Commando Archive
Thread: My Speculations on the state of the Combat Revamp Docs
RazerWolf wrote:
If you check the Dev tracker, you'll notice that Tiggs posted a response to that which cleared up visibility completely, as well as added a new entry to the knowledge base. If people want to know, they'll let them know.
AFTER the fact. And it wasnt Tiggs...It was JustG, after the rant-rampage about pub 10.3 ended up at about 12-14 pages....
Why wasnt that information given in the beginning? Would have averted ALOT of threads all asking the same thing.
Novock wrote:
I really believe that TH and his crew really don't feel they owe us any response and so only respond when it has the ability of hurting the checkbook.
I used to think that.
But I think what it comes down to, is these guys are absolutely LOUSY communicators.... They are LOUSY with us, they are LOUSY with each other (apparently). And they STILL haven't learned how to properly communicate with the masses...
To wit:
People kept asking about Phase 2...TH's response was: "We're not going to say....A Jedi should know patience..."
WHISKEY TANGO FOXTROT??!!!
Don't even get me started on the IGN or gamespot interview on of the head guys did after the announcement of the delay of the combat balance....
Garvin I don't hold anything against you. But if there is no revamp by December I'll be gone unless shootin things in a TIE is super fun or somethin. And I've already done the flying in Space blowing up the Death Star and Star Destroyer thing in Rogue Squadron. I'm here to play Star Wars and I ain't gonna wait months for stuff to get fixed.
Novock wrote:
I guess we will see on the stratics tonight for I assume Th will make some vague comment about it as in the past. But as we all know he won't actually say anything.
from startics chat 9/23/04
<Brekkee> *TK-231* Whats the status on the Combat Documents? Can you give us an actual view of whats happening over there?
<TH> We will be talking about the Combat Upgrade very soon. I know everyone wants the details and we are working to further develop them. We will release more information soon.
Well I'd say I called that one but I believe anyone who has spent four minutes in the forums knew that was coming.
Imador wrote:
garvin wrote:
I got the definite impression at the Summit that the Devs feel like they have "One Chance" at this to get it right...if they put out something incomplete or not fully explained, I believe they are worried that folks will completely shot down the whole Revamp and not listen further to their ideas/explainations
Maybe they should allow the group that's selected to participate in the sandbox testing to review the documents under NDA. This will give them a wider audience to review and give feedback. They will never make 100% of the user base happy, but it would go a long ways having 150 respected members of the player base to approve of the new plan before they release it to the general user group.
Imador
If I had my way...I would get the Sandbox folks up to speed first and then have them help me get the rest of you up to speed...I suggested it awhile back but didn't get a response besides the typical "Please do not release any Combat Revamp details at this time"...
I think the way the docs will be released is still being reviewed...Once I'm given the green light to discuss things, I do plan on getting into chat with all our Sandbox testers and getting them up to speed as much as I can so they can help me answer questions from you all AND so they can better help test (so they know specifically what we need to look for...
garvin wrote:
Imador wrote:
garvin wrote:I got the definite impression at the Summit that the Devs feel like they have "One Chance" at this to get it right...if they put out something incomplete or not fully explained, I believe they are worried that folks will completely shot down the whole Revamp and not listen further to their ideas/explainationsMaybe they should allow the group that's selected to participate in the sandbox testing to review the documents under NDA. This will give them a wider audience to review and give feedback. They will never make 100% of the user base happy, but it would go a long ways having 150 respected members of the player base to approve of the new plan before they release it to the general user group.ImadorIf I had my way...I would get the Sandbox folks up to speed first and then have them help me get the rest of you up to speed...I suggested it awhile back but didn't get a response besides the typical "Please do not release any Combat Revamp details at this time"...
I think the way the docs will be released is still being reviewed...Once I'm given the green light to discuss things, I do plan on getting into chat with all our Sandbox testers and getting them up to speed as much as I can so they can help me answer questions from you all AND so they can better help test (so they know specifically what we need to look for...
Damn straight. I'm itching to see the CR docs, personally.
garvin wrote:
I posted this in another thread but thought it could use it's own...again, this is only my thoughts and NOTHING confirmed...
Still no news regarding the docs...TH is rumored to be putting together some type of statement regarding the state of the docs...He has repeatedly assured us that the Revamp is still on and proceeding...Unfortunately I am in the dark currently as to why the Docs have not come out yet...But I'll try and speculate here (and this is only my speculation...no evidence of this and not based on anything the Devs have said...
The Docs we saw consisted of
- Combat Balance Guide
- CombatDoc
- Armor Doc
- HAM Doc
- A really rough draft early version doc that contained specifics on changes to Combat Professions
- One or 2 others that I can't recall off of the top of my head....
These docs were written to include Face to Face discussions on the issues contained in them, so reading them without the F2F interaction leaves a lot of holes...Each doc averaged7 to 10 pages...
Since the summit TH and the Programmers we met with at the Summit have been taking our conversations and quetions and trying to work them into the Docs, as well as tweak the docs so there aren't so many seperate ones...He has said that he wants, as much as possible, to fit into these docs as much as the F2F stuff as possible. He also wants to get that "Combat Profession Specifics" more concrete...
When I say the Combat Professions doc was a rough draft early version, I don't mean that what I saw may not happen...I mean that it wasn't complete...not all the numbers and specials were there for every box (The Commando page was the MOST complete of all the professions)...also they were still deciding where to "put" things...they know what they want in there, but not completely sure where some of the things will go...As for the actual numbers, none of them will be "Set in Stone" until they hit the Sandbox...That's where they'll get tweaked...It's going to sound silly, but I'm pushing for us to go into the Sandbox MORE powerful then we need to be...I'd rather bring us down to acceptable levels then have to fight to get us turned up...From what I saw though on the rough draft version of that Profession doc, much of it reflected the issues we have constantly stressed we needed to compete on a better level without taking us to Uber levels...it actually looked fairly well balanced, but will depend on the new damage formula and how much power our weapons will actually be capable of...The doc reflected defenses, accuracy, speed and a few new key elements...But it didn't reflect power...so that's a key thing we'll be looking to test...
Anyway...It's my guess that the rewrite of the Docs combined with completing the "Profession Specifics" is what is holding them up...Personally at this stage, I'd love to see them start releasing what they have and let us Correspondents work with our Communities to help explain things...I got the definite impression at the Summit that the Devs feel like they have "One Chance" at this to get it right...if they put out something incomplete or not fully explained, I believe they are worried that folks will completely shot down the whole Revamp and not listen further to their ideas/explainations...Look at the Recursive Macro fiasco...All the Devs said was they were considering removing Recursive Macros, all of the sudden people were blasting them when NOBODY knew what would be involved in that change or really how those changes would effect them (because they don't know HOW the devs plan on removing recursive macros or what changes they will make so that people can still do what they like to do)...Now when someone even says the word Recursive Macro people cringe...The Devs want to avoid that type of reaction...so I think they are extremely GUN SHY about the release of the docs...
Anyway...that's just my guess...hopefully TH will be posting something soon...but to be honest, and I know this is going to sound like I'm doing Dev Speak...If reaction is positive to TH's post, it may help speed up the release of the Docs (they won't worry as much about a negative reaction to them), where as if reaction is bad, they'll get more gun shy about the release and keep "polishing" them even more...
I guess we'll all just have to wait and see....
Garvin,
The problem with the Dev's releasing information is that when they do, they are so positively frustratingly VAGUE and INCOMPLETE about what the changes (proposed or effective now) are. When they release information, it is like this:
From Tiggs, in her Pub 10.3 Feedback thread: "Jedi should now be able to completely clear their visibility after 3 weeks if they don't do anything else to increase it during this time. Visibility is gained when drawing your lightsaber or using force powers for each NPC or non allied PC within range. "
OK...Drawing a lightsaber....Does this mean having it equiped? Does this mean its okay to have one in my hand, byt not ignited? Wearing robes? Having our titles up? WHAT? Then, what RANGE? If I draw my lightsaber, use powers, /forcefart, near an Imperial (since I am Imperial), does that mean it is considered NO visibility? After all, the Imperial I /forcefarted at is my ally. Or can someone in my group be an ally? OK..What is the range at which using the force (WHICH ASPECTS OF THE FORCE, MORONS????) around a non-ally or NPC puts me on the terminals? Does ANOTHER Jedi seeing you use the force, depending on faction (maybe? maybe not?), put you on the terms
You're right...The "recursive macro" thread by TH was a disaster (one of many). Why? Because it lacked information. I remember something to the effect of "Removing recursive macros, as example: to where a player will not be in a constant state of CoB" or basically trying to slow down crafters/grinders....The sentence really was as simplistic as the above. The lack of information regarding the removal (or adjustment) or recursive macros is what sent people on a rant-rampage.
The biggest single complaint I have about any announcement is this: LACK OF INFORMATION.
If the author of the thread that is giving the information would give us COMPLETE information, or complete information to the best of their knowledge, this would alleviate ALOT of 20-30 page "I hate SOE!! You guys are idiots!!! Screw you!!! I cancel!!!" threads. If they come out and say: "Recursive macro's will be removed from the system. The reasons why are: a, a, a,and a. Removing recursive macro's will affect you player in the following ways: b, b, b, andb.It is possible thatthe player can be affected in other ways by theremoval thatare not listed here. Prior toeffecting the liveservers with this change, it will be placed on Test Centerfor possible issues beforehand."
Dont even bring up the Merchant nerf....
If they dont haveall theinformation, then DONT FREAKING TELL US. Wait until you DO have all the information to inform the players/testers. Then test it. Then put it live. Its not that hard.