Commando Archive
Thread: 2nd Generation Weapons? Your thoughts.
Lucius, what garvin is saying is instead of having 3 Flame Single's, have one special that improves as you level up. That way, instead of having two specials (Flame1 & Flame2) that you'll never use again once hitting master, just have one special. At novice, that special is = Flame1, as you progress it improves to Flame2, and when you finally hit Master it would be equivalent to a Flame3. Also, this should help with professions where a lower level special is better than a higher special. Take for instance pistolmeleedefense in pistoleer; pistolmeleedefense1 has a low HAM cost and includes a KD. On the other hand, pistolmeleedefense2 has a higher HAM cost and no KD. No pistoleer in their right minduses pistolmeleedefense2. With this change, instead of having one useless and one usefull special, pistoleers would only have one pistolmeleedefense. As the pistoleer progresses, he/she would gain abilities on that special such as the KD that pistolmeleedefense1 has.
LuciusScipio wrote:
garvin wrote:
For example...Get rid of FlameSingle1 and FlameSingle2 and instead have a FlameSingle that gets more powerful the higher up you go in the profession (as in, for every box you take in Commando, you get points or a percentage boost that improves both speed and accuracy of that special)...
Well, how about simply having a Flame Single 3 for Master Commando? It would give people more incentive to reach Master level and it would give us an added boost to accuracy and damage. Just a thought.
MUHAHAHA
Skeptic666 wrote:
I keep hearing that and now im afraid to be a COmmando TKM. I swear Im going to poor water in your sand box then tell the devs it was a accident so I can take up the testing!
MUHAHAHA
Well...I know I'm keeping my main M.Commando/TKM template...after seeing what's coming I know that both will work VERY well together...
I'm also excited to try out Commando/Rifleman; Commando/Pikeman; Commando/Smuggler/Something else; along with many others...the working template combination choiceswill be a lot less restricted then they are now...
Rockhurst, I agree with your point.Garvin has a great idea. Actually, I like it a whole lot more than my suggestion...One of the main reasons why I suggested it is because I'm concerned that the Devs maytake an easier path and not put in as much effort as they could (at this point, it's hard for me to completely trust in them anymore)...adding a single flame/acid 3 may give us something better than we currently have...so I left this as an alternative since 50% of something is better than %0 of nothing...I probably shouldn't have because the above idea is really good and I don't want to discourage it.
Rockhurst wrote:
Lucius, what garvin is saying is instead of having 3 Flame Single's, have one special that improves as you level up. That way, instead of having two specials (Flame1 & Flame2) that you'll never use again once hitting master, just have one special. At novice, that special is = Flame1, as you progress it improves to Flame2, and when you finally hit Master it would be equivalent to a Flame3. Also, this should help with professions where a lower level special is better than a higher special. Take for instance pistolmeleedefense in pistoleer; pistolmeleedefense1 has a low HAM cost and includes a KD. On the other hand, pistolmeleedefense2 has a higher HAM cost and no KD. No pistoleer in their right minduses pistolmeleedefense2. With this change, instead of having one useless and one usefull special, pistoleers would only have one pistolmeleedefense. As the pistoleer progresses, he/she would gain abilities on that special such as the KD that pistolmeleedefense1 has.
LuciusScipio wrote:
garvin wrote:
For example...Get rid of FlameSingle1 and FlameSingle2 and instead have a FlameSingle that gets more powerful the higher up you go in the profession (as in, for every box you take in Commando, you get points or a percentage boost that improves both speed and accuracy of that special)...
Well, how about simply having a Flame Single 3 for Master Commando? It would give people more incentive to reach Master level and it would give us an added boost to accuracy and damage. Just a thought.
Rockhurst wrote:
With other products (WoW, EQ2, etc.) coming to the market, they devs have a huge motivator to get things right. SWG was designed to be the most accessable, widespread played MMORPG. They've gotten away from that in some areas, and these kinds of changes to specials will help us get back there.
And, 'ya never have to hold back on an idea. From everything that's said, you really have to think outside of thecurrent system we havewhen it comes to the revamp. Who knows, perhaps even after Master there will be ways for you to continue to improve your Flameshot...
I'm sure they have a huge level of motivation to get it right, but how do we trust that they are going to? If my pessimism is right, then it seems as if most if not all of their Devs were not present when the game was still being designed. What happened to the good old glory days when we would hear from people likeRaph Koster, Q and other folks?It's their ideas/vision that set this game in motion and I felt so hopeful back then. They used to frequently talk to us, argue with us and even change their minds right in the gaming boards! It wasn't perfect back then but there was a great relationship between the Devs and the fans/customers...Not the case anymore. They have TH gagged, hamstrung and chained at times now. In the old days, one got the impression that the Devs didn't hold back anything and I felt as if there was a good level of trust between us and them...I get the opposite impression now...seems like aTOTAL change inorganizational culture to me.This new culture doesn't seem to approve of open and honest communication with the customer base.
Speaking of old Devs, I wonder how much gaming design input Raph gets since his supposed 'promotion?' I haven't seen any of the original Devs (pre-origional Beta) post in the boards in a long long time. I wonder how many of them are left?...In other boards, I see Devs that I had never seen before...so this leaves Devs in charge of implementing a vision of a game that isn't theirs to begin with. That's one of the reasons why I've become pessimistic in the last couple of months.
Anyway, let me take a stab at outside of the box thinking. I remember that a long time ago, there had been discussions about future Elite Eliteprofessions that you could only access if you had mastered an Elite profession.The idea of a new Elite Commando profession might be a great place to fill with lots of new weapons, accuracy/speed mods and specials. Wouldn't it be great if we could actually discuss this kind of stuff...oh wait, we need the Docs to do that. hehe.
Well, Garvin's idea rings true with the original CH re-vamp. The devs felt CH "dabblers" were getting unfair advantage, so they split their mods over the entire tree, instead of in a couple of branches. I could see the same for us. It would cut down on the "Flame2" dabblers getting just the Flamethrower line.
Intriguing. I'm one of those who will have the most trouble adapting to the new post-revamp way of looking at professions. I think of myself as a Commando. I may keep my Pistoleer tree, but I do it for state defenses, not because I think of myself as some kind of Pistoleer/Commando. Commando was actually my first mastery (not counting Marksman on my way to Commando). Ever since launch I've been playing a true Dabbler. Usually Medic/Scout/Artisan/Entertainer/Pistoleer/Musician. Obviously I never Mastered anything, but kept 1 to 2 trees in each profession. I just got tired of never being able to do anything WELL. So I started on my road to Mastery. Now you can check my sig, I've learned my lesson.
LuciusScipio wrote:
What happened to the good old glory days when we would hear from people likeRaph Koster, Q and other folks?It's their ideas/vision that set this game in motion and I felt so hopeful back then. They used to frequently talk to us, argue with us and even change their minds right in the gaming boards! It wasn't perfect back then but there was a great relationship between the Devs and the fans/customers...Not the case anymore.
Speaking of old Devs, I wonder how much gaming design input Raph gets since his supposed 'promotion?' I haven't seen any of the original Devs (pre-origional Beta) post in the boards in a long long time. I wonder how many of them are left?...In other boards, I see Devs that I had never seen before...so this leaves Devs in charge of implementing a vision of a game that isn't theirs to begin with. That's one of the reasons why I've become pessimistic in the last couple of months.
LuciusScipio wrote:
If my pessimism is right, then it seems as if most if not all of their Devs were not present when the game was still being designed....They used to frequently talk to us, argue with us and even change their minds right in the gaming boards!...They have TH gagged, hamstrung and chained at times now. In the old days, one got the impression that the Devs didn't hold back anything and I felt as if there was a good level of trust between us and them...
Anyway, let me take a stab at outside of the box thinking. I remember that a long time ago, there had been discussions about future Elite Eliteprofessions that you could only access if you had mastered an Elite profession.The idea of a new Elite Commando profession might be a great place to fill with lots of new weapons, accuracy/speed mods and specials. Wouldn't it be great if we could actually discuss this kind of stuff...oh wait, we need the Docs to do that. hehe.
It's unfortunate to say, but that openness from the Devs we had last year is part of why so many people are upset today. The devs would comment on implementing things when they had no real understanding of resources and whether it was really feasable or not...a situation which often tends to create lots of "broken promises". You are correct. There is a new change in culture with the Devs that at first might not appear as good as what we had before. However, I think the new culture is much more focused...focused on results and in the end that's all that matters. I don't care as much how often the Devs talk to me about the Revamp. I just want to see them get it done...done right and quick. The fact that we have to get a simple announcement like "we won't discuss the revamp until after JTL ships" second hand via garvin instead of TH posting it himself is just rediculous. TH even responded to a post of mine where I said he should know how badly the community wants ANY communication from him on the Revamp. He responded that he will as soon as he can...that was probably a month or more ago. From everything that the correspondents have said, the dev team has a great vision of the future of SWG.
One thing the Devs have said is a big "No" to elite-elite professions. I'm very opposed to them myself since it's a sort of cop-out for not getting the profession right in the first place. Also, elite-elite professions only further force players into a mold. What I would rather see are some of the things garvin has discussed. Things like customizing your Commando by learning skills from other professions and applying them to your Commando weapons. It's an elite-elite model in a sense, but notthe hard fast approach most players would expect. You can make your commando as elite as possible...your only restraint is the number of skill points you have available. Also, one of the discrepancies between ranged and melee professions is that we have elite professions that are based on master marksman...how many meleeprofessions do you see with a master brawler pre-req? And, does that master marksman pre-req really pay the dividends it should for us? Not by a long-shot. The devs need to give us further encouragement to master the base professions...perhaps we'll "unlock" skill trees for being master marksmen.
This is pure speculation, but im guessing at like you have master commando, and master rifleman, and have accuracy bonus's for both. The accuracy bonus's from the rifleman in a way help your accuracy with commando weapon, and having a slightly longer range but a decrease in speed.
Like a Commando/Rifleman is the long range accurate commando but a little slow.
A Commando/Carbineer is the mid range area hitting commando
A Commando/Pistoleer is a fast hitting short range tank.
Also on making it instead of having 3 different flamer moves, maybe the devs are thinking of having your flamer moves evolve with the higher you are in your profession, such as other games have it that moves get lvled up, maybe having bonus's in trees that make your moves better.