Commando Archive
Thread: COMMANDO'S WAY TOO POWERFULL
Did you have to master marksman for pistoleer? Did you have to get unarmed master for pistoleer? No, I'm confident that you didn't. The FT does massive damage but we can only use the special once ever 15 secs (9 secs if your a master). I have flamesingle1 and I've never hit for 5000 damage but just for sake of argument, lets assume that I do. 5000/15=333.333333 per second. As another pistoleer stated, with a good fwg5, he can get 1200 per hit. Again, for arguments sake, I'm going to assume that it's 1200 damage ever 2 secs (correct me if I'm wrong, please). 1200/2=600. Last time I checked, 333.3333 is less then 600. Of course, this is a one tier commando skill vs. a master pistoleer.
No, commando's don't need a nerf. We just do our damage in one hit, you do yours in a series of hits.
MalisZX read this before you even think about opening your mouth again....Ivoni posted this on the GCW forums and probably here too.
The commando has at its disposal 3 damage types for non-consumed attacks. Heat (ap0), acid (ap0), and blast (ap0).
NOTICE: None of them have armor piercing. By just wearing armor in PvP you reduce commando attacks by 50%. This isn't taking into account your armor added resistances. Assuming of course you make sure to get heat/acid/blast resists.
Admittedly, the commando has several consumed attacks from heavy weapons. Acid (ap2), Electricity (ap1), Energy (ap3), and Blast(ap3)
The commando has several grenade types as well. Heat (ap1), blast (ap1 & 2), acid (ap0), and cold (ap1).
To compare with other classes:
Pistoleer has Acid (ap1), heat, energy (ap1), kinetic, and stun.
Carbineer has acid (ap1), heat, energy (ap1 and ap2)
Rifleman has cold, stun (ap1), kinetic (ap1), energy (ap2 and ap3)
Bounty Hunter has acid (ap1), electricity (ap1), heat, cold, energy (ap1 and ap2), kinetic, and stun,
If you noticed the Bounty Hunter is far more versatile.
NOTICE: The flamethrower and Har are treated as a melee. This allows for incredible damage versus rifle holders.
NOTICE: The Dot component of the flamethrower disregards resistances and does full damage. Same goes with all dots.
SPECIFICS
Launcher pistol: Our bread and butter. Sadly we never get any better with it nor do we receive any unique specials. It is assumed to use pistol accuracy/speed skills and it uses all pistol specials. Unfortunately it only has AP0 but it does blast damage to which At-St’s and Turrets are being made vulnerable.
Flamethrower: This is a weapon to which an entire tree is dedicated to. As a Novice Commando be forewarned you will be incredibly inaccurate until Flame 3. This is due to the +10 accuracy/+0 speed you receive as a novice. You can honestly expect to miss 7 out of 10 times. It does Heat damage of course but sadly only AP0.
It has two specials (flamesingle & flamecone) which both get upgraded but can only be used 16m or closer. They do massive amounts of damage.
The downside is the massive delay. It is a 15 second delay when you get it speeding up to 9 seconds at mastery. By delay I mean you can't do anything but run. No healing, No counterattack.
The only difference between the two attacks is single target vs AOE.
NOTICE: The fire dot effect can be put out by getting in water.
Heavy Acid Rifle: The other weapon to which an entire tree is dedicated to. This has the same warning about accuracy as with Flamethrower. It does acid damage.
NOTICE: This is the only acid damage weapon in game that is AP0. ALL other acid weapons are AP1.
Its specials are a carbon copy of Flamethrower (acidsingle & acidcone) but it is missing the dot effect.
NOTICE: The speed skills you obtain in this tree are broken. You never fire this weapon any faster and the delays after using the specials are TWENTY SECONDS!!!
The following are the consumable weapons gained from the Heavy Weapons Support tree. They all have charges vary from 28 to 50 depending on what the weaponsmith did. Again, you must commit to the tree to not miss with these. They all hit incredibly hard and using them cues up like any other special.
Acid Stream Launcher : Consumable. Acid Damage. AP2
Lightning Beam Cannon: Consumable. Electricity damage. AP1
Heavy Particle Beam Cannon: Consumable. Energy damage. AP3
Rocket Launcher: Consumable. Consumable. Blast Damage. AP3.
NOTICE: These take a great deal of time to make. It takes THREE HOURS real time to make ONE Rocket Launcher. Average price is 20k for the first 3 and 60k for the rocket launcher. We are talking about 30 shots here. How much do you pay per shot with your pistol?
Grenades. These result from the Field Tactics Tree. They come in stacks of 5 and can be made in crates.
Fragmentation Grenade: Blast damage. AP1.
Cryoban Grenade: Cold Damage. AP1
Glop Grenade: Acid Damage. AP0
Imperial Detonator: Blast Damage. AP1
Thermal Detonator: Blast Damage. AP2
Proton Grenade: Heat Damage, Ap1
NOTICE: These take even more time to make but for one customer. Finding a weaponsmith to sell you these is dependant on one specializing in doing so. Or being a pal. 40k for 125 tosses.
I hope this was helpful. This can be an enjoyable class. If a target has no heat/acid/blast resist we have a use. Incredible use if heat and can get 16m or closer.
However our strengths are our weaknesses. With only three damage types we can easily be reduced to being Master Marksman and having to use a Pistol/Rifle/Carbine.
Armor and Resistances bring us to a halt.
Grenades and Consumables are EXTREMELY time consuming and costly.
In summary
PROS
16m or closer we can have a devastating attack
Can make pretty explosions
CONS
We get +5 ranged, +5 melee, and +5 knockdown defense skills.
We start with +10 accuracy/+0 speed and at BEST get +80 accuracy/+45 speed.
We only get 2 specials. Both work 16m or closer.
Using specials leaves us useless for 15 seconds to 8 seconds depending on skill.
No point to getting Master Commando.
Must train Master Pistoleer to use Launcher Pistol
Have 77 skill points free after Master Commando, 60 after you get exploration 1.
No point to getting any tree but Flamethrower 4 at this time.
Start over again at novice commando
400,000 weapon xp earned to get Novice not used in commando tree
Ehrgeiz Zwiehander Here's a little math for you:
FWG558-201 2.0s and Heavy Acid Rifle 301-719 5.3s will be used for this example. (HAR instead of FT because I can't remeber the average FT stats off-handand I want to be as accurate as possible)
REMaverage damage (58 + 201) / 2 = 129.5 (301 + 719) / 2 = 510
REM attacks per minute 60 / 2 = 30 60 / 5.3 = 11.32
REM damage per minute 129.5 * 30 = 3885 510 * 11.32 = 5773.58
As you can see, we obviously do more raw damage. Remeber however, we cannot cause any status conditions at all and our weapon's accuracy is extremely low (+0 at our ideal range and -119 at max) so we still don't hit every time, unlike a pistoleer who can run at 64m while his target is also running and hit almost every time. This also doesn't take specials into account.
Just some cold hard facts for you guys to work with during debates.
Sorry about the formatting. Try this one.
Here's a little math for you:
FWG558-201 2.0s and Heavy Acid Rifle 301-719 5.3s will be used for this example. (HAR instead of FT because I can't remeber the average FT stats off-handand I want to be as accurate as possible)
REMaverage damage (58 + 201) / 2 = 129.5 (301 + 719) / 2 = 510
REM attacks per minute 60 / 2 = 30 60 / 5.3 = 11.32
REM damage per minute 129.5 * 30 = 3885 510 * 11.32 = 5773.58
As you can see, we obviously do more raw damage. Remeber however, we cannot cause any status conditions at all and our weapon's accuracy is extremely low (+0 at our ideal range and -119 at max) so we still don't hit every time, unlike a pistoleer who can run at 64m while his target is also running and hit almost every time. This also doesn't take specials into account.
Just some cold hard facts for you guys to work with during debates.
All I have to say...
I was a Master Marksman and Master Pistoleer (while waiting for the class I wanted to play since DAY ONE was fixed - Commando's)..
With Master Pistoleer and Master Marksman, using a speed sliced FWG5 and Fanshot, I could do 600-1400 dmg EVERY ONE SECOND. Yes, every ONE SECOND. Same with my launcher pistol. If I was unbuffed, I'd tear through my HAM bar in less than 10 seconds, EMPTY. If I was buffed, I was a KILLING MACHINE. 10,000 damage on AVERAGE every 10 seconds, and when buffed, I could hold that up INDEFINATELY.
I just don't get it how people can keep using the argument that all combat classes should be equal. Yes we as Commando's do spend more skill points to get where we are, but unlike a Pistoleer, we can't Master two other professions as well. Why should a Pistoleer have equal damage to a Commando and stillbe able to Master Combat Medic? A Commando can only Master one other BASE profession. Heck I'm very uninformed about what I just said because I don't even know if it's possible to master another base profession. From my template so far, I think it's possible but I haven't really worked it out so correct me if I'm wrong please.
A Pistoleer can become much more independent and multiskilled than a Commando. Why then should a Pistoleer be on equal grounds in combat? Where is a Commando's reward for not being able to be as multiskilled?
I rest my case, and I'm glad that Commando's are where they are today.
We get 3 points left over I believe if you master a base proffession, medic for example. Or we get 18 points if we use the prerequisites we already have; Teras Kasi, Smuggler, Pistoleer etc. The 18 skill points will allow you to pick up either novice scout or medic and 1 tier 1 skill.
Roakee
To reiterate, restate what other smart folks have said about this (and it makes me mad to think how idiotic some folks can be)...
1. You cannot simply take a look how much damage is done in any single shot since
2. Not every shot hits,
3. You MUST consider accuracy and
4. ROF (attack speed) of the weapon,
In short, these factors make the commando a different kind of combat spec vs. the pistoleer. Pistoleers can mop the floor with most anybody yet are considered "equal" to a commando. Consider that the commando hits less often but does more dmg per hit; the pistoleer hits much, much more often and does less damage per hit. Averaging it all out, the amount of dmg done by both combat specs is, I would say, about equal. Is it any wonder most folks go pistoleer??? All u gotta do is whip out the pistol, kneel, healthshot, and bodyshot until the sukker is dead. So what if the opponent comes up to melee? You're better off kneeling and getting hit more often b/c u can hit more often with your pistol! With my commando, I find I don't even have the option of lying prone, which pistoleers, carabineers, and riflemen can all do: Instead, I have to kneel or stand at the end of my range (around 60 m), hoping to hit in the first shot before the enemy can run up to me or figure out I'm shooting at him. Needless to say, not being able to lie prone allows for quick discovery so that I am attacked almost immediately. Furthermore, commandos have those moronic animations that lag the crap out of the game... Exploding fire from a flame thrower??? You gotta be kidding me. In the end, commandos will have their role to play as an alternative combat style for ranged fighters. I am not totally against reducing weapon damage--but only if it is coupled with area-effectdmg optionfor all heavy weapons, allowing you to strike multiple targets. I also advocate highly variable damage coupled with lower minimal and higher maximum dmg on heavy weapons.
Acid should do DOT. When was the last time you were covered in acid and only took damge ONCE? Oh, Lord, the Devs must be crazy or smokin something from a galaxy far, far away when they programmed no DOT for the acid weapons! Fact: You'll continue to take damage until the acid evaporates or has expired through its eating away of your flesh or whatever the heck it is you're wearing...! Acid should just be another kind of heavy wpn dot gun as the flame thrower is its own kind of dot gun: only one seems to be more effective against another creature. Sure, acid could damage armor more than usual--but why shouldn't fire??? I might say that both fire and acid would damage armor more, considering how it actually affects it with these kinds of weapons--though acid might do more damage only because some might be more resistant to one kind of attack or another (more likely to be fire?).
BTW, does anyone think the heavy support weapons look dorky? They appear to be like the stupid spraystick, which I will not buy simply because I don't want to shoot a periscope/inhaler/atomizer at my enemy. It just ain't right.