Commando Archive
Thread: HAR broken? I think it's the flamer that is bugged really
I don't believe ANY DoTs (bleeds, burns, poisons) are affected by resistances. I see no logical reason to single the Flamethrower out. If you have 50% resistance to Energyand 0% resistance to Acid and someone shoots you with an energy weapon, you would bleed less because it's going to create a smaller wound than an acid weapon would.
While that would be a partial solution there is a slight flaw behind the idea of damage = the sevraity of the wound. The fact is that if you took any modern gun you have alot of ways to actually cause the minimal amount of inpact damage to the target but actually cause a nasty open wound. That is effectively what a 'bleedshot' is, it's a blaster bolt aimed in such a place as to cause bleeding not injury.
In the end I can agree that bleeding is very much an abused tactic and should be effected by resistances, however it's a sticky issue as I said since it is possible to pass it off as a carefully aimed shot, even with resistances unless it's 100% your looking at a wound being able to bleed alot depending on where it was caused. But yes I can agree that all bleeding should be tied directly into the type of damage that initially caused it, but in this case it's a situation where the Flamethrower is looking like it's benefitingtoo muchfrom this oversight. Indeed flames catching something alight is a very simple situation compared to blaster bolts causing open wounds, it's very fair to look at heat resistance and say that a certan enemy shouldn't burn as well as another.
the wound damage on DoT isnt all that severe
compare it to the overall wound dmg to the weapon, generally around 18%...DoT makes up for that low percentage in regular fire mode
ive seen many other weapons..such as the scatter pistol with 32% wound percent..and in heated battle that adds up
but all one really has to do is just stay out of melee range with the FT..doesn't ANYONE understand that? when we carry the FT we are SLOW, it is EASY to outrun us for crying outloud..shesh some people
The Death Star explosion wouldn't have made a circular shockeave as it did in the remastered versions either, it would have been spherical. Sorry, I've got nothing to add to the thread, it's just that whenever I seethe filmsit annoys the **edit** off of me. 
Forgive my contempt but have you been off a starting planet? Quite a few NPCs and creatures have acid resistances. Go to datooine. There are plenty of acid resist creatures there.
I told you that I'd come back with some facts to prove that acid vulnerability is very common, infact I refined this short list further so that it only includesmobs which have a heat resistance but a weakness to acid. For the sake of being fair I've also included enemies which are resistant to acid more than heat to show that acid damage does actually have a huge advantage. I've broken these into the 3 planets I went to:
Endor
- boarwolf species
- swirl prong species
- blurrg (except diseased)
- ewoks
- jax
- Roaming desert borgle
and those which had heat weaknesses...
- Borgle Life Sapper
- Bolle bol stomper
And in many cases when something was resistant to acid it was equally or more resistant to heat as well.
- Bloodseeker mite hunter : 100% heat/acid/lightning
- Arachne Warrior : 60% heat/acid
.. alot the arachne species have a resistance to both. This was just a sampling of species I came across within 15 mins. Moving on now...
Yavin4
Considering how very few types of enemies there is on Yavin this is a shortlist, most mobs have no resistances there. Those which had a heat defence but weak to acid were from what I encoutered:
- Giant Gackle bat
- Kliknik defencer
- Kiknik queen
- Hutt expeditionary forces
- Tanc Mite warrior
..and how many were heat vulnerable but acid resistant?
- Giant Mawgax :20% acid/ vulnerable to heat
.. moving onto the next planet...
Dathomir
Vulnerable to acid but not heat...
- Gaping spider :15% heat / vulnerable to acid
- Brackaset male/female : 30% heat / vulnerable to acid
- Shear mite solider
- Mature reptilian flier :50% heat / vulnerable to acid
- Rhoa KWi pack leader :50% heat / 40% acid
- Rhoa Kwi guardian :80% heat / 15% acid
- RhoaKwi : 100% heat / vulnerable to acid
and vice versa...
- Gaping spider hunter : 40% acid / 15% heat
...and all of this was just 30 mins spent visiting 3 planets for 10 mins and running around seeing what I came across. I'll also pull up some facts from other species I've come across over the months which are of special note. These are species which gives you an idea of just how common acid vulnerability is compared to heat.
- Dune Kimogila : 100% heat / 40% acid
- Giant Dune Kimogila : 100% heat / 50% acid
- Gurk Gatherer : 40% acid / 10% heat
- Roba species : 60% heat / Vulnerable to acid
- Picket plains walker : 25% heat / vulnerable to acid
- Bolle Bol Bark biter : 50% acid / 15% heat
- Reemer Dune Scavenger : 85% heat / 30% acid
- Desert Scavenger : 75% heat / 30% acid
- Elder Hanadak Matriarch : 80% heat / vulnerable to acid
- Noxious Squill : 35% acid / vulnerable to heat
- Enraged Rancor : 100% heat / 30% acid
- Horned Voriter Lizard : 100% acid / 10% heat
- Seething Bol Crusher : 40% acid / vulnerable to heat
- Slinking Voritier Hunter : 45% heat / vulnerable to acid
- Huurton Huntress : 40% heat / vulnerable to acid
- Graul Mauler : 90% heat / vulnerable to acid
- Huurton Howler : 40% heat / vulnerable to acid
..and well, thats just the ones which I happen to have in my database for species. And incomplete database and these are just the ones that stood out. Filtering through them heat vulnerability over acid vulnerability is very uncommon. Acid vulnerability in general is widespread, I'd say a good 70% of enemies are vulnerable to acid and 50% have acid weaknesses but heat protection. Dantooine does indeed have alot of acid resistant critters, but they're also heat resistant on the whole as well. Looking at the galaxy as a whole heat resistance is very very common, hence there is no need for the HAR to have any AP qualities.
oh boy we are debating the realism of a video game based off a sifi movie.
Actually we're debating the realism of a game set in a fictional world, even fiction has to make sense and from a game design point of view looking at realism is the best way to make sure something is balanced. All logic begins with looking at the real world remember.
1) Heat resitant creatures should not be protected against Flame DOTs because this is a "Game" and the "Real Life"rules do not apply here.
2) No other DOTs are affected by the resitance of the weapon that fired it. Example: I Bleed a Rancor with a weapon it is 100% resitant to it still bleeds... Why is this you ask? BECAUSE this is a game and a "Bleed shot" is a special move!
3) Commandos are supposed to be hard hitting and ANTI-ARMOR! This means Commandos are the best at taking out AT-STs and the AT-AT, tanks and other kindshard targets. The best way to do this is to make powerful DOTs that "IGNORE ARMOR!" kind of like the one the Flame Thrower has...
I think the HAR should be comperable to the LLC because as it stands now the HAR is a very poor weapon.
Commandos are not all that great in PvP but we are good at PvE, and we are supposed to be. I think making us weaker against the IMPs AT-ST petsis the driving force behindthe movementto nerf the flame DOT, because it isn't all that great otherwise. my fired the "Rifle man" can do 3000+ damage every couple seconds to a "mind" bar, thats more power than a flame DOT as long as he stays alive.
Well it's clear that people aren't satified that they already have access to 3 seperate types of bleed shots as it is, so some think they need a 4th one which causes a massive bleed as well. In this situation it's clear that logic isn't going to win on the debate of should the flamer be able to burn a 100% heat resistant enemy. In cases like this it's a simple matter of needing to agree to disagree. I frankly think that it's a poor design choice and is the root of why the flamer is dominating the profession, it'd be easy to correct it but it looks like the ONLY option the devs will have is to increase the power of the other weapons to avoid a mass complaint from the players who don't want to lose their uber-weapon.
Thats gonna mean any fixes they do make will take a long time to come around, the inability to accept that the flamer DOT is overpowered is going to cause any changes to the commando balance to take so much longer rather than quickly removing the DOT from bypassing resistances which would solve alot of issues.
Oh well, I hope people don't complain it's gonnatake a long time....
How would the HAR fare in PvP? Like **edit**.
Even in PvE it doesn't do all that well, especially when compared to the FT, or even the expendables.
The flamethrower is the only viable weapon we have, don't bring it down to the level of our arguably worst weapon. Bring the HAR up to the level of the flamethrower.
It IS a **edit**ty gun, and it needs a buff. Don't make the HAR look better by nerfing the FT.
The biggest liability of the HAR is the accruacy ATM IMO. I do actually use mine quite frequently in groups (mob type depending)... missing, even when kneeling is making me a bit nutty.
All bleeds are currently way overpowered... I would not be surprised if they were reworked to take into acct. resistances, or any other reasonable change to lower their overwhelming power (not just FT Dots, all of them)... not that any devs has said so to my knowledge.. they are indeed messing up combat pretty seriously IMO, and allowing people to solo stuff way above their levels... everything with any bleed on it is overpowered.
I'd like the HAR graphics changed a bit too. but hey... I'd like to be able to see the attachments to other people's weapons too. It isn't as busted as people like to think.
I wouldn't count on the FT staying the way it is (not that I have heard of any plan to change it). Mounts and cities are out now, so the devs can look more closely at combat... ther is a lot of broken stuff and a lot of overpowered stuff out there.
-T
helo did any one read my post i put facts in it that no one can denie fire will burn cook almost evry thing
here is a simple example if you have a pan of food sitting over a fire pit the pan will not burn peray(may charcoal a bit and maybe burn if the heat was incredible) but the food inside cooks or burns thus heat risistance has nothing to do with it napalm is beyond simple fire it burns several hrs aslong as it has oxygen it doesn't need fule thats why the flame thrower burns so nomatter what the material is it will make alot of heat and if nothing else the pilots of the atst would have to bail or burn come on ppl if you have of food and throw it in the fire the can might last for a long time but again the food cooks what is so hard about the obvious
the only thing i can think is that ppl who don't like this are imps who don't want there atst destroyed if this is so just don't use them in pvp duh i have heard mature imps say they didn't use their atst in pvp before the flame thrower got fixed you know why they wanted to be challenged and have fun not be stupid and let some pet do all there work for them in other words they thought it stupid and a sign of lack of strength strategy and fun.
like i sed tho if you must nerf the flamer it must be after we are fixed and it would have to be to the dam and not to the burn
o ya i did some checking up flame throwers in real life also ar full atomatic no delays 
the can spray none stop
so after were fixed the new flamer should look like this 1-100 dam speed 1.0 with a dot that would tick evry 3 secs for 2k
if you want any realizem or balenc at all
so ithere stop this foolishness
and at this time we are way under powerd!!!!!!!!!! a master pistoler out dames us by 3X a master tk by 4X master rifelmen 3X a master carb 3X a master sowrds men can solo a atst in 3-12 secs (useing a power hamer)
and i could master pistoler rifelner and part of carbener with the same amount of skill points it takes to get master commando
so that meens i should be 3X more powerfull then them not the other way around
why dose evry one keep crying nerf to a profesin that cant even pare with them
Tal-N. I agree with many of your posts here regarding commandos and respect your opinions. This is not a flame, nor am I tring to start a debate or argument. I simply want to state a fact, and it can be taken with a grain of salt. I KNOW this is a fantasy/sci-fi game and what exists in it does not mean it exists in our world. However there are striking resemblances. I am writing this in regards to some possible misconseptions of fire and its physical properties. Basically, nothing is 100% "fire proof". So when enough heat is applied to an object, it will burn. Everything has a flashpoint, a temprature thatitwill spontaneously combust. What I'm saying is, a creature with 100 to "resistant" to flame does not mean it is fire proof. FTs' emit asubstance ( Napalm in SWG? maybe, maybe not ) that adheres to its target and continues to burn cuasing damage, burns, pain and suffering up to and sometimes including death. A solution, maybe reduce the amount of DOTdamage to creatures with flame resistane...but no creature IMO is completly 100% FIRE PROOF.. well, except maybe Satan himself, but thats a whole different subject-
Cresslin
Master Commando
Leader of DFR
Just want to make two observations:
!. Resistance is not immunity. Resistance to fire is not immunity to fire. Resistance to acid is not immunity to acid.Resistance to Kinetic is not immunity to acid. Resistance to energy is not immunity to energy etc. I think this is the approach the devs are taking. 100% resistance could be defined as the material or creatureis as resistant to fire, etc. as anything can be. I don't think that they meant for things to be completely immune.
2.Commando weapons are most effective in melee range. With the delays in place on the HAR along with it's general BROKEN state (read : poor design, bad idea, whatever) the use of the weapon although desireable against targets with acid vulnerabilites is nearly suicidalto useby design. I think this may have something to do with most commando's to use it.
Tal-N said:
Fire cannot persist without a chemical reaction fueling it, so if something is resistant to heat/fire then it cannot catchablaze and therefore cannot burn. Ergo an enemies with 100% heat resistance shouldn't burn since there is no way for the chemical reaction to start from fire.
In this caseI suspect theaccelerant is the chemical or fuel of the flame thrower itself. Whatever that fuel is. Although the "armor" may resist burning I suspect the heat generated by repeated applications of the flamethrowers wrath would cause significat wounding of the creature or of the enemy within the armor.