Commando Archive
Thread: Why *Don't* We have AP?
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OnlyMaestro
Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:34 am
#14
You're kinda misinformed if I might say, in the age of everyone being a defense stacker, the weapon you're using is not only one you must be certified for, but capable of hitting your target with.
Having +60 accuracy with a weapon in PvP is an automatic miss against anyone with defenses whatsoever, which defense stackers are the norm. Even Master Commando's using /aim on defense stackers are still grateful to just hit.
In case you were unaware, the main AP weapon of the Marksman is the Laser Carbine, and the Laser Rifle which have AP2 if I am correct.
But unless you also pursue these professions, (hard to do as a Master Commando, sacrificing skill points you would need for Medic, TKA, Scout -- you will only have accuracy for both weapons at Master Marksman of +60, with a speed of +30.
Those stats are negligible for actual use.
If you WANT to use a Carbine, you're a carbineer. If you want to use a Rifle, you're a rifleman.
If you think I'm wrong, try being a Master Commando using a Laser Carbine, vs as Master Carbineer using a Laser Carbine. See who wins.
The Commando profession is stated as a specialist in using Heavy Weapons. Our heavy weapons are bugged/broken/expensive/accuracy's that do not mesh.
No AP for the FT and HAR mean an automatic 50% reduction against light armor, period, then add in resists. Then add in buffs.
The ingame and holocron defined message of a Commando is..."Someone who is a specialist in taking down Large armored vehicles." However our statistics do not add up, and if you ever try kneeling and using a RL in PvP on Eclipse, you would be dead in one second from a rifleman using Advanced Strafe, a Master Brawler using a 20m lunge move on you -- or any of the other varieties of specific templates that dominate Eclipse.
I'm sure you'll bring up the RL, HPBC...okay, A Master Commando using those, against an AT-ST...and a Master Rifleman using a T-21 vs an AT-ST.
Who's gonna kill the target first?
ZippoCleric
Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:36 pm
#15
you describe heavy as big lol yep big piece of $hit currently
Iwedgian
Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:42 pm
#16
Even if grenades can be used indoors, don't know, have to check, another problem is that the heavy AP grenades such as the protons, aside from having terrible HAM costs do heat damage...which many of the high level mobs seem to be resistant to.
Athenis
Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:40 pm
#18
i do agree that the HAR should have AP1 or 2 but the FT should not have any...it makes no sense at all..."i am shooting fire at you...and its gonna puch through your armor..."...yeah....uhh huh...good luck on that one...
Blu_Haze
Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:24 pm
#19
Athenis wrote:
i do agree that the HAR should have AP1 or 2 but the FT should not have any...it makes no sense at all..."i am shooting fire at you...and its gonna puch through your armor..."...yeah....uhh huh...good luck on that one...
Ever hear of fire melting through metal?
ShakariPsy
Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:06 pm
#20
Tal-N wrote:
Cannot use indoors : grenades can be used anywhere
Limited uses : massive damage
1000 credits spentper shot on average (not including if you sliced) : this I can agree with
Much slower cooldown : grenades are quite fast, ranged support weapons are used for group support hence the name
Almost no chance to hit (our modifiers are terrible) : I'd say a 50/50 at worse actually, with SteadyAim bonus and food you rarely miss
No specials (this means no headshot 3 to boost the damage) : except you have access to every damage type except stun which is far better
The fact is here that we do have the weapons already, sure they need some tweaking but that doesn't mean they aren't there. So the simple answer to 'Why don't we have AP' is that we do already. Also AP is meaningless when you have access to a wide variety of weapons to target vulnerabilities, frankly we need a stun weapon as well for PvP like that E-Web.
Cannot use indoors : grenades can be used anywhere, Oh you tried hitting stuff with them?
Limited uses : massive damage - not overtime compared with Other classes weapons massive dmg slowly is more like it!
1000 credits spentper shot on average (not including if you sliced) : this I can agree with - damn right which is unfair
Much slower cooldown : grenades are quite fast, ranged support weapons are used for group support hence the name - Grendes Cost a fortune and are generally pathetic
Almost no chance to hit (our modifiers are terrible) : I'd say a 50/50 at worse actually, with SteadyAim bonus and food you rarely miss - lol I wish I could hit 50% of the time :/
No specials (this means no headshot 3 to boost the damage) : except you have access to every damage type except stun which is far better - yeah but limited use and poor overall performance makes this mean nothing given that all the high end things have AR1 or greater.
I started commando on a 2nd char thinking it would be good, but the more I play the less I think it is on unarmoured targets it rules but against ar1+ it plain sucks imo, we should not have to pay 1K+ per shot to have armour piercing (or 1K+ to throw grenades). The disposable weps should nearly garentee a hit because they cost a lot per use, but they don't know where near :/
we should have ar1 on the Acid rifle,Launcher PistolandPossible the FT as well, NAME one other profession that uses a gun that does not have ANY constant use wep thats not at least AR1, I can't think of any??
OnlyMaestro
Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:28 pm
#21
Anyones my point for this thread...lol
Was a hope that a dev...JustG...TH...LordS would have a reason as to why our main, non-reusable weapons have no AP...when rifleman can pierce armor exponentially better than us, and so can carbineers. (no, I don't think they should nerf any class, I mean...Advanced Strafe every second for 2000damage is normal right?)
Just curious --
JohboBocal
Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:04 pm
#22
According to JustG the Senor Developer will be considering adding AP, hopefully AP3, to the HAR. Possibly some specials that can be used at "rifle" (long) range.
Almost forgot, this will be considered for P8, not P7.
Message Edited by JohboBocal on 03-01-2004 10:09 PM
Ster
Tue Mar 02, 2004 8:30 pm
#23
JohboBocal wrote:
According to JustG the Senor Developer will be considering adding AP, hopefully AP3, to the HAR. Possibly some specials that can be used at "rifle" (long) range.
Almost forgot, this will be considered for P8, not P7.
Message Edited by JohboBocal on 03-01-2004 10:09 PM
Ouch.. P8 you say.
Cuality
Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:33 am
#24
Tal-N wrote:
Cannot use indoors : grenades can be used anywhere
nope, can not be used inside anywhere... cave, base, cantina, inside the freakin starport...
Limited uses : massive damage
heh, most powerful grenade is proton, max dmg out of it is 4k,. ap1... so it doesnt take the initial 50% hit... we're looking at 1.3k a hit max in pvp (give or take)... man, thats heavy, but with a 5.0 speed and the fact that the HAM is 150, 130, 150... you more often than not, do more damage to yourself. PvE is another story, but most things dont stay in the nice ideal range, a lot of them run up to you... grenade hits, you take damage (go low defense) rockets are onlyuseful inkrayt huntsor bustin turrets... and even in PvE i have been outdamaged by a TKM...
1000 credits spentper shot on average (not including if you sliced) : this I can agree with
yeh, it should be expensive, massive dmg for a lot of money, too bad we dont have an everyday weapon that we can call our own
Much slower cooldown : grenades are quite fast, ranged support weapons are used for group support hence the name
yes.. i guess a grenade with 5.0 speed is fast considering what we normally work with, never mind that a rifleman can fire his rifle at one shot in less than a second. lets also pretend i spam a stack of proton grenades... oh wait... i cant, i can throw 3, and then my HAM bars are empty. the best grenades are thermal detonators in terms of dmg and HAM cost... but it still hurts to throw em... and why are we limited to being within 30m? 90 ft? thats from first base to second base.... yet, a cm can throw up to 90m... devs swapped it i guess...
Almost no chance to hit (our modifiers are terrible) : I'd say a 50/50 at worse actually, with SteadyAim bonus and food you rarely miss
can i have your weapons? i recently dumped 2 million into buying every peice of thrown weapon accuracy tapes and attachments. i currently running at 130 accuracy to grenades. i paid a newb 10k to test it out. no defense... no nothing, he stood there while i lobbed grenades at him. 3 full stacks of differentt types of grenades. he got hit by 2. 2/15 isnt bad. hitting people with rockets is rarer still, but it can happen, i hit a defense stacker with a RL today (im goin to vegas with those odds)
No specials (this means no headshot 3 to boost the damage) : except you have access to every damage type except stun which is far better
a rifleman has energy/ kinetic/ stun/ acid/ cold... a pistoleer has acid/ heat/ energy/ kinetic/ stun... a carbineer has acid/ heat/ energy/ kinetic... i could be a little off there, i think im missinga few... commando has blast/ heat/ acid/ cold/ energy/ lightning still looking for kinetic, well we got fists i guess. so we have cold instead of kinetic for pistol and lightning instead of stun... fair trade, considering EVERY composite armor peice is lightning special lightning resist. a master marksman can do the same types of dmg as a master marksman except for lightning... yay!
The fact is here that we do have the weapons already, sure they need some tweaking but that doesn't mean they aren't there. So the simple answer to 'Why don't we have AP' is that we do already. Also AP is meaningless when you have access to a wide variety of weapons to target vulnerabilities, frankly we need a stun weapon as well for PvP like that E-Web.
im not flaming you, i agree with what you are saying, just yer facts are a tad off. we are borked, we have one tree that works as it is supposed to, another tree that works, but is useless (grenades), another tree that works but is not even close to the dmg any other master can pull (hvy weps, we are a support, we destroy large things... and it does it, but a master rifle or a master tk can easily outdamage us), and the last tree is useless/broken/retarded.
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