Commando Archive
Thread: Is there any good reason why Commandos need the pistol/carbine marksman trees?
Page 3 of 3
neinnunb
Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:54 am
#27
RazaKuhn wrote:
They should have known that little tweaks here and there wouldn't have fixed the problem. But what I am trying to understand is why is sustaining balance for them is so difficult? The backbone of this game is all math. There are countless formulas here on the forums that show how to calculate DPS etc. So why are these formulas so out of whack? Carbineers are complaining that there specials are HAM hogs compared to other ranged professions. Has this been fixed?
Carbineers are still with the HAM problem. Its a must to use buffs to fight as a carbineer.
I think the fundamental problems are more than just math. The biggest of those problems is the HAM. Originally in beta you could heal all your bars including the mind. But after the doctor profession was introduced they realized if you were a doctor you could stay alive indefinately by healing yourself forever. So they took out the mind healing ability to counter the problem. But this created another problem: if you were a profession that can target the mind you were lucky, if you couldnt (like carbineers for example) you were out of luck. This change was put in so late in beta (which was already behind schedule) that they couldnt go back to the drawing board to fix it right. That and the inability to use the frogs in the original beta and the constant wipes made it impossible for beta testers to fully test the system.
Now I dont know how exactly the curb will remedy the mind targeting problem as Im not in curb alpha, but its one of the biggest balance problems I think currently. Everyone should be able to target all of the individual pools.. or at least make mind healing possible in some way without creating an indefinite healing ability by a doctor or medic.
DND_Cas
Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:59 am
#28
As long as each proffessions has strengths and weaknesses. However in a system that allows for mixed templates that is going to be difficult to accomplish.
It will only be a problem if they keep (defence) stacking.
garvin
Tue Jan 18, 2005 10:11 am
#29
Defense stacking is a simple thing to deal with in SWG and I'm surprised the Devs never got around to fixing it...All they need to do is "cap" it at a reasonable level just prior to "uberness"...in the CU I hope they take that idea one step farther the balance things further by making people choose power vs. defenses...in otherwords, you can dabble for higher defenses, but you risk lower power (or vice versa)...Problem currently in the game is that you can dabble for high power and defenses at the same time as each profession is considered it's own entity (should be able to stand alone)...if we move away from that idea and make templates dependent on dabbling to "complete" themselves, we move closer to removing the problems that come with defense stacking as well as achieve a more realistic balance of strengths vs. weaknesses.
DND_Cas wrote:
As long as each proffessions has strengths and weaknesses. However in a system that allows for mixed templates that is going to be difficult to accomplish.
It will only be a problem if they keep (defence) stacking.
Novock
Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:06 am
#30
garvin wrote:
Defense stacking is a simple thing to deal with in SWG and I'm surprised the Devs never got around to fixing it...All they need to do is "cap" it at a reasonable level just prior to "uberness"...in the CU I hope they take that idea one step farther the balance things further by making people choose power vs. defenses...in otherwords, you can dabble for higher defenses, but you risk lower power (or vice versa)...Problem currently in the game is that you can dabble for high power and defenses at the same time as each profession is considered it's own entity (should be able to stand alone)...if we move away from that idea and make templates dependent on dabbling to "complete" themselves, we move closer to removing the problems that come with defense stacking as well as achieve a more realistic balance of strengths vs. weaknesses.
DND_Cas wrote:
As long as each proffessions has strengths and weaknesses. However in a system that allows for mixed templates that is going to be difficult to accomplish.
It will only be a problem if they keep (defence) stacking.
1. Caps defintely help. My guess is they will move to an easier system based on 100.
2. Dabbling in power. We have that now with a cpl proffessions. The main one being pistoleer but carbineer as well. the idea of power stacking and defense stacking makes for some interesting thoughts. I'm curoius to see how this will blend.
My biggest fear still remains that they might get a nice rock paper scissor balance between the combat proffession but still give Jedi a sledge hammer to beat them all. But we have no idea and we wait... and wait... and wait... and wait....
SWG - Stop Wait and Grind
neinnunb
Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:15 pm
#31
My biggest fear still remains that they might get a nice rock paper scissor balance between the combat proffession but still give Jedi a sledge hammer to beat them all.
Thats my preoccupation too. If the Jedi have one or several big weaknesses then I'll be satisfied. Jedi can't be the exception to the balance rules (as most of them would tell you).
Thats my preoccupation too. If the Jedi have one or several big weaknesses then I'll be satisfied. Jedi can't be the exception to the balance rules (as most of them would tell you).
StarNick
Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:34 pm
#32
Heh...4 guys playing paper-rock-scissors shoot!:
Guy 1: Hey guys, lets play paper-rock-scissors!
Guy 2, 3, 4: Ok!
*All four do the fist and chant doohicky and pick their "weapon", each go in order and beat the last guy until someone wins*
Guy 1: Paper!
Guy 2: Scissors beats paper, you lose!
Guy 3: Rock! You loose Guy 2! What do you have Guy 4?
Guy 4: Sledgehammer.
*The 3 other guys are instantly knocked out, Guy 4 smiles wickedly from underneath his jedi hood*
RazaKuhn
Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:18 pm
#33
Garvin,
To me rock paper scissors is balance. However, you can have arguements on all fronts of what balance is.
Rock, Paper, Scissors, could be viewed as unbalanced because these are not equal. True balance would be if rock could beat paper.
True balance in game would be TKM vs. TKM with out any other skills then it is up to the person running the toon to figure a way to win. How could true balance be boring? Everyone in Unreal Tournament has the same weapons and the same armor, yet I never considered Unreal boring. That's balance within the game.
But the point I was trying to make was balance within other parts of the system, the Carbineers HAM costs, for instance, are these calculated based on the same stats as rifleman or pistoleer? If so then it seems to me that there is some math screwed up somewhere.
Again, killing a rancor and getting 3k xp is ridiculous when I can go kill a quenker and get the same. The only reason I can see behind this is because SOE knew people would exploit krayts so they figured this would be some kind of limitation. But if that were true then it would be nice to be told this, instead i think the game screwed up and blame the devs.
ONE POINT That you mentioned that I would love to see implemented is the use of teams again. I severely miss the days when it took 20 people to kill a rancor. Now it just takes a couple TK's to do it.
I also have a feeling that the blanket was introduced to counter our burns. But if that's true then I want my KD/Dizzy defense or my breather mask against mind poison.
Also, can anyone confirm that SOE is doing away with defense stacking? CU has got me worried that I am spending all my time working on a template that I think is cool only to be shot down in one patch.
Page 3 of 3