Commando Archive

An interesting proposal Ackehace, and we appreciate you for it. This would be an interesting way of making all our (or at least most) useful to a master commando via a sort of a diminishing gain (where a LP will be bumped up to be usable by a Master Commando, while a HAR would get less of a bump, the LBC barely, and the PFT not much or none at all)

It solves one of our three major problems, but the issue of living up to our role in damage, and AoE still remains. At least, our role in damage will be helped by this as we have more utility with our weapons, but we'll still come up short and will still need a different way to power-up specials via actual damage, rather than an AoE of damage thats spread out over a target radius.

At least, thats what Im percieving this as...that with commando damage would add damage based on CL to HW, and in theory every commando weapon would be just like a CL 54 master HW as a result. Having just a general increase (and thus a PFT would get bumped up as much as an LP) would be too unbalancing. Am I correct with your vision?

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StarNick wrote:
An interesting proposal Ackehace, and we appreciate you for it. This would be an interesting way of making all our (or at least most) useful to a master commando via a sort of a diminishing gain (where a LP will be bumped up to be usable by a Master Commando, while a HAR would get less of a bump, the LBC barely, and the PFT not much or none at all)

It solves one of our three major problems, but the issue of living up to our role in damage, and AoE still remains. At least, our role in damage will be helped by this as we have more utility with our weapons, but we'll still come up short and will still need a different way to power-up specials via actual damage, rather than an AoE of damage thats spread out over a target radius.

At least, thats what Im percieving this as...that with commando damage would add damage based on CL to HW, and in theory every commando weapon would be just like a CL 54 master HW as a result. Having just a general increase (and thus a PFT would get bumped up as much as an LP) would be too unbalancing. Am I correct with your vision?

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My suggest also has the added advantage of turning the Launcher pistol (non AOE right?) slowly into a CL 50-54 weapon as you progress for master commandos. The Launcher pistol would be a Key Weapon from this point on as a weapon you can use specials from other professions with that is non-aoe.

It solves one of our top 3 issues.

very well thought out to.

as for the theory that commando+rifleman would be very powerful offensively, well duh, That's supposed to happen when you stack 2 nuker proffessions.

I love it! This is such a simple idea, yet fixes all the problems I (personally) have with the current state of Commando. We would be able to effectively use our "specials" (i.e. weapons)!

(I actually like the AOE too (unlike most, it would seem ), so I'm glad there's an idea out there that manages to keep it )

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Ackehece wrote:

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StarNick wrote:
An interesting proposal Ackehace, and we appreciate you for it. This would be an interesting way of making all our (or at least most) useful to a master commando via a sort of a diminishing gain (where a LP will be bumped up to be usable by a Master Commando, while a HAR would get less of a bump, the LBC barely, and the PFT not much or none at all)

It solves one of our three major problems, but the issue of living up to our role in damage, and AoE still remains. At least, our role in damage will be helped by this as we have more utility with our weapons, but we'll still come up short and will still need a different way to power-up specials via actual damage, rather than an AoE of damage thats spread out over a target radius.

At least, thats what Im percieving this as...that with commando damage would add damage based on CL to HW, and in theory every commando weapon would be just like a CL 54 master HW as a result. Having just a general increase (and thus a PFT would get bumped up as much as an LP) would be too unbalancing. Am I correct with your vision?

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My suggest also has the added advantage of turning the Launcher pistol (non AOE right?) slowly into a CL 50-54 weapon as you progress for master commandos. The Launcher pistol would be a Key Weapon from this point on as a weapon you can use specials from other professions with that is non-aoe.

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My only problem with this is that I hate having to use a hand-gun as the only alternative to our other weapons. I really dislike the idea of the LP playing a key role in the profession as I never like the gun. Plus, it just doesn't make that sense that a hand-gun is our only viable weapon for single-target DPS (especially since it's handicapped by pistol range).

Unfortunately, the only weapon we have that's full-range and could be used for single-target DPS is completely broken. IMO, the proton rifle should be one of our key weapons, but in its current incarnation that's never going to happen simply because it can't fire, it's stats are too low, and the difficulty involved in obtaining it.

Ok heres the lowdown:

1) The LP is an AoE weapon

2) I think this idea has some GREAT overtones to it for commando, considering we have lots of utility in our weapons -and- grenades. Allowing us the ability to have a diminishing effect of commando damage on our weapons, to allow a CL 14 LP be around the quality of a CL50-54, and allow a CL30 HPBC be the same quality (hence the LP gets a bigger boost, and as we go up the CL chain the enhancement lessens until it barely registers so our weapons wont become overpowered), would be a GREAT asset to commando as we're utility (not intended as a toolbox, but we have lots of gadgets and gizmos to do our job), giving us the ability to make all our "utility" viable would achieve us this role.

"More damage to nonconsumables who have built in dots and effects will only create overpowered players."

Tac, you're missing the point. Our LBC and PFT both are CL 50-54 weapons, and have DoTs. Our other weapons (aside from grenades) have KD, Blind, and other effects. A form of this could, in theory, bring up all our weapons to a CL 50-54 level, and would be as balanced as the Plasma Flamethrower or Lightning Beam Cannon, allowing us to have use of all our weapons that determines our utility. The devs have said that commandos have "many utilities", we don't see that since our grenades are borked and we only have two useful weapons to a master commando.

This, however would only work with a diminishing enhancement effect...where with the same commando damage points would raise the LP by 40 levels (to CL 54), but not on the HPBC (which would only raise it by 24 combat levels, since its a CL 30 weapon). Otherwise, yes your warning would prove correct.

Its a nice idea, and it could be tied with CL directly. Advanced versions of our equipable weapons may prove to be easier to implent, but that leaves our grenades in the dust unless if the devs want to give us a mastery version of each grenade. Even then, the commando grinding up loses out, as it won't be a gradual process.

Message Edited by StarNick on 06-06-2005 10:29 PM

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StarNick wrote:
"More damage to nonconsumables who have built in dots and effects will only create overpowered players."

Tac, you're missing the point. Our LBC and PFT both are CL 50-54 weapons, and have DoTs. Our other weapons (aside from grenades) have KD, Blind, and other effects. A form of this could, in theory, bring up all our weapons to a CL 50-54 level, and would be as balanced as the Plasma Flamethrower or Lightning Beam Cannon, allowing us to have use of all our weapons that determines our utility. The devs have said that commandos have "many utilities", we don't see that since our grenades are borked and we only have two useful weapons to a master commando.

This, however would only work with a diminishing enhancement effect...where with the same commando damage points would raise the LP by 40 levels (to CL 54), but not on the HPBC (which would only raise it by 24 combat levels, since its a CL 30 weapon). Otherwise, yes your warning would prove correct.

Its a nice idea, and it could be tied with CL directly. Advanced versions of our equipable weapons may prove to be easier to implent, but that leaves our grenades in the dust unless if the devs want to give us a mastery version of each grenade. Even then, the commando grinding up loses out, as it won't be a gradual process.

Message Edited by StarNick on 06-06-2005 10:29 PM

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StarNick wrote:
Ok heres the lowdown:

1) The LP is an AoE weapon

been a while since I blasted away with one so I forgot... So I ground up to master Commando on wanderhome in the last few days.

2) I think this idea has some GREAT overtones to it for commando, considering we have lots of utility in our weapons -and- grenades. Allowing us the ability to have a diminishing effect of commando damage on our weapons, to allow a CL 14 LP be around the quality of a CL50-54, and allow a CL30 HPBC be the same quality (hence the LP gets a bigger boost, and as we go up the CL chain the enhancement lessens until it barely registers so our weapons wont become overpowered), would be a GREAT asset to commando as we're utility (not intended as a toolbox, but we have lots of gadgets and gizmos to do our job), giving us the ability to make all our "utility" viable would achieve us this role.

It was a thought I had that made lots of sense to me.. If commandos specials are weapons and every other professions scale with level why not allow commando weapons to scale as well.

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Tyyylowyspetily wrote:

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StarNick wrote:
"More damage to nonconsumables who have built in dots and effects will only create overpowered players."

Tac, you're missing the point. Our LBC and PFT both are CL 50-54 weapons, and have DoTs. Our other weapons (aside from grenades) have KD, Blind, and other effects. A form of this could, in theory, bring up all our weapons to a CL 50-54 level, and would be as balanced as the Plasma Flamethrower or Lightning Beam Cannon, allowing us to have use of all our weapons that determines our utility. The devs have said that commandos have "many utilities", we don't see that since our grenades are borked and we only have two useful weapons to a master commando.

This, however would only work with a diminishing enhancement effect...where with the same commando damage points would raise the LP by 40 levels (to CL 54), but not on the HPBC (which would only raise it by 24 combat levels, since its a CL 30 weapon). Otherwise, yes your warning would prove correct.

Its a nice idea, and it could be tied with CL directly. Advanced versions of our equipable weapons may prove to be easier to implent, but that leaves our grenades in the dust unless if the devs want to give us a mastery version of each grenade. Even then, the commando grinding up loses out, as it won't be a gradual process.

Message Edited by StarNick on 06-06-200510:29 PM

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I concur. The added benefit is with regards to availablity. I believe keeping the number of weapon types limited to their current number is neccesary to the health of the class. Weaponsmiths are already now provided a dizzying array of weapons to stock and build. Avoiding the introduction of yet another strata of the already numerous commando weapons is an important consideration. Without our weapons available, we lose access to our "special attacks". The single target craftable still to me seems an obvious choice in the particle beam cannon. It does not currently strike secondary targets, and sees little use ATM. I had suggested the addition of a "stun" state to this weapon to increase it's utility, but even as a single target heavy hitter, it will be a tool welcomed by master commandos.

Taking another look at the system itself, I still feel that weighting the scale more heavily towards master would be a good idea. Something allong the lines of 40 to 50 percent of the bonus to damage should be received at master commando, to discourage those that might otherwise grab beam weapons for example, and walk away with a near master level weapon, given the current structure as outlined. This still leaves some issues to be resolved, but could I think make a dramatic impact on the profession overall.

I actually carefully considered how this would work for damage scaling. The way I have it set up would only allow a small damage increase per column completed but would allow a small bonus for each as it completes. It would scale at almost the same rate CL would rise. To actually gain a significant damage boost from this system you would have to be already a 3/4 commando. Also since it does not affect higher level weapons the only profession to get a huge benefit from it would be the commandos themselves as everyother profession already has weapons that work and handle all their specials at the top level.

On a final note, the LP may indeed be an area of effect weapon, but I, and no doubt many commandos have a goraxed LP that I just could not bear to delete. Many may have these treasured weapons hanging on house walls currently, in sad memory of what once was. It sure would be nice to blow the dust off that pistol, and lay the smack down commando style once again.

Glad to hear some people still love their LP's ^_^

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Ackehece wrote:

One more thing ^-^

the Massassi Knuckler would get a boost from this system as well and the brawler skills would be pretty cool with it.

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Ackehece, I am really starting to like you.

Seriously, thank you very much for the show of support, and the great suggestion. I think the proposal should be balanced against frog figures rather than base crafting values to ensure things don't get out of hand, but the basis is sound and makes so much sense. I was trying to think of a way to get our "specials" scaled myself, and could kick myself for not thinking of something like this. You're a genius.