Commando Archive
Thread: Commando defenses
garvin wrote:
The way I see it...we should not be compared to professions that cost less skill points...we should be compared to what other combat professions get when they spent 169 pts in only Combat Professions...to me that means we should come with Heavy Damage and some form of moderate defenses that are comparable to other less skill point costing professions (since they can take their extra skill pts, invest them up to 169pts at least, and gain DPS abilities that are comparable or greater then ours)....
So what would you expect a player to get for spending 169 pts? Is Heavy Damage enough to justify the higher skill point cost or should some degree of elite profession comparable defenses come with that extra cost?
Depends on where those 169 skill points went I guess... in pvp as it is now, it would probably go into defense stacking in fencer and pistoleer. But the more I think about it.. where else would they go? (if you kept it in combat only skills, not counting medic.. etc) Its like, once we master our main profession.. basically we just use the remaining SP on defenses which usually means at least 4-0-4-0 Pistoleer, or some combination of that with Fencer. Using the skill points in other professions could get you a wider range of proficiency with other weapons I guess, but it wont make any 1 thing better... (Unless your talking about speed and accuracy mods.. but the only crossover that can happen in is BH)especially with that murderous equip delay in place. To sum up, I'm trying to say the only reasonable place to put in extra SP is with defense stacking.. theres no tree's of other professions we can take to increase damage output. So by that reasoning alone, we should have huge defenses. Maybe what we should think mostly on, is what role we want to play... are we offensive juggernauts (envisions Arnold Swarzeneggar mowing down a field of baddies with a chain gun) or brutish tanker types, who's damage might be moderate, but extremely tough.. letting them stay in the battle for a long time. After we figure that out I think what we want/need while staying balancedwill be much easier to peg.
I'm also trying to keep in mind most other professions can specifically target 1 HAM pool until its dead.. and most often their quicker attack speeds, hitting 1 pool equals our heavy damage in the time its takes to kill the target... So, to me our heavy damage isnt playing out how its supposed to. I know a lot of our probs are based off other things too (like buffs) and such.. but I'm trying to think on a smaller scale without going off on a tangeant, hehe.
Thats just my take on it anyway...
Falcor Krevan
garvin wrote:
Arkelion wrote:
I'm also trying to keep in mind most other professions can specifically target 1 HAM pool until its dead.. and most often their quicker attack speeds, hitting 1 pool equals our heavy damage in the time its takes to kill the target... So, to me our heavy damage isnt playing out how its supposed to. I know a lot of our probs are based off other things too (like buffs) and such.. but I'm trying to think on a smaller scale without going off on a tangeant, hehe.
Your assuming that this will be true post-revamp...
When the devs start posting the public revamp docs, keep a special eye out for the updated HAM changes...
Niice.. that should put a new spin on PVP. I'm getting real excited to see'ing how the CB fans out. I guess JTL will be around to soften the wait though 
Falcor Krevan
Message Edited by TK-132 on 10-05-2004 06:35 AM
TK-132 wrote:
I'm not saying make commandos invincible just make it so we stay on our feet. Or just make it so KD isn't such a big factor on whether you lose or not. Like I say high damage isn't any good if you don't even get the chance use it. This is how commandos should work. Commandos have good defences and some of the most powerful weapons and attacks in the game. However the more powerful the weapon the slower it is. While waiting to use our weapon again we are vulnerable to attacks and can't counter attack, block, and such. I dunno if that's how it's going to be, but it would be nice. I mean we won't be tanks, but will be able to dish out the damage and not just be the cannon fodder or the "Flame Dot Specialist" we are now.
Message Edited by TK-132 on 10-05-2004 06:35 AM
Skip to the bottom if you'd like to just get to my point and not have to endure all my babbling... 
The trick is all in the "balance"...we should have the type of defenses that are attainable by a 92 skill point costing ranged profession like Rifleman or Pistoleer with a focus on Melee over Ranged Defenses due to our melee ranged specials...But we shoudl also have the Damage Output capability DPS'wise that a 92 skill point profession can gain when they spend an additional 77 points (to get to 169). Of course, our defenses should give a bit in exchange for a higher one-shot damage capability.
The key issue of where we should be balanced in relation to other professions should not be focused as much as it is on our Defenses...its should be focused on our Damage per second...We should be heavy intial hitters, but even out over time...We should have slightly lower defenses then some of the other professions, but only when compared to what is possible when spending 169 pts ALL in combat related professions (in otherwords, don't compare our defenses to a Carbineer/Dancer/Musician...compare us to a Carbineer/Rifleman/etc...our pre-reqs and post reqs are ALL combat)...
And for anyone who wants to compare Bounty Hunters in here I have an opinion on that as well...We should compare quite well to them (which means they need love too)...I'd love to see us have the advantage over BH's when it comes to High Damage per shot...I would like to see BH's have the advantage over us when it comes to Damage over time...in otherwords, if a Commando has a chance to kill a BH, it needs to be done quickly...for a BH to win, they'd have to last long enough...The key between the 2 professions would be balancing Damage level vs. Defensive capabilities...Both of these professions should be the Elite of the Elite and be treated as though 169 pts were spent...
Summary of all the babbling above:
Currently it cost 92 points to get an Elite Profession...You can get 2 Elite Professions for 184 points and severely out damage (via DPS) Commandos as well as have way more Defenses...Commandos can not compensate for this by spending an additional 15 points (169 + 15 = 184) in either DPS or Defenses...That's where the problem becomes most obvious...2 Players who spend the same amount of skill points in all combat related boxes should become more comparable the more points they spend...a 169 pt ranged player should be quite comparable to another 169 pt ranged player making for a fairly even fight where it's the one with the best strategy and tactics (and a bit of luck)that wins...That's where this game should be and where it should be going (or maybe that's already part of the greater plan)...
Message Edited by garvin on 10-05-2004 09:14 AM
Skeptic666 wrote:
Good then my tkm/commando/novice medic should kick butt!
That will make a fairly hard to kill combo that won't be easily able to damage a ranged opponent, but at the same time, a Ranged opponent will have a hard time killing you from a ranged distance...
It will still remain a great PvE template...but it will have more PvP potential then it does currently...it all comes down to strategy and the template set up of your opponent...
Message Edited by DrakkoFett on 10-05-2004 02:07 PM
Sort of like a new type of toughness that could be called something like"Heavy Weapon Toughness"...hmmmm...
DrakkoFett wrote:
Funny I was just thinking about this at work today. I would love to see us get a defense similar to unarmed toughness. When I think of a Commando I think of a battle hardened soldier, which should be very hard to take down. I would also spread it out over all four trees. +1 for each first tier box. +2 for the next, +3, and +4 for each fourth box. That would give you +40Battle toughness or whatever you want to call it. And give +50 at master. It would be like becoming battle hardened as you work you way through Commando. Not like any of this matters though, just something I would love to see.
Sasher
Message Edited by DrakkoFett on 10-05-2004 02:07 PM