Commando Archive

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HarrisMoD wrote:

Also since 90% of commandos think the HAR is useless it can't be used as an argument to rebut my statement. And I never see anyone use Heavy Weapons only to Fight. Flamethrower is basicly our only weapon that the 2.5X modifer effects. All other weapons are inferior and need to be fixed. RL ect are Support weapons and should not be used in solo efforts unless as a last resort or from a safe distance.

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You should come to Lowca, granted I only use them in PvP (PvE is way too hard to gauge when/if I'll get a hitfrom a monster that is being kited or not standing atthe Ideal range) when people are stupid enough to stand still, thus allowing me to "snipe" them with a PBC, but it is almost too expensive to just use our Heavy Weapons, If there were more reasonably priced, then I'd say a lot more people would use them in PvE. All we'd need is one that could do some darn Cold damage and we'd be set for the majority of damage types.

I'd also like to say that this is a great post and I highly doubt that HarrisMoD was trying to flame anyone or anything, just putting his thoughts to the table(albeit it's kinda moot now that they are dumping it)

Well, it really bugs me to see people throwing strategy as using another skill to fight. Example pets, Having TK (which currently Im using both) pistoleer, or any other profession to where you just use the pets to take damage or just hit the enemy with a flame special then fall back on another skill to survive the fight. Why invest all these skill pool points to only have use for flame single and flame cone? Strategy should be just merely how you play not what skills you got and how powerful skills actually are per individual skill should depend on what youve invested in the skills by way of skill pool points.

Seriously, with the damage mod Im using GSPs to tank for me and without them I die fast and I hate the fact that I depend on anything. I've been grinding on torturs and such and I came across some mottled wrixes which werent bad at all but have you ever shot a grand wrix with the flame? You get no XP since they are 100% resist to heat even though they burn to death. So without my pet I just managed to piss em off rather than soften them up befor they close and with the pack mentality there is no hope. Torturs will take damage from the regular shot but still, they make short work of me without a pet.

You may say to use the launch pistol once I got my flame single off but Im not a pistoleer nor should I have to be to be able to take on the things I fight. Havent I spent enough skill pool points on requirements than alone to tack on an extra?

Congratulations to you for taking down the things you talk about but I'd love to see how you do it. I got ubese armor on that I managed to piece together as I found diferent pieces whcih I thought I was incredibly lucky to find which has a special protection to kinetic 76% but I still about go down in 2 hits from a tortur and Im almost doen with flame 4 so I'll have flame single 2 so maybe you take em out befor they get those 2 hits but we cannot forget about the guys down here just starting off. I see your point about befor the damage mod how powerful we were but I only got to experience that through flame 1 and trust me, coming from a guy trying to raise from flame 1 to flame 4 during this with only one bonus to speed and acuracy it has been more than a pain.

In short, was I overpowered considering I was more powerful at novice befor mod than what I am at flame 4? Sure, I used to get about 50k XP per trip of 2 missions and now I have to use pets and I come back with 24k XP. But do I think the damage mod is good for any class? Hell no! Not a good way at all. We already have lower melee and ranged defense compared to other classes and no bonuses to block or dodge like other classes have and whatever extra skills we take up for defenses, is not strategy if it is mute point based on the weapon we have in our hands. The mitigation I think is going to be a much better answer.

2.5X mod isn't that big of a concern as it used to be, i must say that..but it should not be totally written off

i agree with the poster who mentioned that before 2.5X mod, we also did 2.5X dmg on most proffessions, and as he said we weren't really overpowered in that sense

and harris,

there is a reason to have your FT equiped at 10 m...ever look at range modifiers? the FT still has a better range mod than ideal and 64 m, at 0 m...so closer IS better in accuracy

and 10 m doesnt matter, we must be within *melee range*, which at its max is around 18 (lunge attacks only) but even creatures that just do basic attacks can still hit at your bare min for range on specials...16 m

and most creatures can outrun us...

and there are many creatures that can hit pretty fast..and with 2.5X mod..incap us in a few hits...

for an example: The Torton

for being a large creature, the torton is very fast. Without FT equiped it does around 180-200 dmg...with Ft equiped it does around 450-500 dmg...in just 2 good hits you can get incapped while shooting your FT (not to mention lag). however, since the torton is very vulnerable to fire..it usually takes two very well placed flame single 2's to kill one. However, lets say you apply dot and dont miss, then you unequip to your LP or fwg5...the thing is going to kill you anyways, since with your LP/Fwg5 you get a point blank penality since its fast enough to always get on you + the fact that you won't do the damage required to take the torton down before he takes you down

and dont even try and equip your FT while trying to outmanuaver a torton after cool down..you're going to just get hit before you could even fire

-this can be applied to MANY 4-6k ham creatures...which are many of the creatures that commandos normally fight against-

tactics or no tactics, 2.5X just doesn't make sense - Heavy weapons are NOT rifles

in my opinion just take the 2.5X mod but dont give us any damage modifiers against other weapons, plain and simple - and from what was heard a while ago, all the dmg modifiers are being replaced

and the final word: i dont consider us in unarmed a tank..we are far from one

Commandos Are not overpowered at all.

Master Commando

Fencer 1 0 0 1

Medic 4 0 4 0 - I only use this to heal between fights. So it's not much of a Addition since I could just wait.

I have a set of Ubese with 50% kenetic (There are better forms out there)and a set of Bone 43% energy.

I do not use a pet.

What can I do with these skills.

I can solo three Grauls At the same time.

I can solo an Entire Base of IMPs (The factional Base near Bela Vistal)

I can solo the entire narglatch cave north of moenia.

I can solo Force Senitive NPC's on Dantooine.

I can solo an AT-ST.

I can solo Kilomangas on Lok.

I am not much of a PVPer but when I do I tend to lose.

Granted I have a little higher Dodge and Melee defense from the fencer but having a 70%+ set of ubese would offset this.

Now imagine what I could do without the 2.5X modifier. Nothing more since I never take a melee hit with a Flamethrower or HAR equipped.

Also since 90% of commandos think the HAR is useless it can't be used as an argument to rebut my statement. And I never see anyone use Heavy Weapons only to Fight. Flamethrower is basicly our only weapon that the 2.5X modifer effects. All other weapons are inferior and need to be fixed. RL ect are Support weapons and should not be used in solo efforts unless as a last resort or from a safe distance.

Garvin- you make a good point. That said, unless you don't plan on spending all your skill points, EVERY profession, even if mastered, will have a support profession.

Now, maybe you like to craft in your spare time, so you only have one combat profession. Ok. If you are standing around after you've laid your flame with your flamerthrower out in PvE, yes, you are going to die. If you switch to unarmed or launcher pistol, you should be fine. I have no need to use a pet to be nearly invincible in PvE. Someone mentioned torturs. Easy as pie.

The key question is "why?". The answer is the DoT doesn't get hit by resistences. We are overpowered in PvE. Period(or to be more accurate, our flame line is overpowered, the rest of our lines being complete and brokencrap).If you (not specifically you Garvin)don't find PvE to be fairly easy, then perhaps your tactics need rethinking. The 2.5 mod is the only thing that keeps me on my toes- otherwise its a burn fest.

Again, just one man's opinion.

Zedar, Commando, Bloodfin

"tactics or no tactics, 2.5X just doesn't make sense - Heavy weapons are NOT rifles"- starnick.

Thats right. They are even bigger and more bulky. 3.0x mod maybe? I'm game!

Zedar

Anyone who has been a commando before the 2.5 mod knows we were overpowered at that point.

But at that time we did the 2.5x bonus damage to other Ranged fighters...that's why we were so overpowered...We weren't overkilling everyone, just other ranged fighters...and that's why we pushed so hard for change...We wanted to make sure we didn't do the 2.5 mod to ranged players, but didn't expect to be lumped in with them. The dev's made a clear mistake. Instead of putting us either ina Melee Class or a Ranged Class, they should have created a 3rd alternate of a Class for just us...Ranged Fighters who fight at Melee Range...i.e. we don't do the 2.5 mod, but also don't fall victim to it...or a mod of a smaller amount....

Once again Garvin nails it. It was the genenal good nature and unselfishness of the majority of those who call themselves "commando" that got us in the mess we have found ourselves in concerning the 2.5x mod. We really found that it was unfair that we were doing such damage to ranged combatants like the riflemen.When the devs listened to us and put the "fix" in by giving us the same damage mod to resolve the ranged damage issue we were shocked andknew a mistake had been made.A mistake that was obvious to everyone but the devs at first.

Now if you Master you get some nice bumps to defence and accuracy but we still suffer from 3/4 of our tactics, and weaponsbeing either broken entirely or are so nerfed as to be ineffective. I have actually put my LP down in favor of the new Republic Blaster. Perhaps as time goes by and reasonable people continue to offer positive discussions and suggestions the devs will take the time to revisit the commando and give us the tools to actually support our "reputation" as a combat expert class.

Now, maybe you like to craft in your spare time, so you only have one combat profession. Ok. If you are standing around after you've laid your flame with your flamerthrower out in PvE, yes, you are going to die. If you switch to unarmed or launcher pistol, you should be fine. I have no need to use a pet to be nearly invincible in PvE. Someone mentioned torturs. Easy as pie.

Interesting arguement...but I think there might be some holes...as far as I know the 2.5 mod effects all ranged classes...so if you equip the Launcher Pistol you are still privy to it...not if you saying you could equip the LP and kite until the flame dot does it damage...that true...but so could a Pistoleer with a bleed...and they never have to get as close as we do to place a DOT....our DOT should do more damage quicker because we take more of a chance to place it.

Last night I got incapped...didn't die, but got incapped...I was fighting to Fambaas...I put a flame Dot on one, but by the time I tried to get one on the other, I was incapped....the delay prevented me from getting my DOT on...Other classes with DOTs in many cases would not have suffered such a delay and could have placed their DOT from a distance out of Melee Damage range, then just kited until Damage was done enough to move in...Sure, I could probably have avoided being incapped through several means...having a pet....better armor...unequiping my FT and going unarmed using my TKA skills (no 2.5 mod)....but before I could do any of that I still have to wait for the 30 sec delay to end...

What I'm getting at is if you take your statement above, change the words "flame" and "flamethrower" to "bleed" and "pistol" it would work in another profession...Do I think Pistoleers are over powered because the same arguement could be used in the same way...nope...They are in the same boat we are...often being accused of being over powered because of secondary skills...

Next time you are on, go take out a Fambaa nest with only your FT and your LP...heck, even use some grenades if you want...a RL too if the need arises...you'll probably get a few of them...but do you think you'll end up incapped? If you get incapped then we are not overpowered...And no use of secondary profession skills...no healthshot...no low blow...not TKA...and NO PETS....

Invincible means nothing can kill you...are you saying that as a Commando and a Commando only, that there is nothing in this game that can beat you? Nothing incapps you? I have yet to see any Commando be truely "Invincible"...something or someone out there can always "own them" on any given day with the right strategy and many times, just the right bit of luck at the right time...

There is a 2x mod for carbine and a 1.5x mod for pistol I believe. I dont think there should be for anyone, its just a poor way of balance wheter overpowered or not.

Garvin has got the right idea IMO. We are talking about just commandos, not commando/CH or commando/pistoleer or commando/TKA. Last I checked I didnt instantly become a TKM as soon as I became a commando and no commando is not the only combat profession Im taking, actually I'll be dabling the crap out of a lot of professions when done.

Only 2 weeks after I got commando they put that mod in and it realy put a hault to my xp gain. I was kiting war grondas for 2500 xp a pop with a flamethrower that I had custom made for accuracy tehn suddenly they started easily catching me. So I started after humbabas, which are a lot like falumpasets, because I used to be able to go toe to toe with one and win with no problem. Suddenly they were packing and thats when I realized I was taking more damage, a lot more. And thats when I came here to the forums for the first time to find out about the mod.

I dunno, maybe to you guys that had made it and had at least a majority of commando and a good start of another profession it wasnt so bad, but for guys like me that were just starting out, I'm amazed I stuck with it, infact, some other guys that I would talk to and used to train me dropped it. I about crapped when I saw that the master commando I knew was suddenly flyng the MCH flag over his head. Forced to use rock beatles, he took CH further.

Anyway, lets just keep commando in mind here and just commando.

The strength of the commando profession at this point lies all within our DoT. If you land that, and I think you can in almost any situation, then the fight is over. Once they have resistances counting against the DoT, I'll be plenty pissed if the other lines in our profession aren't fixed by then.

Thanks for the explaination....I had a strong feeling I understood your rational regarding being invincible...I do get that feeling, especially lately with the extra TKA skills / defenses...I've been able take out scores of creatures I never could before (or had to use a pet)...And yes, one thing I often do is hit a Flame DOT, then quickly switch to my VKs and unarm fight it the rest of the way...The flame DOT does make sure I can take down big game that I probably wouldn't be able to without it...but that's the benefit of being a Commando I guess...Before being a Commando I used the same strategy as a Pistoleer.

Is the Flame Thrower and more specifically the Flame DOT to powerful? Well...I know we haven't been nerf'd yet...last night, as I mentioned previously, I was incapp'd by a fambaa...While down, my Dot killed a Fambaa...so the "stop at 1" issue is not in effect yet...But on that same note, I took on an Ancient Nightsister the other day...I stacked on her 3 Flame Dots...and all 3 expired before killing her...So DOTs have time limits (or damage limits) like all other DOTs...if there as an easy way to put out a DOT...and when fire resistences come into play I don't think they're will be any arguement about the Flame DOT...We should be butt kicking when it comes to non-fire resistent critters...we should rule over them is possible...It's our given advantage of our profession and one of the reasons people take our Profession...Just like if you want to attack player's mind pools, go for BH's Mind Shot...

So no...I still don't think we are over-powered...partly due to what we experience now as Commando's and partly to what we know is coming...And what is coming will force Commando's not to be one-trick ponies...we will be forced to rely on something more then DOT and Dash...My strategy will still be DOT and hopefully get in close enough to do some unarmed damage...or if at a distance, use the Flame Thrower without specials....some people seem to forget that it's still a good weapon without specials...sure spd is very high (my best is 3.8 I think), but the damage is decent.

Plus Mitigation is hopefully just around the corner...and if the legend is true, it's going to be a whole new ball game with it comes to damage placement.

Garvin- again good points. "Invincible" was used to express in one word "very hard to get beaten in PvE against most creatures, but certainly not all in circumstances". Exaggerating to make a point. I got incapped fighting a foaming vynock on Talus once while not paying close attention and getting cocky.

I'll try fambaa's- haven't killed one in ages.

As far as 2.5 melee mod and pistols (are you sure its against pistols and carbines?)- i admittedly don't go to LP that much when attacked close range, and instead use unarmed 4 (our prerequiste). That alone gives you bonuses to toughness, thereby reducing your melee damage. It is a part and parcel of Commando and i do not consider itout of the profession.

As far as the delay on specials, flamesingle2 is like 7 seconds. You should be able to last 7 seconds from one flame to the next by switching to unarmed in between before laying another flamesingle2 down. Also flamecone1 while running away. Nothing special about that- it can hit a whole chasing mob.

The strength of the commando profession at this point lies all within our DoT. If you land that, and I think you can in almost any situation, then the fight is over. Once they have resistances counting against the DoT, I'll be plenty pissed if the other lines in our profession aren't fixed by then.

Zedar