Commando Archive

Thread: Time Delay Removal!

Unskilled1
Fri Jul 23, 2004 4:45 am
#27

i still dont see how this would help commandos in PvP?


wouldnt FS2 still take 8seconds to get off? (i dont understand)


and what about the other 3 trees even if HAR was faster its still a terable weapon.


this is going to be the one proffesion that a quick fix wont work on to much is broke !!!


Oslock
Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:53 am
#28

/SIGN
garvin
Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:00 am
#29






Unskilled1 wrote:

i still dont see how this would help commandos in PvP?


wouldnt FS2 still take 8seconds to get off? (i dont understand)


and what about the other 3 trees even if HAR was faster its still a terable weapon.


this is going to be the one proffesion that a quick fix wont work on to much is broke !!!







From what I have been looking at, the length of the Combat Queue Delay timer (or reload timer) that happens post special is effected by our level of speed mods and the speed of our weapon...but up'ing our speed mods, we could in fact lower the combat queue delay timer...


Ever profession has a reload timer after thier specials...most are just much faster then ours...





Garvin Lansdowne
Retired Commando Correspondent - Current Blue Glowie

Master Commando / TKM || Architect / Shipwright / Master Droidsmith

ShadowStyrkeGuild.com: A WoW Guild Website

Combat_Medic_to_be
Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:12 am
#30

final_delay = special_delay_multiplier * weapon_delay * (100 - speed_bonus)/100

* final_delay -- the delay you actually swing/fire at
* weapon_delay -- the delay listed on your weapon
* special_delay_multiplier -- a multiplier that depends on the special you are using, 1.0 when you are not using a special
* speed_bonus -- the speed bonus you have for the weapon you are using, as listed in your skills menu. This might also be modified by skill attachments.

This final_delay, is capped at 1 second. As you tend towards a 100 speed bonus you will move towards the 1 second speed cap.


Thats the speed formula.


I REALLY would love to see what garvin has suggested go through. Its a nice quick fix to the proffesion giving commandos exactly what they need. If 2 or 3mini publishes could be pushed through with similar alterations to the proffesion it could easily be fixed.


As fas as I'm aware (im not a commando yet but planning to be one soon) there is nothing really broken just need a few numbers added here and there to skill mods and weapon stats. Commando can easily and quickly be made into a competitive class without being overpowered



Jendi Akasce - Nevaeh
A carebear tumbleweed

Syzygy-Gorath
Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:33 am
#31






garvin wrote:





Unskilled1 wrote:

i still dont see how this would help commandos in PvP?


wouldnt FS2 still take 8seconds to get off? (i dont understand)


and what about the other 3 trees even if HAR was faster its still a terable weapon.


this is going to be the one proffesion that a quick fix wont work on to much is broke !!!



From what I have been looking at, the length of the Combat Queue Delay timer (or reload timer) that happens post special is effected by our level of speed mods and the speed of our weapon...but up'ing our speed mods, we could in fact lower the combat queue delay timer...


Ever profession has a reload timer after thier specials...most are just much faster then ours...




As Garvin said, there's always a reload time between specials—on most professions this isn't as big a deal because their personal speed mods are significantly higher than ours. Let's do the math, based on my own Commando (2-4-4-4) toon:


actual_delay = weapon_delay * special_attack_delay_multiplier * ((100 - personal_speed_modifier) / 100)


Based on my combat spam, it takes me 8 seconds between flameSingle2s. The flamethrower I'm using is a 3.5 speed. My personal speed modifier for flamethrower is +45. That just leaves the special attack delay multiplier.


8 = 3.5 * special_attack_delay_modifier * ((100 - 45) / 100)

8 = 3.5 * special_attack_delay_modifier * (55 / 100)

8 = 3.5 * special_attack_delay_modifier * 0.55

8 = 1.925 * special_attack_delay_modifier

8 / 1.925 = special_attack_delay_modifier

4.156 = special_attack_delay_modifier


Now, bearing in mind that the observed delay was just a shot 1 to shot 2, and isn't particularly granular, let's just call the special attack delay modifier 4x. So we now have 3 things which we can change to increase our speed: weapon_delay, special_attack_delay_modifier, and personal_speed_modifier. weapon_delay is an illogical thing to push for a change in—the chances that it would be retroactive are slim to none, so we'll scratch that off. That leaves special_attack_delay_modifier and personal_speed_modifier.


Let's say we ask that the special attack delay modifier be halved. This would give us a value of roughly 2x for flameSingle2, and would (in my case) work out to a flameSingle2 every 3.85 seconds. A vast improvement, but keep in mind that this improvement would reward all commandos equally, it would not reward those that climb higher in the tracks.


Now let's say we ask for an additional +30 Flamethrower Speed in the master box (and let's assume I get another 230K Combat XP instantly) it would equate to a flameSingle2 every 3.5 seconds. An even better improvement, not only in that it speeds up our attacks more, giving us a higher DPS value, but in that it also rewards dedication to the profession by attaining mastery.




œ Slone Varnillian œ Eicia Obai œ Panda-Sy œ
Most of the universe's problems can be solved by the application of a brick to the side of the right head.
The problem is if you don't have a big enough brick or can't find the right head. The devil is in the details.
œ Galena Varnillian œ Ammon œ Gwrtheyrn œ

Unskilled1
Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:21 pm
#32

thanks for explaining it to me i think i got it .


sounds great hopefully we can test it out soon.




also is this the only change we have coming before JTL or just the first. seams like fixing the grenades would be easy to do
Stupmster
Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:57 pm
#33

this +25/+30 speed in the master box sounds really, really, really awsome

/sign



______________________________________________________________________

Sazu Nez'kre - Bothan Super Commando
Fugacity
Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:03 am
#34

Giving a +25 speed would decrease the special from 8 seconds to slightly over 5 seconds. +30 would be just under 5. This would be really easy for them to add, and would drastically reduce our special time and with it our dps.

Its not a total cure, but its something that will be a huge step in the right direction.

Message Edited by Fugacity on 07-28-2004 03:04 PM

Kelko
Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:31 am
#35






Skeptic666 wrote:


OK the verdict is in.


Looks like getting rid of the time delay or reducing it a fair amount at master commando is the best rout to go. Another thing would be to reduce the Weapon switch time on weapons in your same profession.


please post your thoughts or sigs here to show your support so Garvin can see and show to the Devs and TH.


Please post Good things and productive things so this will be a useful post please!







/sarcasm


I was playing SWG the other night and thinkin, hey the reason that the devs put the swap delay in was to be more realistic. I mean realistically if you have multiple wepaons, it takes you a short time to switch between weapons. You know, your balsting away with your pistol and you have to take the time to holster it and then pull your rifle out that is slung across your back. I can see this. Just like they wanted to be more realistic in giving high end Jedi this really realistic ability to block 9 out of 10 ranged attacks all coming from multiple attackers and different directions, sure I can see this. Or better yet to be realistic and block a wall of flame coming at you with a 4 in diameter plasma beam, sure I can see that. Oh, wait a minute, crap I've went and done it again. I have confused realism with fantasy. Oh well at least the devs have it straight.




SWG+PUB 19+CU+NGE = Crap
Chabian
Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:53 am
#36

Garvin;

Would it be possible to for the Development team to add in a AOE DoT attack to Protons(Fire Dot) & Glop (Action DoT) that would do some signifcant damage like our Bio-Warfare toating CM's?

Also, grenades play lil part in my role as of now - 5 per stack is pretty useless, is there any way that could be upped to 25 or 30 like our Rockets?

Thank you

-= Takai
Tulaik
Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:46 pm
#37

/bump this back up and /sign. If this went though I would have to think about re-mastering commando since I dropped it when the big nerf hit.
garvin
Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:32 pm
#38






Chabian wrote:
Garvin;

Would it be possible to for the Development team to add in a AOE DoT attack to Protons(Fire Dot) & Glop (Action DoT) that would do some signifcant damage like our Bio-Warfare toating CM's?

Also, grenades play lil part in my role as of now - 5 per stack is pretty useless, is there any way that could be upped to 25 or 30 like our Rockets?

Thank you

-= Takai




I've been definitely pushing for up'ing the grenade pack #s...


I'll bring to the Devs the AOE DoT idea and see if I can get a response...thx...




Garvin Lansdowne
Retired Commando Correspondent - Current Blue Glowie

Master Commando / TKM || Architect / Shipwright / Master Droidsmith

ShadowStyrkeGuild.com: A WoW Guild Website

Syzygy-Gorath
Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:45 pm
#39






garvin wrote:





Chabian wrote:
Garvin;

Would it be possible to for the Development team to add in a AOE DoT attack to Protons(Fire Dot) & Glop (Action DoT) that would do some signifcant damage like our Bio-Warfare toating CM's?

Also, grenades play lil part in my role as of now - 5 per stack is pretty useless, is there any way that could be upped to 25 or 30 like our Rockets?

Thank you

-= Takai




I've been definitely pushing for up'ing the grenade pack #s...


I'll bring to the Devs the AOE DoT idea and see if I can get a response...thx...



Speaking of AoEs, and I apologize if I jst missed this one, is there any particular reason that the flameCone specials have such a constricted range compared to pointblankArea1? I realized while finishing up smuggler that I was hitting things directly behind me (0-1 meter distance)with PBA1, whereas with flameCone1/2 I have to lead by about 8 meters to get things in front of me into the AoE…seemed kind of odd to me.




œ Slone Varnillian œ Eicia Obai œ Panda-Sy œ
Most of the universe's problems can be solved by the application of a brick to the side of the right head.
The problem is if you don't have a big enough brick or can't find the right head. The devil is in the details.
œ Galena Varnillian œ Ammon œ Gwrtheyrn œ

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