Commando Archive
Thread: My idea on hearing just a word of having riffleman skills work with commando!
nbd9k wrote:
garvin wrote:
Ahhh...but I never said that our flame specials would work at 64m...or that our flame specials would work on various rifles...just that their specials would work on our weapons...obviously certain specials would have to be limited to certain weapons...and penalties would still be in place for certain specials...I can't see us doing a Last Ditch with our Flame Thrower...that would probably be way to powerful and get NERF'd fairly quickly....But, a /headshot...or even the various Marksman specials working on our FT and/or our HAR would be awful nice for dealing with kiters...Our accuracy and speed would still be less then those other professions, but we'd solve our ranged issues...
My typo, didnt mean flame people at 64, meant rifle specials.
i love the idea, im just being greedy and dont want a bunch of PVPers going commando so they can have that extra edge. i always thought that the requirements for commando were a little low, and right now, im capped on my combat exp, and have been for some time. if i was some other profession, i could pull novice commando and all of the ranged tree without a second thought. raising the rrequirement for commando might slow some of those players down a bit, and keep some variety in the game.
Ahhh...but you fix the dabblers wagons who want that "edge" by spreading out those "generic" heavy weapon speed and heavy weapon accuracy mods over more then 2 trees...they'd have to make a commitment to Commando to be able to use those Commando weapons well enough...You also make Master Commando's numbers more worthwhile...that way if a Commando Dabbler challenges a Master Commando trying to outdue us with our own weapon, they get a nice lesson in pain taught to them...
Think of what a surprise PvP might be if you go into battle with a Commando and don't know whether he has Rifle skills, Pistol skills, Smuggler, etc that they'll use with the high damage of their FT...you'd have to prepare well to deal with a Commando Template option like that wouldn't you...
A commitment to master commando and making it worthwhile! Sign me up!!
garvin wrote:
Ahhh...but you fix the dabblers wagons who want that "edge" by spreading out those "generic" heavy weapon speed and heavy weapon accuracy mods over more then 2 trees...they'd have to make a commitment to Commando to be able to use those Commando weapons well enough...You also make Master Commando's numbers more worthwhile...that way if a Commando Dabbler challenges a Master Commando trying to outdue us with our own weapon, they get a nice lesson in pain taught to them..
Skeptic666 wrote:
as for wanting some terrian neg it would be so when we have to get into melee range to fire we can still run away for that 14 seconds till we can hit again and be able to actualy move on land instead of slowly trying to creep away as they knock us around for 10 seconds or what ever!
What if we just add higher Melee Def and maybe some type of Toughness to Commandos so we are capable of withstanding higher levels of Melee Damage...This wouldn't make us over powered since they'd still be able to get out of range of our heaviest weapons, they'd be faster and more accurate, and they can cause status effects (such as KD)...we'd just last longer which in turn would mean we'd be able to get more specials off then before...Why chase after them or run away if we can stand there and fire the Big Weapons...
I can tell you that Terraign Negotiation would be an impossible sell with the Programmers...the reason being that they see our weapons as "Heavy"...They see us as slow moving as well as slow firing...Therefore we are capable of gaining less scouting Terraign Negotiation then other lighter weapon professions that cost less skill points (I brought it up briefly at the Summit)...
garvin wrote:
Ahhh...but you fix the dabblers wagons who want that "edge" by spreading out those "generic" heavy weapon speed and heavy weapon accuracy mods over more then 2 trees...they'd have to make a commitment to Commando to be able to use those Commando weapons well enough...You also make Master Commando's numbers more worthwhile...that way if a Commando Dabbler challenges a Master Commando trying to outdue us with our own weapon, they get a nice lesson in pain taught to them...
Think of what a surprise PvP might be if you go into battle with a Commando and don't know whether he has Rifle skills, Pistol skills, Smuggler, etc that they'll use with the high damage of their FT...you'd have to prepare well to deal with a Commando Template option like that wouldn't you...
Honestly, i dont PVP, the times that i have never seemed fun. i prefer to solo various adventures. so this would be great for me. the thing im thinking is that they will find the combo that gives them the most power for range, and everyone will follow that template. i think the important part of this whole equation is trying to disuade those dabblers. So, yes! thats exactally what we need to do.
garvin wrote:
Skeptic666 wrote:
Hi I was reading in a thread about having riffleman skills work on the FT and HAR!
I think this is totaly a stupid idea! Please for the love of god no! this will be a big let down for meThink this way just for a moment.
Ok so now if we get rifflamen mods for our FT we would have to use even more points to go riffleman Just to get the Specials for our FT and non of the mods because the mods will work off our trees. What we need is more specials in our trees be it the same as riffleman skills. But we need them in out trees. Not basing them off there trees. Other wise we are going to have to take up a profession to make it so we are usefull then we cant take up melee skills to get some melee defenses and we will just be a super easy kill. Even more then now. I beg and plead please put specials in our tree. Lets not base our wepons off another profession.
Thank you!
Again...as I said in the other thread, I was hypothetically asking if people would rather have the range of our specials increased to 32m OR have access to outside 64m specials that would work with our weapons...there was no talk of new specials (which are the hardest and least likely thing for us to get since they involve new animations)...if we work with what is already in game we have a better chance at getting them...in otherwords...would you like 64 or 32m ranged specials, currently in game, for Commandos available in the next few months, or would you rather wait 6 to 8 months for all new specials?
Besides...we are the Weapon Masters of SWG...why shouldn't all their specials work with our weapons IF we trained in their profession? Wouldn't that make dabbling more worthwhile for a Commando? If you need a 64m ranged special to make yourself a better Commando, go and get it...
Message Edited by garvin on 09-17-2004 08:36 AM
I personally would like to see the FL use carbine specials with a 32 ideal range, and have the HAR use rifle specials. So we could use all the stuff we got at marksman and also use the other three main ranged pros. Right now, Carbine and Rifle really don't affect us at all. Only the pistol pros do. Right now we are not guarentied to get any new weapons so i say, lets makeour weapons we have now be affected.
To me, the flame thrower is not a long range weapon, its a crowd controlling bunker buster weapon. Look at all the war movies, both real and hollywood, the flame thrower didn't have a really long spray, but it took out a lot of people really fast. Like a carbine in SWG is suppose to do. I would go with 32m range for it, and a 64m range for the HAR. That would make them a little bit more worth there weight.
The rest of the HW needs to have 64m ranges, except gernades(32m for them), and almost perfect accuracy, they have splash damage, let it hit the targets. I threw 10 nades at a lair, and only one hit. Now that is just not right. And rocket launchers should have large splash areas with high damage, instead of missing over 50% of the time.
Skeptic666 wrote:
See that would be ok. But I really can't see them brining up our melee and ranged defenses up enough that it would be worth droping TKM or another melee profession to make my self a better 250 point Commando. As of now the game is a mulit player game. and in such there are guilds and freinds. Who in this war we need to PvP And right now its pretty much impossible as a master commando. And I hope after the CR we have some kind of hope. Cuz I know Commando is pretty good in PVE but that is not the only part there is to the game. Almost all professions great at PvP are great in PVE as well. SO why are we not the same.
I am sorry Garvin I love ya man and I am not randint or flaming if I seem like I am I am sorry. I have just got back into the game where it is fun again and i have alit of feelings and thoughts about commando agian. I even have re mastered commando last month.
Ya know I luv ya Skeptic...no worries...
Think about the idea this way as well...What if you are left with 2 options...one where you can enhanced your defenses via TKA/TKMbut you give up the offensive ability to get ranged specials...OR...your can enhance your offensive abilities via ranged specials, but you give up your potential Defenses by not being able to get TKA/TKM...That's where strategy comes in...what would be more important to you...what if we gave every Commando that option, the choice of whether they would rather have better ranged specials to use with thier Commando weapons or would they rather be close range tanks with higher defenses but little or no ranged specials (only Melee Range specials)...
Which template would you rather play? Or would you try to meet somewhere in the middle of the 2?
Right there we'd create Commandos with different "specialization" possibilities...Not all Commandos would look and feel the same...
Message Edited by garvin on 09-17-2004 10:04 AM
Let me lay out a few points before I give/agree with someone else's conclusion.
1: We have to Master Marksman
2: We already have 1 weapon unique to us that is able to use mods/attacks not unique to commando (The LP)
3: We have 3 main weapons (LP, FT, HAR). There are 3 types of ranged weapons.
It would seem logical to me that a commando is a soldier first (master marksman) with some special training.
WE have all the basics of fighting, this includes hand to hand.
Why is it that a commando is penalized for specializing in something else?
I suggest (as has already been suggested) that the Flamethrower by duel classed as a Special Heavy weapon/ Carbine.
The Heavy Acid RIFLE be classed as a Special heavy weapon/ Rifle, and as is already implimented, the Launcher Pistol classed as a Special Heavy Weapon/ Pistol.
This would require a little resturcturing of the trees, since the FT and the HAR hzve trees, but the LP does not.
I would like to see the HAR leave a fire dot as well.. something like acid burn, and the LP do more shock damage. This would help make the weapons more unique and valuable to the commando, and help give us to reason to be a commando besides just a different flavor of weapon.
I would suggest putting all 3 weapons into the same tree (making the single and cone attacks universal, not weapon specific, then ust give bonuses to the the LP) and devote the other 3 trees to our other Heavy weapons.
HAM cost and speed are still going to be a large factor in these weapons and specials. I am a rifleman/commando now, and if i could use my rifle specials with my HAR, it wouldn't be too far off from the DPS of the T21 or the DXR6-B, espcially with the craptacular AP of the HAR, but it would make my character more complete.
A commando/carbineer should be just as versatile between his 2 roles as a commando/ pistoleer or a commando/tkm.
By taking commando we have already made the commintment to a combat role, why not let us enhance that and make a true specialized (elite) class that fits our play style.
Downside: Commando will no longer be viewed as a stand alone class, but a true hybrid class. Just a hybrid of all combat classes instead of scout and combat like the ranger, or healing and combat like the Combat medic.
I am invisioning a new set of trees for commando
Grenades: (after fixing the problems we have with them like HAM cost and taking damage) I think we should strip all the grenade certs out of field tactics and put them in thier own tree.
Heavy support weapons: Keep it as it is.
Special heavy weapons: Combine the FT and the HAR trees. This is where we see the big change, and the one tree "dabblers" would take, this gives you certs for the FT and HAR (LP still comes at novice) and give you the burning dot specials for them.
Field Tactics: This is where you get all the defenses and heavy weapon speed from. Dabblers would be required to take this because our speed and accuracy for the FT and the HAR do not get bonuses from the rifle or carbine trees.
As you can see, this template more closely resembles those of standard elite professions.
To make it more "valuable". This would probably require grenade xp to be changes to HW xp (excpet C12 grenades).
Maybe not, thats not my job, thats what we pay SOE to figure out
.