Commando Archive
Thread: Challenge to Commando's
FURY_Chaser wrote:
Send Pet in ( Rock beetle ) to attack the lair
How did I see this one coming? Commandos, yet another class now COMPLETELY dependant on pets. Not everyone is of the opinion that a pet should be required to fight everything. Yes, of course the 2.5x modifier won't matter if you rely on a beetle to take the damage. But every class should be more or less capable of killing what cons white to them with equal capacity. Using a rock beetle to shatter the color con curve and negate the entire damage penalty in the first place is a weak crutch for your argument proclaiming the modifier acceptable. Why? Because you're negating the issue, not dealing with it. Let's say that there was a 100x melee mod on heavy weapons. Your rock beetle would still negate it, but does that make it any more of a legitimate modifier? no.
FURY_Chaser wrote:
ok let me get this straight:
running to whatever you are running to a spawn of kreetles attacks you as it loads right on top of you. you should one shot krettles with your FT every 2 seconds with good accuracy since they are close.
Kreetle damage guessing around 40
40x2.5= 100
50% armour reduction for AP0 (kreetle)to AR1 (Composite)rating thats so we are down to 50 damage
47% kinetic resist to 50 damage = 26 damage
thats 26 damage every 2 seconds
so say you have 1k ham that would take 39 hits to take you down IF they attack only one HAM bar. but 5 were attacking me ok so that would take 8 hits for each of the kreetles to one specific HAM bar. That is 16 seconds
16 seconds to take down 5 kreetles that gives you 8 shots with one hit kills and allows 3 misses as well.
Math just doesnt seem to add up to me, explain to me how they are killing you?
OK the main problemI see here is, not everyoneis going to havea full suit of Composite armor. Now thatcould beeither by choice or economics (lack of credits) or both.
But I did a little test the other day, with taking level 11 and 12 faction missions and using a standard unsliced Laser Carbine and a standard unsliced Flame Thrower, andI used no pets.Plus I'll sit about 48 to 52 meters from my first target before firing. Now I'm only using the Full Auto 2 special for carbine and the Overcharged Shot 2 for the Flame Thrower. With the Carbine out of a total of 22 specials used I only miss an average of 2 or 3 times total on three different targets. Now with the Flame Thrower equipped (I have Flame 2 right now andwhen I hit the Imperial Cadets it only takes two over charged shots to take them down) but out of 15 overcharge shot 2 specials I missed 9 times. And some are at point blank with the target and myself fairly much stationary.So basically at least 3/5 ths of the shots I take with a flame thrower are wasted. Now granted I understand I have the carbine accuracy modifiers. But coming into a Elite Profession and missing targets more than what i did on my first night of playing with a CDEF Pistol isn't what I imagined this profession would be at.
So while you may bring up good points, not all situations are going to be the same.
2nd - according to your post - you aren't tanking, your pet is
3rd - I challenge you without your pet and without your buffs to take a lvl 20+ higher mission and let me know how well you succeed.
Or, better yet, go to the warren. Let me know how it turns out.
Oh, I know, I can tell you. You'll die faster than you can even get one heal off.
I died so fast people were downright amazed.
Yeah, wearing full armor with 61% kinetic resists. Didn't matter.
Hurtons ate me up like a new chew toy.
The ONLY TACTIC for commando is NOT to MELEE.
This means no tanking. Period.
Any melee = death. Plain and simple.
Oh, unless of course you are a dabbler who can buff themselves.
Some of us aren't, and more to the point, can't.
When they fix pets you'll be eating your words unless you intend to group and never get aggro. What if your rock beetle started taking 2.5x dmg as well? I have nothing against dabblers, I am one, but the die hard people who refuse to jump on the pet bandwagon have a point. You act like they all should be wearing 50%+ composite full time, that would assume they had the medic skills to offset the lousy regen you get from wearing composite or chitin. Your thread could have been constructive and told them about your template and how it helped you work around the dmg modifier. Instead it was more "Neener, neener! Look at me I'm a dabbler and don't have any problem." Everyone knows you can dabble around the modifier, the point is why should they have to give up master commando, get a pet, get medic skills that are going to be nerfed soon as well. Maybe you could stop to think that maybe some people don't want to spend their 250 points all on combat. Get your head out of your ass and think before you post.
Mere
So let me sum up here:
you want to be able to solo yellow con, aggro, pack MOBs, without the use of armour, without the use of Buffs, or Pets?
is that about it, cause that is what I am gathering. I didnt want to start a huge argument I wanted to DISCUSS how we can get around the 2.5x damage, but it seems you all are too close minded, and/or just not willing to adjust to what you need to.
If there was no need for buffs why are they in game, in 4 different varieties?
If there was no need for armour, why did they not increase HAM with lvls?
If there was no need for tanks, why doesnt every proffesion have toughness against melee?
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Name some mobs you could kill, pre-patch with no armour, no buffs, and no pets that you cannot now post-patch?
"Name some mobs you could kill, pre-patch with no armour, no buffs, and no pets that you cannot now post-patch"
Easy.
Tortur Bulls
Baz Nitch (not giants, normal baz)
Macklocks
to name a few.
Of course, this is without resorting to using a loser pet to tank for you and without resorting to using certain well known exploitsnor using commando expendable weapons.
simply put, our ONLY special attack IS in melee range. all mobs HAVE 19m melee range (lunge) and do run faster than you (and in burst run case, they WARP into melee range as you burstrun away). To close in to pull the special attack means we get hit 2 times before we can start running (1st hit is INSTANT after you attack, 2nd comes as you begin to run away)... at this point at least half or 3/4ths of your ham bar is GONE. Now you must run/wait the 6 to 15 second (depending on FT skill and spd) cooldown... and unless you plan to always solo via burstrun->flamerattack->run you wont be able to kill anything bigger than 5 to 8k ham every 5 minutes (burstrun 'you are no longer tired' timer..i think its around 3 to 5 minutes). So you going to solo a nest of 4 creatures per pop, 3 pops per nest.. thats 12X5 mins..every hour? Woot! a 6k mission every hour thats AWESOME right?
And of course, thats if the creature doesnt lag-warp into 5m behind you when you left 50m behind when you ran away or if the creature isnt social.. in which case you will get two or three of the things hitting you and killing you in one combat round.
So yeah, you can go buy your superexpensive armor and get the rock beetle to tank for you. Im sure SOE's vision of the commando is that you have to be MF'ing rich to be able to take on a low level nest and make everyone have a cockroach be more important than a player.
Meredragon wrote:
Fury,
When they fix pets you'll be eating your words unless you intend to group and never get aggro. What if your rock beetle started taking 2.5x dmg as well? I have nothing against dabblers, I am one, but the die hard people who refuse to jump on the pet bandwagon have a point. You act like they all should be wearing 50%+ composite full time, that would assume they had the medic skills to offset the lousy regen you get from wearing composite or chitin. Your thread could have been constructive and told them about your template and how it helped you work around the dmg modifier. Instead it was more "Neener, neener! Look at me I'm a dabbler and don't have any problem." Everyone knows you can dabble around the modifier, the point is why should they have to give up master commando, get a pet, get medic skills that are going to be nerfed soon as well. Maybe you could stop to think that maybe some people don't want to spend their 250 points all on combat. Get your head out of your ass and think before you post.
Mere
How was my initial post neener neener?
I posted how I do my missions, ask how others are doing thiers, explained what my template was.Trying to Help ( OMG what was I thinking? ) and possibly test ( Again what was I thinking ).
So far there has been one person saying he gets killed by green cons : I posted a way around thatwith stats mathmatics and basic common sense.
One other post saying he gets killed byGreater desert womps: Ill break it down for him too
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150x2.5= 375
375/2= 188
188x50% =94
So solo with no pets no buffs just with armour, it would take a greater desert womp rat10 hits IF ithit the same HAM pool on each hit, and you didnt heal yourself once.
thats 20 seconds, and you have a 800-1200 hit every 2 seconds with normal hit. total of 12000 points if you dont miss. add a flamesingle2 in the mix 3k damage delay of 6 seconds +DoT damage + 2 attacks more with FT normal hits.
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man ones agen u dont read helo i dint sayyelwo mobs or red mobs u i sed low lvl mobs like blue heloand as for soloing red mobs i can solo gernald rancors with tk not using any commandos specils or weps and like i sed i ant master tk and i no that pistolers can to if they use there heds and carbines can to and thees r all low lvl classes helo think but when a commando tryes to kill a rancor he gets this one hit kill crap helo id there any thing up there in that brein of urs helo were elit proesion not low lvl saport profesion snd r specilty is sapos to be taking out giant mobs think r u there at all or u just spout out any thing that comes to mind for a commando to have to wory about being incaped with 61-81% camparmor and shild gens befor a novic marks men dos is just donw right messed up
plzs pardon my spelling and greamer ... how many lagegs do u speak ....o just one go figuer lol and u laugh at me haha
First off, it's still kind of insulting to the Devs to say that Commandos are "broken" again like before. To the guy who said that obviously didn't play before. Any modern long time commando can atest to this, commandos are still alot better off than they were then..
Second of all, I think it's great that you guys flame a guy who can still get by. He reports that he is doing just as good as before and enlightens you all about how he does it and you complain "Oh another, send your pet in post". This guy only has 250 skill points like the rest of you and he is using them on Doctor/Commando (which is very possible, a 0434 Doc and 0040 Commando has great potential I feel depending on what you want to do). He uses a rock beetle and armor to help alleviate the 2.5* penalty and what's wrong with that? Pets ARE overpowered and he's using that to his advantage; all you bandwagon commandos should be familar with using something wrongfully overpowered "swinging" your flamethrowers around. Chaser can't very well come on here and say "For those who don't use pets or armor, here's how to get XP" or "If you're Commando/Entertainer/Merchant here's an easy way to XP". If you happen to be a Commando/Doc then take his advice if you like but because he recommends strategys that include his other skill points (or non skills, like the pet tank that anyone can use) don't flame the guy.
Third of all, this might be where the unarmed of commando starts to help. Unarmed suffers no penalties from dmg, in fact it is reduced. A commando/TKA build could hit hard with good defense (good luck to anyone who takes the time to make a guide, since you'll get flamed by that Commando/Musician out there who couldn't possibly take another profession or has a problem with pets for some reason).
So thanks for the info Chaser, good to see someone is still getting by. And good luck to anyone else who found his information useless, I hope your "Anti-rock beetle, Anti-armor, no strategy, Commando/Musician/Artisan guide" to personally fit your tastes
So thanks for the info Chaser, good to see someone is still getting by. And good luck to anyone else who found his information useless, I hope your "Anti-rock beetle, Anti-armor, no strategy, Commando/Musician/Artisan guide" --comes in-- to personally fit your tastes
Sorry about that, I've been awake for awhile
Anyway I'm rambling. If you want to understand what is going on and what the big problem is for people who want master commando as their primary spec you should try the following and see what it's like for them to play after the change:
Do one of the normal missions without a pet, in full armor. Do not unequip your flamethrower throughout the battle, no heals, no buffs. Keep your armor on after the fight, this is in keeping with you not seeming to understand why people sometimes wear no armor, no post battle heals either, that's cheating =) Try some variations, try it without armor. If you live through say a grand wrix mission, bol mission, pickit mission, bantha matriarch mission or the like then what can i say you are more skilled than 95% of the master commandos in the game. Before you ask me why you shouldn't use all your skills for this i'll answer you. This is how a Master commando/artisan/entertainer would have to do his missions. If you can still say that the melee modifier is still reasonable after doing this then it is you who have a closed mind.
To answer your question I really haven't been caught without my pet since the patch, the couple of times I have been, the culprit was one mottled wrix, a couple of the higher level meatlumps on corelia all i can think of right now. They were all dark blue cons, would have died within 2 ticks of the flame dot.
BTW thank you for modifying your tone in your last post, that first post just set me off.
Mere