Commando Archive
Thread: More on the commando change
I have a real problem with any of our weapons being consitered a rifle. That is the reason why there are so many dabblers in the commando tree. You can get maximum effect from a single line. Making the HAR a true rifle and further increase the amount of dabblers taking only flameIV.
Elite combat professions have their speed and accuracy spread out across their profession.
Flame Thrower and Heavy Acid LAUNCHER should be combined into one line.
Field Tactics should become a HW XP based line.
Our combat xp line should increase speed and accuracy with heavy weapons.
This will allow people who commit to being a commando to seperate themselves from the dabblers.
Nohau
There is always a place for collaboration on ideas between classes, and it is welcome within the commando community. Talk to your correspondent, perhaps have yours get in touch with ours, or Master Synn, when you read this, perhaps you ought to talk to the BH or Rifleman correspondents about this damage multiplier specifically.
To chime in for Holo, I saw a (dev?) post regarding the damage multiplier, musing about making it dependent on state rather than class.... I think it would be a great idea to move the penalty to prone:2.5x, kneel 1.5x, standing 1x.
As it is, I know a lot of commandos WERE disappointed by the fact that we have no real "use" for our unarmed tree... but now its kind of a cruel joke for the commandos, in that we have to get trained in unarmed, and burn skill points in a tree which sounds pretty good, but helps us in no way shape or form... and watch as we get *crushed* by those using the skills we were supposed to have specialized in.
If the HAR were unborked, and could be used well from long range, it would alleviate the need to use the FT, but not the underlying problem: the FT, while not useless, is not useful, because the specials have been rendered almost useless--- and we don't want to be given the HAR just to compensate that we lost the FT!
The FT is the commando's staple.... by developer design(apparently), by player choice, and by necessity.
And guys, I've been thinking about the situation, and it really seems like the FT just got put right where the HAR was pre-patch (with better acc. bonuses, granted), and the HAR, of course, just got worse. If you want to die, use the HAR---> if you want to die, try to kill a midlevel mob with the FT.
Athein
Another thing to add to this from another point of view. The problems you might still be seeing might be from the armor not working right from the patch. I have been playing lately and have found that my armor has not been up to par since the patch.
Now since the devs have taken out the revenge tef, some ppl might not get flamed(sorry for the pun). And if they fix the armor problem, things might get better and a little more clear on the damage.
But i could be wrong.
MSP0
If you read this,
One large problem is, there isn't a whole lot more to commandos than FT...
because, all of our other weapons are broken(HAR) or very expensive(special heavy weapons) or a combination of th two(grenades).
The HAR is slightly < the FT at novice, but quickly becomes obsolete since accuracy, and I think speed bonuses don't work right.
When those get fixed, we'll be happier, but the FT is still, by design a short range weapon, and we can't use it at short range, because of extended melee damage range, teleports and, apparently, as I just read, the fact that it still counts as having the FT equipped for the duration of the delay, even if you unequip it.
Holocron,
The biggest problem here is that the commando tree hasbecome a one-trick pony; the flamethrower line. Over 95% of the commandos posting here use the flamethrower in all situations and nothing but the flamethrower. They want the rifle damage 2.5 penalty removed so they can continue to "tank" creatures with the flamethrower. This is bad. No one weapon in this skilltree should be made to be the most useful in all situations like it has been for the last month. Please, fix the heavy acid rifle and make other adjustments so that players would have to choose the "right tool for the job" instead of just using the flamethrower as a crutch like it is now.
Ello all,
I started my first Elite Profession as a Riflegirl. Then the teleporting MOBs and x2.5 damage multiplier started getting to me. So I took up a side career as a Commando. I fell in love with it. Sure, I had to change me character a lot, start actually wearing armor, get up close, etc... but I was having *fun*!
Now it seems that I am living in a waking nightmare where I'm somehow right back where I started, but I can't actually shoot at long range as a Commando... I have always thought that damage multiplier based on what type of weapon you are wielding were *NOT* the solution the game system needed. Damage multipliers vs. melee should entirely be based on what physical position your character is in - ie. Prone vs. Kneeling vs. Standing. It makes perfect sense that if you boot someone in the head when they are laying on thr ground in front of you you will do more damage... But if they're wielding a rifle or a flamethrower, suddenly they bruise easily and explode if punched?!? This makes no sense...
I have been completely depressed since this patch has been released... I was just getting into my character, was going down the Master Commando path (Im 1/1/4/0 atm) and was excited about it... Now Im thinking about buying another game until things can get sorted out.... This is the second career in a row that has been nerfed MAJORLY since I started playing... I dont want to go for a third and see that one cave in around me as well...
Caylie Deathwalker
Rebel Master Commando
Commando (1/1/4/0) / Riflegirl (1/0/0/2)
Well,as I see things:
1) Yes Holo, your perception of what was done vs. what we thought was being done are correct.
2) Grenadesand other weapons in the Heavy Support tree ( Particle Cannons, etc.) have a very limitied number of uses and are very expensive to purchase. They are for the most part intended to (as they should be) be used only in certain situations with the support of other 'conventional' weaponry or in very dire circumstances.
3) Looking at the PB/Ideal/Max range modifers for the 2 'standard' Commando weapons (Flame Thrower and Acid Rifle) tells us that these weapons, when modelled into the game, were intended for usage at very close (Read: MELEE) range. In the case of the Flame Thrower, this is as it should be. Flame Throwers have always (Dating back to its usage in WW II), been intended as and used for close combat support. Itshould be neither a ranged nor a melee weapon by game standards, rather it should be a some sort of hybrid of the two, perhaps allowing the user the ability to deal heavy damage close up, as well as force opponents out of cover, but having a marked decrease in effectiveness(both in terms of to-hit anddamage)as the target gets further away . Bonus damage should only ever come into play on kneeling/prone opponents rather than being determined by which weapon the opponent has selected. In turn, the user would not suffer an exteremely significant melee damage penalty for its use.( I am thinking maybe 1x or 1.25X damage). He would still do good front-end damage, however the 'DoT' effect would be somewhat reduced (slightly less damage and a reduced chance of causing wounds)
4) The Acid Rifle is a case unto itself : having really no 'real world' model to go in, it was obviously modelled to be in the same vein as the Flame Thrower. However its generally 'weak' (compared to the Flame Thrower) damage makes it an unpopular choice among almost all Commandos, esp. those without a lot of credits to toss around on all sorts of weapons. Perhaps this weapon would be better modelled as you intended, capable of dealing good damage at range, but not nearly as heavy as the flame thrower, with the added bonus of being very effective against structures. Re-working it in the same vein as the rifle (i.e. capable of consistent accuracy at range with a marked drop in efficency as the target draws nearer) would go a long way towards making it a viable weapon, though this would also neccessitate the scrapping of its current special attack and its replacment with a newer,more appropriate special attack.
5) The major problem I, as well sveral other have run into with both the Flame Thrower and the Acid Rifle is the inability to successfully hit a target with consistentcy. Often times, I will miss a target 3-4 times in a row before connecting. Commandos are often placed in a situation where making the shot or missing it spells the difference between life and death. To not allow us the requisite amount of skill needed to consistently 'amke the shot' is tantamount to a death sentence for your character.
7) Commandos,by definition, are elite solider intensively trained to be effective in any combat situation, with any and all weapons. This training is done not only in the classroom but extends to physical training as well. They are, without a doubt, in peak physical condition, and are trained as such to be able to endure more hardship than the average soldier, as their operations often see them operating behind enemy lines in unknown conditions, quite possibly for extended periods of time. What separates a commando from the average 'grunt' is that his training makes him BETTER, more focused, more able to endure injury and hardship, more accurate and deadly with a weapon, than a normal solider, capable of being sent in to accomplish tasks deemed 'too difficult' for standard Armed Forces, or against targetsof such importance that success is an absolute MUST,with little or no outside support. I assume the stringent requirements ,(esp. the Unarmed), are intended to reflect this intensity and level of training: to makes your character MORE able to endure punishment injury and hardship than average. However, imposing a penalty such that he takes more damage than say, a Pistoleer, who is in effect, someone who has spent years perfecting their mastery of the sidearm,for sure, but has not neccessarily gone through the intense physical training required to be able to operate effectively even in a conventional front line combat situation, essentially takes all that time and skill points spentin fullfilling the requirements ( or, in terms of the game world, the characters time spent undergoing exteremely rigorous physical and mental training) and essentially throws it all out the window and entirely removes the feeling of being 'an elite and highly trained soldier' from the class, (I believe this kind of stems from the 'movieized' version some people have of Commando/Spec Forces soliders, i.e. Jackie Chan the Cook/Musician/Department Store Santa or whatever the heck he is playing in the movie breezes through 55 Green Berets), which I feel in turn redcues its enjoyment level for many. Now,I realize this is game and there has to be balance,etc., so No, a commando should not stand so head and shoulders above he rest as to be almost untouchable by any other save other Commandos,.However, YES, a Commando should be just slightly better than a character of the same level of skills in an elite profession, though not other combat related hybrid professions. I was always led to believe that is how it should be for a hybird profession, the payoff for fulfilling the stringent requirements, thereby having less points to dabble outside their chosen profession, was that whatever it is your hybrid profession does, you do it darn good, in fact on a level that puts you slighly above the great majority in the same general field, and not to have additional penalties slapped upon you to the point where others in the same general profession type who did not fulfill the same number of requirements you did, can outperform you. If that is the case, then bother with hybrid professions,at all?
Holocron,
The biggest problem here is that the commando tree hasbecome a one-trick pony; the flamethrower line. Over 95% of the commandos posting here use the flamethrower in all situations and nothing but the flamethrower. They want the rifle damage 2.5 penalty removed so they can continue to "tank" creatures with the flamethrower. This is bad. No one weapon in this skilltree should be made to be the most useful in all situations like it has been for the last month. Please, fix the heavy acid rifle and make other adjustments so that players would have to choose the "right tool for the job" instead of just using the flamethrower as a crutch like it is now.
No....we want the 2.5 penalty removed because its completely counter to our class fool. We are brawlers and unarmed specialists and yet we get beat up hand-to-hand like a fourth-grade nerd? I am a Master Commando (like many) and I assure you I am not calling for an un-nerf to give me back my 'crutch'.
if you want a good comparison of weapons...
Compare a Commando Acid Rifle versus a Bounty Hunter Scatter Pistol.
technically the Acid rifle should cause more damage.
At least one would think so...not in this game though...its 6 second rate of fire compared to a pistol with its 1.8 speed is pathetic.
But since the pistol has the same maximum range, with out the same penalties...and fires faster and has Armor Piercing, and technically does more damage on average.....
Hmm...I think maybe you should make the Commando weapons cause more damage at longer ranges, but have less accuracy.
They should also have a radius effect, that if fired too close will catch the user in the blast radius.
That damage increase from a melee attack is pathetic.
A punching person can punch a person at a longer range than a commando can hit them with a Flame Thrower special attack.
So anywise...if you want to make the game more blanced...increase the damage of the Heavy Weapons, a heavy weapon should be able to destroy someone with no armor if it hits.
Increase the damage resistance of armor.
And increase their blast radius...and while I am on the subject....increase the range grenades can be thrown...
As soon as an attack is initiated most things charge you, in this case by the time the grenade is thrown they are alot closer.
Again just increasing the blast radius of the weapons and making it possible to get caught in your own blast radius, along with your friends will curb most of the problems.
The Heavy Weapons will be used for long range attacks but then be switched for closer combat becasue no one will want to incapacitate themselves while firing.
The Launcher pistol is a good example...great graphics...if it did catch me in the blast radius I would not have used it as much, and switched to something else.
oh well...send me a message if you want me to explain any thing I wrote.
This explains a lot.....
As a commando that have to go close to my foe.......I was beaten up by 4 durnis today..before I managed to shoot all 4..(missed 5 times on the pesky critters)..I was down for the count.
I am a 3-3-4-4 Commando, 130k HW xp from master..and beaten by 4 durnis. I was shocked, and sowre that I had never seen a durni hit for 100 damage before..but..I guess..thats my life from now on..beaten by critters that novice CDEF wielding marksmen laugh of....or snipe them from 64m.
2.5X melee penalty to a class that is supposed to go in close. Who are trained to IV unarmed.....Yes, I am amazed. Holo if you want to try a commando, I am willing to let you try out my commando.
What we have as commandos are:
Launcher Pistol: low damage compared to other pistols, Ap 0(and it fires rockets?), low speed. No specials. If you want to be a efficiant Commando with this, stay novice and go Pistoleer. But don't ever ask about other pistols..as you may not stay Commando then...)
Flamer: decent damage, slow, specials that makes you go 16m or less from enemy, odd accuracy, exelent DoT, Ap 0, a delay after special where you can only run or die. (dps easily beaten by a fast pistol and a good shot like Fanshot..Mainstay weapon, but makes other people cry nerf when they see it)
Acid Rifle: lower than flamer damage, same specials, no doT, borked speed and accuracy..same special.(Forget it, until they fix it..use it when you got a tank, and the mob is only vulnerable to acid.)
Nades: many damage types, Each grenade is you throwing your credits out the window, okay damage..when you hit. slow. (Don't use these unless you feel for going broke and dead)
Heavy weapons: Yay! 5k damage!!..AP3!!..slow..misses alot..money out the window..a Rocketlauncher on Wanderhome goes for 40+++K credits..each shot with any of the guns cost you from 300-1000+ credits. Heavy damage if you hit, slow. (Don't use these unless you are desperate, and feel like going broke)
And now we have a 2,5X melee penalty.
What we needed fixed or "nerfed":
Make it easier to craft our "pay to shoot" weapons.
Remove the 2.5X bonus when shooting Riflemen
Lower the wound and damage on our burn DoT
Fix the skill mods for the Acid Rifle.
Fix the Revenge TEF.
You fixed 2 of these issues, one wich was abused by every hard hitting profession. One wich was annoying and bad for the riflemen. You did not fix a thing on Commandos, but instead you made us a close combat class that cannot dare to go close.
Well atleast i dont feel bad in cancelling my account. I havent logged in for days but my friend had told me about the new "quests". So i logged in in the middle of nowhere(tatooine) and proceeded to kill everything in my path(tried to). came along a patch of mtn squills i attacked one lo and behold incapped... Wow taking unarmed 4 to be dmg 2.5x when hit bymelee just doesnt make sense to me. All you had to do was get rid of the revenge TEF and lower or negate the wounds dealt by our specials and most everyone would have been happy. and sooner or later fix the other annoying nuisances which has been posted about over and over and over
oh well, enjoy everyone... maybe i'll be back when mounts or the space expansion comes.
AO: Shadowlands here i come...