Commando Archive

Thread: My Latest Post in the Correspondent Forum...In Regards to the 5 Second Delay

Eraint
Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:11 am
#14

/Cheer

Would like to see the results for this one.



Llew Eraint-Corbantis:Master Rifleman/Master Swordsman:
Ohock Backnaru-Corbantis: 10 pt Master WS/Merchant: Loot Vendor, Melee Sliced and unsliced Weapons -171, -5796 Corellia, South of Coronet
lisasdarren
Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:46 am
#15






garvin wrote:



So please create these 6 new specials as soon as possible...preferrable before, but definitely no later then Publish 10...


OR...if you feel it's too much work...then just remove the 5 second weapon delay and we'll get over not getting the 6 new Flame Specials at this time (we'll wait to see what comes along via the CB)...you decide...do the work to create new specials, or remove one change...Waiting till the Combat Balance doesn't solve anything happening in game today...and the CB is still a long time out to be expected to wait (especially since we've been patiently waiting since Publish 7)...





Garvin, I know you are here to represent the feelings of the Commando community, but being a correspondent with access to more information than the rest of us, can't you see the bigger picture?


I am not even master commando, yet,but since until the CB buffs and armour are unchanged I can flame away quite happily at critters without getting eaten and without the need to unequip my FT. I'll admit that i'd get whipped in PVP, but we all know that PVP is borked until the CB, so why bother making a fuss?


Just in case you havn't read my comments on why i think this weapon switching delay is a good idea i'll summarise.



  • Iknow this carries little weight with those who want to be great (I refuse to use the word "Uber") and are not here for the roleplay instantly switching weapons is unrealistic

  • If it was intended that you could land the specials of multiple professions one right after the other then all weapons would be able to use any specials you know, the idea of dabbling is to have the choice of using the carbine for state effects or the FT for massive damage and DOT, not so that you can use both together. The very fact that they have bought the delay in should tell you this.

  • If it was intended that you could avoid the negatives of using one type of weapon, while still getting its benefits then you wouldn't need to switch. You have low melee defences while using the FT, this is intended, if you were supposed to be able to shoot you FT and benefit from your TKA defences then you wouldn't need to switch weapons you would just get the benefits. Some defences combine, some don't this allows the balance between the attack qualities of the weapon you are using and the defences you have while using it.

I am in agreement with the community that a straight master commando can't compete with many of the other combat classes, however I accept this and have my fun burning things rather than trying to find ways around it which are obviously not as intended, which is made clearer by the fact that they have added this change.


Accept that until the CB we are not as good as others, go out and have fun doing the things you can do and have some patience or if you really have the need to be great in PVP switch professions to one that is until the CB takes place.


Look to the bigger picture and stop acting like children who hadtheir toy swords taken away for hittingeach other with them.


The devs can see the big picture and believe it or not they have the best interests of the entire game at heart, they are not out to get you, they are trying to improve things for everyone.





Trax Treort - Rifleman, Fencer & Imperial Pilot
SioBabble
Thu Jul 01, 2004 7:32 am
#16






lisasdarren wrote:


Look to the bigger picture and stop acting like children who hadtheir toy swords taken away for hittingeach other with them.


The devs can see the big picture and believe it or not they have the best interests of the entire game at heart, they are not out to get you, they are trying to improve things for everyone.







This is the most naive statement I think I have ever seen on these boards.


The devs have NO CLUE as to what the "big picture" might be, seeing as they have been repeatedly shown to have a poor grasp of some basic elements of game play that even new players quickly learn.


I have no trust in these people who cannot grasp the rules for calling pets in and out of cities, who repeatedly push patches live with the same bugs and glitches that have been reported to them on test center with no corrective action taken, and who insist on punishing the entire player base by making major changes to the game to compensate for the expoitive actions of a relative handful of players...while simultaneously allowing other exploits and bugs to persist for months with no action or even acknowledgement.




Tazz vonMannstein Baron-Administrator of Corellia, master navigator of Corellia, captain of the Gregarious Gurreck

Sio Babble MBH/MCH/Cabana Boy; master of Tyson, the GNORT OF DEATH

Jeffn Akbar Nerfed from here to Lok MD/MCM

Zanti Agaesia Bothan MBE, 12 point Master Chef, Havoc Squadron Ace pilot


JeffIncredible
Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:04 am
#17

I can see why some of the Master Commando's might not have too much of a problem with that. But as a novice (again) I need to switch between LP and FT and this delay sucks. I can understand the armor delay because that just makes more sense. But the weapon delay just doesn't cut it.



I USED TO take Defense Stacker 2....do you?

Ex-Triple Threat |o|o|o|O
garvin
Thu Jul 01, 2004 11:53 am
#18






lisasdarren wrote:






garvin wrote:



So please create these 6 new specials as soon as possible...preferrable before, but definitely no later then Publish 10...


OR...if you feel it's too much work...then just remove the 5 second weapon delay and we'll get over not getting the 6 new Flame Specials at this time (we'll wait to see what comes along via the CB)...you decide...do the work to create new specials, or remove one change...Waiting till the Combat Balance doesn't solve anything happening in game today...and the CB is still a long time out to be expected to wait (especially since we've been patiently waiting since Publish 7)...





Garvin, I know you are here to represent the feelings of the Commando community, but being a correspondent with access to more information than the rest of us, can't you see the bigger picture?


I am not even master commando, yet,but since until the CB buffs and armour are unchanged I can flame away quite happily at critters without getting eaten and without the need to unequip my FT. I'll admit that i'd get whipped in PVP, but we all know that PVP is borked until the CB, so why bother making a fuss?


Just in case you havn't read my comments on why i think this weapon switching delay is a good idea i'll summarise.



  • Iknow this carries little weight with those who want to be great (I refuse to use the word "Uber") and are not here for the roleplay instantly switching weapons is unrealistic

  • If it was intended that you could land the specials of multiple professions one right after the other then all weapons would be able to use any specials you know, the idea of dabbling is to have the choice of using the carbine for state effects or the FT for massive damage and DOT, not so that you can use both together. The very fact that they have bought the delay in should tell you this.

  • If it was intended that you could avoid the negatives of using one type of weapon, while still getting its benefits then you wouldn't need to switch. You have low melee defences while using the FT, this is intended, if you were supposed to be able to shoot you FT and benefit from your TKA defences then you wouldn't need to switch weapons you would just get the benefits. Some defences combine, some don't this allows the balance between the attack qualities of the weapon you are using and the defences you have while using it.

I am in agreement with the community that a straight master commando can't compete with many of the other combat classes, however I accept this and have my fun burning things rather than trying to find ways around it which are obviously not as intended, which is made clearer by the fact that they have added this change.


Accept that until the CB we are not as good as others, go out and have fun doing the things you can do and have some patience or if you really have the need to be great in PVP switch professions to one that is until the CB takes place.


Look to the bigger picture and stop acting like children who hadtheir toy swords taken away for hittingeach other with them.


The devs can see the big picture and believe it or not they have the best interests of the entire game at heart, they are not out to get you, they are trying to improve things for everyone.






Actually, I belive the Devs did NOT look at the big picture in this case...they needed a quick fix to patch a 1 major issue...The wanted to stop Speed DoT stacking via different types of DoTs...that is 100% their reason for the Weapon Delay...As far as I've heard, it has nothing to do with preperation for the CB...it's a band-aid it fix something while they work to come up with a better solution...but many others have suggested that the CB may help alleviate the pain of this delay...


The bigger picture is actually that this Delay doesn't seriously effect those professions that don't switch weapons often...Rifleman, Pistoleers, Swordsmen, Fencers, TKA, etc all use the same weapon type and all of their specials work with that same weapon type...But Professions like Bounty Hunter and Commandos utilize different weapon types...that's where the Devs missed the Smaller Picture...Our profession (even if our other weapons worked well) is dependent on weapon switching to compete...This Delay impacts us (BH's and Commandos) much more then other professions...


Normally I stand behind the Dev's choices when I think in the end everything will work out...but this Delay feels rushed and misguided...I don't believe the impact on BH's and Commandos were even considered when adding in the Weapon Delay...


The Devs have the overall game interest at heart...but in this case, they choose the bigger picture over the smaller profession...


It's my job to represent what is best for the Commando Community...This Delay hurts us...In the past we could use dabbled specials/weapons to enhance our own lacking skills...but with the change, It leaves us with 2 choices...use our FT longer or use another professions weapon longer...Gone are the days of "enhancement"...Most of us know that certain other professions can out damage us when it comes to DPS (Damage Per Second)...why would you use the FT with all it's delays, when you can keep a set of VKs equiped all battle and outdamage the FT in the same amount of time? Before we could use TKA to set up for a Flame Single...now it feels like we are pushed to choosing either TKA or Commando (or Rifleman, or Pistoleer, etc...what every you dabble)...


The Bigger Picture is that the smaller professions were considered in the equation...if they were, these Delays wouldn't have gone in until the CB...that way we would get our fixes at the same time and have other ways we could compete...instead we are NERF'd and asked to wait some more....


Message Edited by garvin on 07-01-2004 11:54 AM



Garvin Lansdowne
Retired Commando Correspondent - Current Blue Glowie

Master Commando / TKM || Architect / Shipwright / Master Droidsmith

ShadowStyrkeGuild.com: A WoW Guild Website

garvin
Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:12 pm
#19






jfang wrote:






garvin wrote:



Actually, I belive the Devs did NOT look at the big picture in this case...they needed a quick fix to patch a 1 major issue...The wanted to stop Speed DoT stacking via different types of DoTs...that is 100% their reason for the Weapon Delay...As far as I've heard, it has nothing to do with preperation for the CB...it's a band-aid it fix something while they work to come up with a better solution...but many others have suggested that the CB may help alleviate the pain of this delay...






Sorry to interrupt here. Can you please confirm that, Garvin? Every correspondent I've asked in the past always says "we don't know if the weapon switching delay is a bug or intentional, the devs haven't told us". Can you confirm that the devs have stated that weapon switching is in fact intentional and not some bug offshoot of something else?


Thanks.






The Weapon Delay and the Armor Delay were added on purpose and has been confirmed as such...


The Armor delay is BELIEVED to have been added due to Jedi not being allowed to wear armor and use their abilities (some were using a speed macro to add/remove armor before and after using their abilities)...


The Weapon delay was confirmed to have been added to prevent multiple cross profession speed DoT stacking...The Devs felt this was an unfairoutcome of "dabbling" and added in the Weapon Switch delay to prevent that...


Both delays were present on TC long before going live (in different fashions) and with Publish 9 was patched to live...

Message Edited by garvin on 07-01-2004 01:13 PM



Garvin Lansdowne
Retired Commando Correspondent - Current Blue Glowie

Master Commando / TKM || Architect / Shipwright / Master Droidsmith

ShadowStyrkeGuild.com: A WoW Guild Website

SioBabble
Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:25 pm
#20






garvin wrote:



The Weapon Delay and the Armor Delay were added on purpose and has been confirmed as such...


The Armor delay is BELIEVED to have been added due to Jedi not being allowed to wear armor and use their abilities (some were using a speed macro to add/remove armor before and after using their abilities)...


The Weapon delay was confirmed to have been added to prevent multiple cross profession speed DoT stacking...The Devs felt this was an unfairoutcome of "dabbling" and added in the Weapon Switch delay to prevent that...


Both delays were present on TC long before going live (in different fashions) and with Publish 9 was patched to live...

Message Edited by garvin on 07-01-2004 01:13 PM




Supposedly, there is somthing else driving the armor delay, but TH isn't talking. I think it's ONLYJedi undonning, using Force powers they can't use when armored, and redonning their robocop suits, and it's the usual powergaming asshats that are doing it. If that's the case, then ban the players doing it and stop punishing everyone else.


On the weapon delay to prevent multiple cross weapon DOT stacking. aka "dabbling" unfairness, let's just ditch the entire skill point system and go to straight, unimaginative, boring EQ style classes and get it over with.






Tazz vonMannstein Baron-Administrator of Corellia, master navigator of Corellia, captain of the Gregarious Gurreck

Sio Babble MBH/MCH/Cabana Boy; master of Tyson, the GNORT OF DEATH

Jeffn Akbar Nerfed from here to Lok MD/MCM

Zanti Agaesia Bothan MBE, 12 point Master Chef, Havoc Squadron Ace pilot


Daker-Naritus
Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:31 pm
#21






garvin wrote:



The Weapon delay was confirmed to have been added to prevent multiple cross profession speed DoT stacking...The Devs felt this was an unfairoutcome of "dabbling" and added in the Weapon Switch delay to prevent that...




Couldn't the devs just add a "latest dot wins" rule? Each new dot replaces it predecessor?


Oh and by the way.... Are you talking stacking DOTs on the same pool, or different pools?



If by dabbling in 2 professions I get a health dot and an action dot....how is that unbalancing? Neither of them stack or complement/help each other, and death is determined by which SINGLE pool depletes first.


Arguably, a person who is stacking dots on multiple pools is wasting their time, as only one pool matters, and that player could have used those seconds they were stacking dots beating on a single HAM pool.



The DOT system should be: You can put ONE dot on each HAM pool, with the latest being the one that sticks. You can put 3 dots on a person total...one for each HAM pool.




As a side note: PLEASE don't let the devs forget that EVERY class has an incentive to switch weapons, causes by mob resistances to different damage types. Even pistoleers/riflemen/carbineers/swordsmen/fencers/pikemen have an incentive to switch damage types if the damage type they are using is ineffective.


Pikit lairs are a perfect example... Some pikits (all within the same lair) are weak to acid and resistant to energy, others are weak to energy and resistant to acid. Any pistoleer/riflemen/carbineer will need to switch weapons continuously while fighting a pikit lair.


RazerWolf
Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:40 pm
#22

I went up against a Master Brawler/Master Swordsman/Master TKA. Mind Poison Janta Knife, Mind Poison Nightsister Lance, Mind Disease Nightsister Lance, Mind Fire Nightsister Lance, Mind Disease Gamorrean Battleaxe, Power Hammer Mind Bleed, VKs, UnarmedHeadHit1 ad mortuum. Even as a Master Doc I had no chance.



_________________________________________________________
Artoc Lero, Soldier - Starsider - Master Rifleman, Master Doctor - On Hiatus

Brynneth - WoW, Argent Dawn
TBC - WoW, Tichondrius
Daker-Naritus
Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:57 pm
#23






RazerWolf wrote:
I went up against a Master Brawler/Master Swordsman/Master TKA. Mind Poison Janta Knife, Mind Poison Nightsister Lance, Mind Disease Nightsister Lance, Mind Fire Nightsister Lance, Mind Disease Gamorrean Battleaxe, Power Hammer Mind Bleed, VKs, UnarmedHeadHit1 ad mortuum. Even as a Master Doc I had no chance.






Ok, now THAT needs to have the crap nerfed out of it.


HOWEVER, a weapon switching delay is NOT the answer...


Latest dot wins is the answer...

Evelas
Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:25 pm
#24

Go Garvin! Give em hell!



Evelas - Jedi, Magnan - template pending
"I'm just dying for them to give Jedi that neat power that allows them to yank weapons out of your hand, so I can pull out a Grenade just as he's doing it." -Merc93
Tyrst
Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:37 pm
#25

Not sure if this has been said before, but, essentially what the devs have done is made all of our prerequisite professions useless to us. Why make us master marksman and unarmed 4 if we can't effectively use those professions. The unarmed tree allows us to PD, Dizzy, Stun, and Blind our opponents in melee range. The marksman tree allows us to do all of these things as well from range. If we were to try and use our prerequisite skills in PvP out opponents would be standing again before we could even get our flame thrower equipped.



Teer Sanbar
Widow Makers

The Emperors Servant
Eraint
Fri Jul 02, 2004 12:11 am
#26

Thanks for going to bat for us. I just checked over on the test cente forum and they have the new list for changes on TC, no word on alleviating this pain for us. I will keep my flamethrower but looks like unless they are not flame resistant, its my VB until they fix us.



Llew Eraint-Corbantis:Master Rifleman/Master Swordsman:
Ohock Backnaru-Corbantis: 10 pt Master WS/Merchant: Loot Vendor, Melee Sliced and unsliced Weapons -171, -5796 Corellia, South of Coronet
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