Commando Archive
Thread: Should the HAR be AP2? Maths inside. Please vote. (Necro, still unfortunately valid.)
stormtrooperCain
Fri Feb 13, 2004 11:46 am
#14
Great we nerfed HAR didnt fixed,my dot hit 5-600 dmg per tick, before the patch it was 3-4k dmg, so why the ppl want to become a commando?the LP didnt get any special, HAR broken FT nerfed granade sux.Thx .soe you know how to fustrate ppl.
Caspar
master commando
Starsider
DarkNexus1014
Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:40 pm
#15
I like your idea RazerWolf. Thearmor piercing makes a lot of sense, since that isthe general effect of acid.The numbers seem right tome, and very balanced. I actually think thatthe devs had originally planned to put AP on the HAR, but they rushedthrough it due their deadlines (that would also explainwhy the cert didn't work, and thebonuses don't stack.) I also think that the HAR should be a longer ranged weapon than our flamethrower, you know? Or if not, make our consumables a bit better, so we can deal with the kiters!
By the way, I don't mind the lower damage on the HAR, I just wish it was faster. Instead of 330-720 with 5.2 speed average, it would be nice if it were 300-700, 4.2 speed. That's not that overpowered either, I've seen tons of non-sliced weapons forthe Eliteprofessionsthat were every bit as good as that, and we are a hybrid 
I've seen the AP idea on a lot of threads, and we don't even have proof that the devs (or anyone who can influence their decisions) have been reading them. So, nice try, and thanks for providing the math, but I don't see anything changing in the near future. There are too many other people who just have louder voices than ours.
DarkNexus1014
Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:43 pm
#16
By the way, I will have to say that when I decided to play a Commando before SWG even came out, I wanted to use the Heavy Acid Rifle over the flamethrower, simply because it sounded cooler to me. Here's to hoping thatwemight still getthe chance to use the HAR the way it was meant to be used: effectively!
Tal-N
Sat Feb 14, 2004 8:38 am
#17
You forgot to include damage mitigation andthe various 'toughness' stats for melee professions. You should find that you can't 'one-shot' them because of their various defences.
Yrega
Sat Feb 14, 2004 9:15 am
#18
Well as it stands, I average around 2400 per shot on an unarmored target and around 500 on an armored target, so the numbers seem right. I dont really mind the burn decrease, though I DO MIND IT because we have no alternative. As it is I still average about 300 points per tick on burn, which is horrible compared to the previous 1k pvp burn.
Now I am forced to rely on my TKA specials to win a fight, but perhaps thats what the devs were trying to do? Who knows because they don't talk to us.
Things I would like to see happen.
- HAR mods stacked
- HAR given AP2
- make the burn be based on the combat spam and not the actual damage (not sure if it is already but i doubt it)
- Give us a long range weapon like an assault rifle, WITH SPECIALS and get rid of that damn pistol.
- Give us defensive mods vs posture change and knockdown
All of these things ARE EQUALLY as important, If these changes are not made, the commando profession will become a tinker toy, instead of the "Battlefield Controlling" profession it was MEANT to be. Even the devs stated that we, along with Bounty Hunters were supposed to be THE MOST POWERFUL FIGHTING PROFESSIONS IN THE GAME (tka as well but they werent mentioned).
Well I shall see you in the field of war.
-Yrega Darkstrider
Master Commando / Teras Kasi Master
PeeMonkey
Sat Feb 14, 2004 4:37 pm
#20
Just a question, am I correct in assuming that an AP0 weapon against an AR1 target gets a 50% damage reduction? (And I believe an AP1 weapon against AR0 gets a 25% damage increase).
So the AP0 flamethrower should have its damage reducuces bu 50% against an AP1 target, before resists are applied (not that the order matters, math-wise).
Is this how the numbers above were calculated?
RazerWolf
Sat Feb 14, 2004 4:49 pm
#23
You are correct in everything. I included all the relevant details of the AR/AP multipliers in case anyone wanted to check my maths.
Tal-N
Sat Feb 14, 2004 6:00 pm
#24
We don't need any more AP weapons, we have disposable ones which are as potent as AP3 and the far cheaper and more cost effective grenades which are as follows.
Fragmentation Grenade: Blast, AP1
Cryoban Grenade: Cold Damage. AP1
Glop Grenade: Acid Damage. AP0
Imperial Detonator: Blast Damage. AP1
Thermal Detonator: Blast Damage. AP2
Proton Grenade: Heat Damage, Ap1
Cryoban Grenade: Cold Damage. AP1
Glop Grenade: Acid Damage. AP0
Imperial Detonator: Blast Damage. AP1
Thermal Detonator: Blast Damage. AP2
Proton Grenade: Heat Damage, Ap1
All things considered we don't have any problems dealing with armored enemies and players, the problem is that because accuracy on some of these weapons and their effective ranged are so poor that no one uses them. This leads to everyone wanting the working and partly-working weapons to be strong and stronger. The HAR doesn't need any AP qualtiies, it's acid damage anyway. What we need is the grenades fixed.
Raptor2k1
Sat Feb 14, 2004 6:05 pm
#25
Don't forget the cost and time required to make them being a serious limiting factor to their use. IMO AP 2 on the HAR would only really be a hot-fix more than anything else, but it would be a logical one. Remember, the HAR is the only acid weapon in-game that doesn't have any AP on it (not to mention that you'd think it would have at lesat equal AP ability when compared to the new Rifleman acid rifle in the Geoosian dungeon.)
RazerWolf
Sat Feb 14, 2004 6:44 pm
#26
The fact that the HAR does acid damage is useless unless you're facing creatures with high heat resists. Without any AP, the HAR would be absolutely and totally useless in PVP, even with all the mods fixed, as there is no armour that I can think of which has heat but not acid protection. As for Disposables having AP, fair enough, except that I have physically NEVER actually hit anyone with a disposable in PVP.
Anyway, making the HAR AP2 would mean that the HAR and FT are approximately equal in terms of overall across-the-board damage output, each having advantages over the other in certain areas. Currently, the only area I can think the HAR would be useful would be vs Rancors and Rhoa Kwis, or some of the high-level MOBs on Endor, whereas the FT is better in every other circumstance.
Edit: Oops, missed Raptor2k1's post.
Yes, I agree. I just want AP2 for something to make the gun work until the possibility of a full revamp. And yes, if the Riflemen get an AP2 Acid Rifle, why the hell not us?
Anyway, making the HAR AP2 would mean that the HAR and FT are approximately equal in terms of overall across-the-board damage output, each having advantages over the other in certain areas. Currently, the only area I can think the HAR would be useful would be vs Rancors and Rhoa Kwis, or some of the high-level MOBs on Endor, whereas the FT is better in every other circumstance.
Edit: Oops, missed Raptor2k1's post.
Yes, I agree. I just want AP2 for something to make the gun work until the possibility of a full revamp. And yes, if the Riflemen get an AP2 Acid Rifle, why the hell not us?
Message Edited by RazerWolf on 02-15-2004 01:46 AM