Commando Archive
Thread: Dont mean to pick on dablers but really, I think the flame skill mods should be spread out.
I need the dabblers who fund all my app point experience 
but I have seen more and more guys go Master commando but I would assume that would be for Holos 
Flame tree should stay the way it is. DoTs are something that should ge bumped up the tree and maybe even move to Master which I would not object to. Dabblers then would still get good dmg but no the real incredible dmg over time. HAR needs to be fixed so our acc and spd stack properly just doing that would make me switch to HAR after my first cone to do straight up dmg so ican loot those extra corpses which need to be hit or you can't loot them (nice one SOE) Grenades need to be tweaked and same with the Hvy Weapons, which I have not touched a t all except for the rocket launcher, I guess you would get the same results with the others when using them against big mobs but only until recently are there mobs which might suffer using the Hvy weapons.
So overall don't talk about getting the flame tree getting spread over the entire profession but get our other trees and weapons looked at and fixed so we can be theproffession we are meant to be.
MadcowwithSARS wrote:
ok your being about as hypocritical as they come,you are wanting to ruin your class for dabblers,but yet you admit to dabbling in two other proffessions in an attemp to min max your character.*points to his ranks in TKA and Rifleman.*convenently place to give you the best melee def.get off your high horse,you want all those melee def. you picked up in your other two skills to be moved to master only?no i dont think so,this game isnt meant for masters only.
I have to defend Tac on this. He is only making up for weaknesses in his main profession, Master commando, not taking them just to use the one killer weapon that people think are all powerfull by just taking one line that has all the rifle specials, speed, and accuracy mods. No, he is using just the defense of TKA to counter our lousy defense, then hes using some rifle to get some ranged offense going, The fact is that he wil not be as powerfull or even near as powerful as a master TK. As far as rifle, I think he said soemthing about having several skill points in it, so he wil get a fair share of ability as he has invested a fair share of skill points.
The diference here is that those defenses arent conveniently bundled in a single pachage for Tac like the FT is, and each line he takes, say the one for ranged defense in rifle to give you 40 more, is not as lethal as taking Flame 4.
OK Tac, i have to say that its been nice having an intelligent and adult debate wth you about this without going at each others throats but I just got off work and had school befor that so I've been going since 2 PM yesterday to about 8 AM today and am beat. We will just have to understand, as I think we both do but others may not, that this willl only ever be philisophical since no matter what suggestions we may make, the DEVs will just nerf the FT for the entire profession. I am not crying for a nerf, nor do I fel you are, but rather trying to get an alternative going to present to the DEVs if the time ever came to at least salvage as much as we can of the FT. I hope the dablers understand I'm not anti-dabler at all. I was just trying to offer a way to where if they really want it, they can have the FT the way it is just not have all teh major abilities masters get rather than see us all go down. Then Our only option would be to take master pistoleer and use our last half-assed working weapon the LP then you only need novice commando and youd be just as powerful as a master. heh
Just get it over with. All dabbler should put in the Emperor Palpatine's concentration camps.
Lol.
my dabbling in TKA cost me 2 trees worth of skillpoints to get abilities and defense, nothing that gives me more offensive power, and definetely nothing that lets me challenge a master tka in unarmed fighting. keep that in mind. rifleman i have 2 trees in box4and 1 tree in box3, thats a massive investment in points in that proffession. and im neither a TKA in fighting ability nor am I a rifleman in fighting ability. im a tka as far as meditation and defenses and rifleman as far as weapon speed and some of their lower end attacks. A master tka will beat me in unarmed easy, a master rifleman will cream me in a rifle duel with little effort.
on the other hand, grenadeer4 has the same firepower as a master. with just 1 tree spent. and remember that tree gets the bulk of the accuracy and speed mods a master gets. a master commando facing a grenadeer 4 is, again, a 50 50 chance. there's one issue.
2nd issue is the prevalence of grenadeer -only dabblers running around in the game wielding the same firepower ability as a master commando and on top of that mastering other proffessions which give them much higher combat and defensive ability than a master commando will ever have. Take for example the creature handlers. Before patch and even after patch, the flamethrower is still the best investment in skillpoints they can make.. their pets deal damage, the flamethrower deals damage plus dot and its got an aoe dot as well. With just grenadeer 4 that player is master CH and master commando for all practical purposes. with points to spare.
without the dot the flamethrower is just a heat damage, more accurate version of the LLC. and thats what grenadeer tree should provide. master should provide the dot ability. no nerf to the proffession happens, the playerbase benefits as high firepower is limited to those that spend the points for it, and it provides a true incentive to master a proffession.
I agree the commando tree is hugely unbalanced, I'm not sure that moving the flame dot to master is the best solution.The problem with master commando is it requires you to spend skill points on lines which are either totally useless, or of questionable use.
Instead of nerfing the flame line, the other lines should be improved, and the flame dot should take into account the heat resists of the target.
SOE are going to be changing weapons so you'll see master level weapons and novice level weapons, hopefully that coupled with improvements to the other skill lines will make master commando better value.
tacwraith wrote:
my dabbling in TKA cost me 2 trees worth of skillpoints to get abilities and defense, nothing that gives me more offensive power, and definetely nothing that lets me challenge a master tka in unarmed fighting. keep that in mind. rifleman i have 2 trees in box4and 1 tree in box3, thats a massive investment in points in that proffession. and im neither a TKA in fighting ability nor am I a rifleman in fighting ability. im a tka as far as meditation and defenses and rifleman as far as weapon speed and some of their lower end attacks. A master tka will beat me in unarmed easy, a master rifleman will cream me in a rifle duel with little effort.
on the other hand, grenadeer4 has the same firepower as a master. with just 1 tree spent. and remember that tree gets the bulk of the accuracy and speed mods a master gets. a master commando facing a grenadeer 4 is, again, a 50 50 chance. there's one issue.
2nd issue is the prevalence of grenadeer -only dabblers running around in the game wielding the same firepower ability as a master commando and on top of that mastering other proffessions which give them much higher combat and defensive ability than a master commando will ever have. Take for example the creature handlers. Before patch and even after patch, the flamethrower is still the best investment in skillpoints they can make.. their pets deal damage, the flamethrower deals damage plus dot and its got an aoe dot as well. With just grenadeer 4 that player is master CH and master commando for all practical purposes. with points to spare.
without the dot the flamethrower is just a heat damage, more accurate version of the LLC. and thats what grenadeer tree should provide. master should provide the dot ability. no nerf to the proffession happens, the playerbase benefits as high firepower is limited to those that spend the points for it, and it provides a true incentive to master a proffession.
well would you like knockdown moved from balance 1 to master?or powerboost moved from meditate 3 to master?all im saying is if you want the powerfull skills of your proffession moved to master.do the same with every proffession.move BH eye shot to master,move powerboost and knockdown to master TK.hell make all the proffessions have masters get all the moves and dabblers just get modifiers.see how rediculous it can get.it goes on and on.this gaming system has alot of problems ill give you that.but like other people were saying,if the other weapons in the commando line were working.the flame thrower wouldnt be an issue.
BTW im sorry for calling you hypocrtical i should keep this a debate on issues not other things.
madcow, read my post again. with my tka dabbling i cannot go toe to toe with a master tka in a fistfight. PERIOD.
with my rifleman skillls i cannot go toe to toe with a master rifleman in a rifle fight. PERIOD.
with grenadeer4 you CAN go toe to toe with a master commando. PERIOD.
Do i need to go on?
i think that is more to do with the other weapons in the commando line being so screwed up.in theory a thermal detonator should end the fight in one lob.but it doesnt.fix that once and the acid rifle and see if you need to make these changes.the only reason a grenadeer can stand toe to toe is the other weapons suck.and its not the dabblers fault.
but my comparison to moving those other skills up to master is along the same lines,if somone goes up to flame 4 its because its the best thing in the class.if everything else in TKA was broken except powerboost,how many TKM would want powerboost moved to master?? just about all of them you can bet.
and i did read your post BTW
MadcowwithSARS wrote:
i think that is more to do with the other weapons in the commando line being so screwed up.in theory a thermal detonator should end the fight in one lob.but it doesnt.fix that once and the acid rifle and see if you need to make these changes.the only reason a grenadeer can stand toe to toe is the other weapons suck.and its not the dabblers fault.
but my comparison to moving those other skills up to master is along the same lines,if somone goes up to flame 4 its because its the best thing in the class.if everything else in TKA was broken except powerboost,how many TKM would want powerboost moved to master?? just about all of them you can bet.
and i did read your post BTW
MadCow thats the thing. They are not going to let us throw a proton grenade and have it end a fight in one blast, that would make us more powerful at master and they are not going to do that without nerfing the crapout of the FT. The best we are going to be able to hope for is that tey just make our other weapons work better as is in a more situational aproach. For example, reduce the HAM cost of HWs and grenades so then we might use HWs at range, and fix our throwing range and blast radius of both.
With all the yelling about the FT, they will not up the damage of the HWs enough to take out AT-STs. It seems to me that thy nerfed AT-STs befor cause people were using them in PvE and that was unintended, so now they are only used in PvP and they have no intention of you blowing up an AT-ST without spendig a lot of time chewing it down. They dont want us anymore powerful, we are lucky we are where we are with all the yelling.
Its like I said in my original post, at master, I feel I am at the right power where I should be but I just feel it is done the wrong way. Meaning it is all in the flame tree. Now, that doesnt mean I feel they should nerf the FT. No, I mean that the master commando should be the ones withmost damage capability from it and the other weapons should work, but not be near as powerful but have range and AOE along with the diferent types of damage they have.
When you compare Tacs dabling, and I am really spread out after master commando myself, if you dont think it any diferent, how many people do you see that picks up brawler, go to unarmed 4, then TKA, just to get meditate? A hanful might but not near as many as are not already at the pre-reqs go all the way through master marksman then unarmed 4 just to get to flame 4. If just having flame 4 isnt as powerful as being a master then tell me why the hell are you there when you could have spent those points to master any straight line elite profession. And tell me why people dont just go for Trickshot in pistoleer. The answer is that with just that line you are useless and no where near masters capability.
I know, I would be concerned about someone wanting to take my specials that I dabled to get, even though mine are kinda secondary and not my main reason to dable, but the way Tac is saying he is trying to let you stil get the front end damage just not the DOT, not take it away from you. The way I was, fine keep em, but if you dont incest a few more points your not going to hit the broad side of a barn and your going to be damned slow.
Now tell me, would you prefer one of those 2, or the whiners gettting their way and the FT itself just getting nerfed?
TechnoHic wrote:
MadcowwithSARS wrote:
i think that is more to do with the other weapons in the commando line being so screwed up.in theory a thermal detonator should end the fight in one lob.but it doesnt.fix that once and the acid rifle and see if you need to make these changes.the only reason a grenadeer can stand toe to toe is the other weapons suck.and its not the dabblers fault.
but my comparison to moving those other skills up to master is along the same lines,if somone goes up to flame 4 its because its the best thing in the class.if everything else in TKA was broken except powerboost,how many TKM would want powerboost moved to master?? just about all of them you can bet.
and i did read your post BTW
MadCow thats the thing. They are not going to let us throw a proton grenade and have it end a fight in one blast, that would make us more powerful at master and they are not going to do that without nerfing the crapout of the FT. The best we are going to be able to hope for is that tey just make our other weapons work better as is in a more situational aproach. For example, reduce the HAM cost of HWs and grenades so then we might use HWs at range, and fix our throwing range and blast radius of both.
With all the yelling about the FT, they will not up the damage of the HWs enough to take out AT-STs. It seems to me that thy nerfed AT-STs befor cause people were using them in PvE and that was unintended, so now they are only used in PvP and they have no intention of you blowing up an AT-ST without spendig a lot of time chewing it down. They dont want us anymore powerful, we are lucky we are where we are with all the yelling.
Its like I said in my original post, at master, I feel I am at the right power where I should be but I just feel it is done the wrong way. Meaning it is all in the flame tree. Now, that doesnt mean I feel they should nerf the FT. No, I mean that the master commando should be the ones withmost damage capability from it and the other weapons should work, but not be near as powerful but have range and AOE along with the diferent types of damage they have.
When you compare Tacs dabling, and I am really spread out after master commando myself, if you dont think it any diferent, how many people do you see that picks up brawler, go to unarmed 4, then TKA, just to get meditate? A hanful might but not near as many as are not already at the pre-reqs go all the way through master marksman then unarmed 4 just to get to flame 4. If just having flame 4 isnt as powerful as being a master then tell me why the hell are you there when you could have spent those points to master any straight line elite profession. And tell me why people dont just go for Trickshot in pistoleer. The answer is that with just that line you are useless and no where near masters capability.
I know, I would be concerned about someone wanting to take my specials that I dabled to get, even though mine are kinda secondary and not my main reason to dable, but the way Tac is saying he is trying to let you stil get the front end damage just not the DOT, not take it away from you. The way I was, fine keep em, but if you dont incest a few more points your not going to hit the broad side of a barn and your going to be damned slow.
Now tell me, would you prefer one of those 2, or the whiners gettting their way and the FT itself just getting nerfed?
i agree it would be bad,the same thing happend to CH,the masters didnt want people dabbling to have the same power or close to it as a master.i can agree with that its not fair.but instead of totally moving the DOT to master how about moving the DOT that causes wounds to master?like move flame single 2 to master or make it flame single 3.and just boost the damage of flame single 2.but leave the DOTs.cause lets face it,beyond the DOTs its the wounds stacking up that start to matter.unless your a TKA with good meditate skills or in a group with a doctor your not going to be a factor in a fight for too much longer.i just think they should strive for something in the middle ground rather then totally shifting the spectrum around.maybe add a shot called napalm or something.maybe even like some have mentioned,increase the range of the specials for masters.i think its 17m on specials move it out to 24m maybe like they do for master brawlers with lunge.
i have always been and advocate of fixing other proffessions rather then reducing ones effectivness(nerfing)because it seems powerfull.
over all i think this has been a pretty constructive debate.i just hope it doesnt turn out like the CH.
I mastered commando (and had to drop it so i could finish another holo).... I love the profession and want to get back to it when I get the chance.... however:
I really really wish they would have put some sort of speed modifier in master... I rarely missed anyway, so accuracy +40 only helps in PvP when the heavy swordsman I fight has +140 dodge. SPEED in master please.