armor and 80% resist to that damage type...


1000/2 = 500 (this is the first lightlayer), then 500/2 (medium layer), then 250/2 (heavy layer).. 125 - 80% = 25 points of damage


So this is what the damage would normally be, now lets see what it would be if the 80% resisthas 50% ripped from itby this theoretical HAR.


1000/2 = 500 (this is the first lightlayer), then 500/2 (medium layer), then 250/2 (heavy layer).. 125 - 30% = 87.5 points of damage


and now less see what the results are if an armor layer is removed instead....


1000/0 =1000 (this layer is removed), then 1000/2 (medium layer), then 500/2 (heavy layer).. 250 - 80% = 50 points of damage


So as you can see here lowering the resists will give a greater bonus in the long run than simply stripping away a layer of armor..... however there is a catch. While removing a layer of armor is less effective for higher end mobs than removing a chunk of thier resists the bonus for turning a lightly armored mob into one that isn't armored at all is quite significant.


1000/2 = 500 (light armor layer)... 500 - 80% = 100 points of damage

1000/0 = 1000 (armor layer removed).... 1000 - 80% = 200 points of damage


So you have a choice if you folks are going to push forwards with this, decay an armor layer and poentially double the damage caused if your weapon is equal to what the current state of the armor is. Since alot of weapons are AP2 that means removing a layer of armor from something which has theHeavy type is doubling your damage since the heavy will effectively change to medium which is the same as your weapon. In the case of medium being changed to light due to the HAR you'd actually gain an additional 25% bonus to the damage. However this is all relative, I think the devs might agree to a partial decay of resists but certainly not to the possibility of removing them all.






Tal-N Chratk
Ahazi Master Bioengineer / Hunt Master / Rifleman
______________________
Tal'N Chratk
Shadowfire Bounterhunter / Commando

Tal-N
Sat Feb 14, 2004 5:52 pm
#28





Actually it wouldn't be all that hard to program if you examine what is already ingame...If foods can improve resists (there are new food items that improve fire resists and such) on a timer, then there can be weapons that reduce resists on a timer...it's all about shifting the programming around to be implemented in a different way...it's all already in game...


But as you know the game only applies a fixed decrease, not one which incrementally increases. The Ranger's traps like glow-wire add a fixed increase to ranged attacks effectively lowering the resists for the mob. The currently isn't anything in the game which slowly increases nor decreases resists or protection. Its possible they only set it up to deal with absolutes, not that it can't be changed it'll just take more time and that is something they simply do not have in abundence.




As for stepping on toes...I disagree...there are many specials across many professions that could be considered "steping on toes"...The dev's have said they are all about creating balance...there are many creatures out there with resistence to our main weapon...and there are armor and clothing items that resist as well...now there are food items that grant temporary boosts to these resists...So if there are so many ways to resist the damage of our attacks, then to balance it, there should be away for us to lower those resists...




They want counter balance yes, but not to the point where a counter is countered and that counter-counter is countered. We throw fire, they resists or extinguish it. We don't then have a counter to their extinguisher. The same goes with any of the damage in the game, someone takes damage then it is healed but there is no counter to stop someone from healing themselves. There is only every the attack and then the defence.. nothing beyond that. Otherwise what you end up with a never ending battle of counters.





more then any other profession we deserve this type of thing...I don't see it as intruding...I see it as creating some type of balance (even though the scale would still tip in their favor)...Do Rangers or Comat Medics do heat damage? No, we do...and it's our main weapon, so we should have another way to lower the resists to use our main weapon better...It just makes sense...




We don't deserve any kind of special treatment because the profession is still broken, negligence isn't an excuse for an overpowering of the profession. As i have pointed out the devs are about providing defences to an attack, not about giving ways to then break down that defence afterwards. On the issue of them doing heat damage that is besides the point, we have the HAR which causes acid damage and a grenade for almost every other damage type in the entire game. That is our alternative, if something is heat resistant then we use the HAR, if they are heat and acid resistant then we use a normal gun from the marksman profession and a cryboban grenade or something. The ONLY reason why the Flamethrower is our 'main weapon' is because nothing else works. Oncethey do get repairedthe issue of heat protection isn't an problem at all.





A commando is not just for support and to cause damage...they are also the first line of attack that is charged with breaking down the defenses of their enemy so the rest of the soldiers can move in (that's one way we support our fellow troops)...by lowering defense resists we are doing just that...breaking down defenses and making our opponents more vunerable to attack...So we need an attack that temporarily reduces resists...




First line of attack is many things but not us. The rifleman fills the role of softening up defences as a first strike, their conceal shot works amazingly well in PvE. For PvP where they can see who is attacking them it's the melee professions who are the first line of attack. They are the ones with tanking ability, the commando isn't. If we were then you'd see heavy weapons toughness, massive melee and ranged defences and the ability to susstain alot of damage. As any commando knows when we go into the firing line at the front we get minced. The combat medic is the one designed for slowly wearing down the enemy, DOTs are the primary support weapon and their grenades effect groups. In PvE vs animals the Ranger also plays a key part in rooting and debuffing the mobs allowing everyone else to deal damage.


If you want proof that the commando is best when not being directly attacked but as a support role for those who ARE under attack just look at how potent the CH/Commado combination is. When the commando is under direct fire they don't last long, soon as they are allowed to get into a support role even under the current system they become one of the most powerful forces in the game. Why do you think all of our weapons have such terrible accuracy? It's cause we're supposed to sit our asses down, take aim and fire. Not run in with a battle cry watching that accuracy indicatior hitting -50. The same with the long delays on our specials, we belong either in the second row where that long delay doesn't matter or right at the back with the rifleman causing long range damage.


I don't totally disagree that a debuff would be handy as an addition to the commando's abilties, but it shouldn't be something that a whole tree is dedicated too.



Message Edited by Tal-N on 02-15-2004 12:56 AM



Tal-N Chratk
Ahazi Master Bioengineer / Hunt Master / Rifleman
______________________
Tal'N Chratk
Shadowfire Bounterhunter / Commando

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