CUEmu - Thread Posts

RazerWolf

Thu Apr 22, 2004 6:38 pm

I see Commando as being versatile. Ideally, I see two unique types of Commando. The Assault Commando and Support Commando. The Assault Commando would be good solo, but wouldn't provide much to a group that couldn't be got elsewhere. He'd be excellent in PVE, with Flamer, AP-HAR, Improved-LP and stacks of Grenades able to shred pretty much anything. The Support Commando meanwhile has his Disposable Weapons and Repeating Blaster and/or E-Web as his weapons. This Commando isn't brilliant soloing, with needing to stay still and fire from prone (think LMG gunner with bipod mounted gun), but can still handle himself. He comes to the fore instead in a Battlefield Squad. Give him some direction from a Squad Leader and a couple of melee tanks, and he can lay down a hail of suppression fire.

That sounds like what the Commando profession -should- be like, to me. It's a hybrid profession, there should be more than one way of playing it. Different styles of play, with different specialties and abilities. And of course, a Master would be the perfect versatility. A simple weapon and tactic swap and you can switch from one class to another. But meh, I'm dreaming.

_________________________________________________________
Artoc Lero, Soldier - Starsider - Master Rifleman, Master Doctor - On Hiatus

Brynneth - WoW, Argent Dawn
TBC - WoW, Tichondrius

MadACR

Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:45 pm

#15

I am not a commando, Yet, but I do think I can add to this thread.

Most commandos, or special forces personnel have missions that are structured something like this.

-Gototarget in a stealthy maner

-Kill,Kidnap,Blowup,Steal, sobotage target

-Exit stealthily (sp), or quickly

For the short amount of time a commando is fighting he is able to hold of (but not completely kill) moderate sized forces, usually leaving heavy casualties with few of there own.

In essence, a commando is a versital soldier who is hard to catch, but is only able to accomplish small amounts of important task before having to withdraw. While withdrawing, heavy casualties are delt to any persuers.

what this means to the game.

-low cost, VERY accurate light area attacks while moving. (helps the withdraw processes)

-High cost, High accuracy super heavy special(s) (or surprise attack) meant for first time fire, or the initial target.

- fast movement, even with heavy equipment.

Thes guys are the ones that hit a target and get out of there before anyone knows anything. They do all the dirty work, like assassination, kidnaping, blowing heavly fortified Structures (not neccisarily the tank killers). What ever that target is, a commando (grouped or ungrouped) should be able to take it out with ease.

as a group commandos should be able to take out at most 3 targets (full group) before having to go into a withdraw mode that reeks havick on all who follow. This mode should be sustainable over a LONG period of time, but do little over all damge. In this mode, they have great defensive capability. They are hard to hit, and once again following is a gradual suicide.

downfall of any command should be getting caught in there stealth mode (no dot on radar, but a pc should be able to click directly on the person) or during the initial strike (the big assault leaves a window for shredding the commandos).

Commandos also typically have short turnarround time. So once they come out of withdraw mode (and are safe from PvE/PvP dangers) they heal quickly.

Also, stealth mode should increase melee accuaracy AND POWER. The knife is the ultimate way to kill and keep quite. switch unarmed to 1 handed is a great idea. or even add it to the list if possible. A few nice specials would be quick kill (knifing, kneck breaking), and Hide Corpse (puts the quickly killed

MadACR

Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:06 pm

#16

I am not a commando, Yet, but I do think I can add to this thread.

Commandos as special forces personnel have missions that are structured something like this.

-Gototarget in a stealthy maner

-Kill,Kidnap,Blowup,Steal, sobotage target

-Exit stealthily (sp), or quickly

If you define Commando as Special Forces than designing a skill set to meet this would work. However Special Forces units in RL have a variety of skill sets within the unit (hence they are Special).

So a commando is not a "Navy Seal" unit, although you would probably find a "Commando" type in a Seal Team.

Looking at a battle field, a command would be the person who defines where the enemy can or cannot move. I would say the commando should be a master of Bubble explosive attacks, and a few cone attacks. Every time a commando fires a heavy weapon, there should be a large BOOM, and people arround that BOOM should get hurt or killed. Every time a commando fires a small weapon, lots of little damage to a wide cone of attack should ocure. Heavy weapons should reacharge slow, but ALWAYS damage the blast area ( this means a way of firing at the ground or in a direction ). light weapons should recharge fast.

StarNick

Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:26 pm

#17

Holy Freaking Cow, TH actually said something on these desolate Dev-Foresaken boards!!!!!!!!!

--Stern Synex-- --Master Commando-- --IDI Forces----Proud Commando of 42 Months-- --Last Commando Correspondent--
We fear no enemy...we are the few, the proud, and the brave. We are, Commando!
Pyro Games

LordSeckmoth

Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:16 pm

#18

All hail the power of the sock puppet!!

Guys it's great to see us on track again in something like this.... especially since I cannot find the IC thread for Commando, probably been taken in and is being read over. I say we find out what this write-up is and run with it *for our spot of it at least hehe* and give the Devs OUR idea of what a Commando is:

So far I am seeing 2 schools

Heavy Weapons "Boomers"

Stealth Special Forces "Sneakies"

*Yes I did just nickname the 2 camps into "Boomers" and "Sneakies".... the power of the sock puppet compels you to use these titles before you post a write-up so it's easier to see where to look for overall groupings of ideas (Did that just stop making sense, bah... durned head *and yes I also said durned..... SOCK PUPPET!*)*

Esentially "Boomers" would be a much easier grouping to work with, because our profession is already set for it, but this just doesn't seem to feel Commando. Where as "Sneakies" would be a long arduous process... it feels right for us. Well, I hate to say it, but let's wait and see what is gonna be said..... and while we do, come up with a rough draft of ideas, and as a community vote on what we want to become. *If it's feasible*

MasterNerfSlayer

Fri Apr 23, 2004 5:10 am

#19

What pains me most about the Commando profession is the prevalence of the flame thrower. While it is an extraordinarily good weapon, every commando can be seen carrying one. In the visions posted above, and whenIenvision a commando, I tend to think more of heavy machine guns andlarge combat knives, ala movies Commando and Rambo.. though I'm not suggesting the commando profession go this way of course, but I hope that gives you more of a picture of what I am thinking.

RETIRED DOCTOR & MEDIC CORRESPONDENT
Imperial Colonel Kiveryn [Commando / Carbineer] Starsider [Black Epsilon]
Imperial Leiutenant Kirrilee [Dark Jedi Knight] Starsider [Imperial Inquisition]
Unlocked April 1st, 2004

RazerWolf

Fri Apr 23, 2004 5:12 am

#20

Make the current Commando into the boomer class, it's already most of the way there. Make Sneakers a completely new profession for the Space Expansion. There'd have to be so many changes to the basic Commando class to get it to a Sneaker, that the Devs may as well start from the ground up. There'd be enough of a player base to support both professions anyway.

_________________________________________________________
Artoc Lero, Soldier - Starsider - Master Rifleman, Master Doctor - On Hiatus

Brynneth - WoW, Argent Dawn
TBC - WoW, Tichondrius

shotgunjoe

Fri Apr 23, 2004 6:10 am

#21

Why cant the class be a true hybrid like it was supposed to be?

First blend the Ft and Har tree together and cut the HAR time and remove the delay from using it,slightly decrease the FT delay-theres your boomer part.

Add in some sort of heavy repeater rifle with high speed,minimal damage and very accuracy and rangeand a minimum of 2 included specials-theres your specops part.

Adjust the crafting amounts on the launchers and streamers to be more cost effective,either seriously up the damage or decrease the resources used in crafting them-theres a boomer part again.

Add in a Terrian negotiation bonusof some sort,a sort of camoflauge that hides you from rangers and turrets temporarily,add at least one unarmed and pistol move unique to commandos-there is the sneaky part

Make thrown weapons alot more accurate based onb level and increase the damage slightly,roughly 20% and also add stun,and blind grenades for a little bit of flavor.

Lastly to give it the feel that we all see as the military spec ops role holding there own with other classes on the pvp battlefield,simply add more ranged and melee defense and fix the sea's to work accordingly with heavy weapons.

I guess this might be considered a makeover,but it seems to encompass alot of what everyone is asking for.

00101000100110011101001011011111110100100010011111
00111010000011000011000110101111010011010110111000 Ekahab Shotgunnis
~~0010100000001001011000011101100000110111000011010~~1Imperial Commando
~~1101001100010001011001110100100000100000111011011~~1 Dark Warriors of Valor
~~1110011110001101100101011010010101011011001110100~~0
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wolfgang74

Fri Apr 23, 2004 7:02 am

#22

I would love to see the repeating blaster and E-web added to the commando arsenal. The E-web would really seperate us from all other proffesions. Add some specials for the LP and up the damage on disposables and I would be a happy commando.

Masen

Fri Apr 23, 2004 7:45 am

#23

Well, personally (I don't play a commando) but it always seemed to me a commando would be a scout/marksman/brawler hybrid with survival, unarmed, exploration, and master marksman. They'd be the best at hitting hard and fast, with bonuses to ALL movement, including swim speed and crawl speeds. The ability to add defenses to camps, and to 'set' traps such as landmines in places. Skills with heavy assault weapons, and a few schematics to create simple but effective single use weapons would be a must.

I never played commando in the game, but my uncle was one in Vietnam, and tells about it alot. So I got a vague idea of what a RL commando is, basically someone trained to survive in enemy territory under hostile conditions for weeks at a time. As for the big E-Web blasters and such, those should be master marksman, or a new class Heavy Weapons Specialist, that would also have bonuses with vehicle weapons when space is out, and factional emplaced weapons, such as turrets. in RL at least, commandos were (years ago anyhow) more of the elite hit and run type force. Mobile, heavily armed, and highly trained in everything from survival to demolitions and sabotage.

Of course, they'd need a total revamp for that, and alot of people are more comfortable with them being pidgeonholed into a role as the heavy weapons specialists of the game, so I'd say dump brawler totally, if you add anything for a requirement, exploration (they are mobile forces, right?) and Master Marksman. Then give them a small movement boost, to hit hard and fast, and a ton of skills with heavy weapons (grouped into ONE tree now for all 3 weapons), Explosive/thrown weapons, and emplaced weapon skills- ability to fire faster, a boost to accuracy and damage, etc.

That would have a double bonus I'd think. Because now, a commando entrenchedin a base would have access to the turret controls. Boosting the damage of turrets, making special shots such as area attacks and called shots to ATST legs and such, sweeping the ground to mow down an attacking force's legs, etc. It would make taking a base MUCH harder, and would make the commandos one of the most desired GCW classes, which makes more sense than Teras Kasi or master swordsman being the class of choice. (blasters everywhere, lasers..and a big axe is the weapon of choice? umm..no. WRONG. Watch Indiana Jones sometime. Some dude come out screaming with two swords, doing his fancy moves. Indy blinks in disbeleif, pulls out his pistol, and shoots the idiot dead. That might be a movie, but it's alot more accurate to how reality works. If they get you up close, then obviously, you're meat. But the range should be alot less (don't want to get kited by a guy with a gun? then USE ONE lol).

Anyhow, just a few thoughts on the sad, sad gcw. I don't even like pvp in general, but I adamantly refuse to participate in the state it's in. Flat out. If it was at least somewhat realistic, I'd be all for it.

No I don't have a freakin sig. Just make something up and pretend it's here man. woman. umm...Whatever.

flabajaba2213

Fri Apr 23, 2004 8:52 am

#24

Thunderheart wrote:

St Gabe has put together a great start to an analysis on combat roles and how to better define them.

Is it just me, or do people underestimate the power that is St. Gabrial? He helps out every profession in one way or another. We need to do something nice for our swordsman + correspondent.

How about some punch and pie? TH?

"Don't bother running from a commando, you'll only die tired."

_Bichiru Iwamoto - Imperial Commando_

_Huy Iwamoto - Rebel Smuggler_

gnometoes

Fri Apr 23, 2004 9:36 am

#25

This command needs to be installed for commando:

/conceal - would not hide your character but remove him from the radar until you move, you would never be hidden on the radar from people in your group.

These weapons need to be available to a commando:

Proximity Charge - explodes when overt faction members come within its proximity. This would only stay live for a specific duration of time.

Assault Rifle - Would be armor piercing with some sniping capability.

FlameThrower - Keep as is but make it so you have to "load it" with either acid or flame agent that would run out after so many flames.

Rocket Launchers Beam and all that - keep but lower the number of uses in each item to like 8 and make it extremely accurate. Time to setup and launch should be alot longer, but once setup you can fire all 8 shots if your targets are in range. Essentially 3 shots should kill a large turret but leave you extremely exposed to death from others.

Pistol - Keep the launcher pistol but give it its own tree with specials just for it. Include one other pistol type with an alternate damage type.

This would give us 4 trees: Explosives, Assault Rifle, Flame/Acid Thrower, Pistols Tree. In order to get the /conceal option you would have to be master commando.

As commando's we should be a weaponsmiths dream ... half of what we use should be items that get used up. We also need to have a wide variety of weapons an options at our disposal for combat.

Thank you Lord Seckmoth, TH Puppet, Thunderheart, Garvin and everyone else who posted to this. I think by better understanding what we are we can better understand why we have certain weaknesses and strength.

My definition for commando is simple "versatility". Of all the professions we should be the most adaptable combat profession. We should be able to fight up close and far away. We should be able to, with enough time and backup perform huge impact. A rifleman will always be better at using a rifle than us. A pistoleer will always be better at using a pistol than us. Other than that, our impact needs to be limited by "using up" our heavy hitting potent weaponry. Not to say we wont have more in our inventory, but hitting big should come at a cost credit wise and in making us vulnerable.

Enix_Dayspring

Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:11 pm

#26

garvin wrote:

What is a Commando? It should be what WE want it to be...not what other's think it should be...If popular concensus in our Community is that we want a revamp, then first we need to figure out What we weant to be, then push in that direction...

I have to take issue with this statement just a bit.

Im sure you didnt mean to say that Commando players should be anything that they (commando players) want it to be without regard to the other professons and players in SWG, but some will take it that way (I know alot of commandos in my business. hehe)

ALL professions in the game have their place in relationship with the others. The problem when you start asking players to define their own profession is that you end up with 75% of the players who are just there because its the "Flavor of the Month" profession will define their profession as "The 1 that makes m3 133t". Alot of players aren't in a profession because they necessarily like it but because it will make them the richest or most powerful

That's why we always hear weeping and gnashing of teeth whenever a nerf is proposed, because it weakens their profession (which they then change to the next Flavor of the Month).

So, here is the problem with asking the players to define their own profession, without asking what their profession should be in relationship with all others.

Not only should you ask "What cool abilities should a commando have?" or "Should Commandos be able to solo a Krayt Dragon?", but also ask "What should the weaknesses of a Commando be?" Or "What shouldn't a commando be able to do?" or "If a commando is in a group, what is his function?"

In that way, I think you begin getting people to think in more balanced terms and draw conclusions that are more probable to be implemented as well as not be nerfed later on.

Im sure you were thinking in that line anyways (Im just visiting the commando board), just thought it was a good opportunity for a reminder.

Message Edited by Enix_Dayspring on 04-23-2004 02:15 PM

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Thread: Thunderheart & Garvin What is a commando?