Commando Archive
Thread: Flame Thrower Suggestion Thread
nope and nope we ant changeing it one bit expt for maby some more ac mods and speed mods
and im prity sure ivoni and almost all othere commandos will agree
1: Reduce the wounds from the fire dot or remove them all together. Alternatively have the fire dot deathblow you 1 tic after it incaps you. This prevents people from being griefed by the massive wounds. The wounds DO have an important role though, unlike bleed and other dots the wounds prevent the player for healing himself to save his life. Thus I am more intrested in stopping the griefing by haveing the dot DB you if it tics while your incapped.
2: Either make the flamethrower DOT effected by armor (because of the high wounds, and the huge damage per tic, this is vital) or reduce the DOTs damage. Our flamethowers DOT is NOT a bleed, compareing it to bleed is not helping anyone. Its far more powerful and far harder to cure then bleed (duh use water, duh water isn't always around! Players can cure bleed with first aid 2 or meditation, without even needing any resources or any special terrain, they can NOT cure fire dot by any means other then finding water, water is not always around. Telling them to deal with it means you don't care about class balance.) Thus for class balance reason, it needs changeing (a little, not alot, and deffinately not both changes at once, one or the other is perfect). Also if the fire dot does the db, the player it killed should NOT lose fp, nor should the commando useing the flamethrower recieve fp. This way players will be less likely to use the specials in pvp unless they are close to their target and can db them quickly, but the weapon continues to be a usefull tool for reduceing the enemys numbers.
3: Nerf the nerf herders claiming its to powerful, and nerf the dabbler haters claiming it should move all its specials to master and most of its mods to master too. This helps no one and if the weapons DOT was fixxed then dabblers wouldn't be dabbleing in it so much.
4: Remove the ability to stack flamethrower specials. This makes no sense and is seriously imbalanceing the game.
5: CHANGE NOTHING ELSE.
It seems that the most destructive part of the flamer is the Damage Over Time (DOT)which leaves huge amounts of wounds. Like bleeding shot there should be a remedy such as firstaid but for the burning.
To tone down the flamer's potency in PVP, each player should be able to perform an action such as /douseflames which requires the player to go to prone, activate this action (which takes a fewaction points) which then sets off the dodge animatic as teh player rolls on the ground to douse the burning DOT. There should be about a 30% chance of success, and while the player is prone the DOT is slowed but the player is vulnerable to melee and additional flamer attacks (you will notice that when targets are prone it is easier to hit with the flamer).
Giving the players a way to douse the flames would put a bit of the 'honourability' back into the flamer that the non-commandos have come to complain about.
Wounds are very important to PvP. They are what causes real down time and are the only way that you can impose an end to a fight based on the skills and people present in a fight other than "look at the time, I got to go to bed." If there are no wounds you might as well play counter strike or unreal and continously respawn fully capable until the game ends or you have to leave.
Properly prepped any side in a PvP fight can quickly deal with any wounds dealt to its combatants and have them return to the field effective and with buffs.
Wounds would only greatly effect someone doing PvP solo and as I said before, what you can do solo is unimportant. It takes just a few minutes to turn all black bars into all full buffed bars and when that is possible it means that wounds in game are not a real burden.
ok i got it hum same dam no wounds or same dam lower wounds
(FLAMETHROWER)
needs rang mods changed to -30/+50/+0needs dot wounds removed or lowerd but keep same dam
needs a cure for it besides watter sagestion
a thermol blanket that only BEs can make and use they have to wrap you in it for 30secs to put out the fire this can be done in and out of battel (why in battelbecaous some ppl would try to keep you in battel so u couldint get it cured othere wise )
dose this work ?
ecadnistflier thats what were doing heres what u have dicied so fare
(NUMBER 1 THING TO DO FIRST)
FIX AP and AOE
(HEAVY ACID RIFLE)
make it exatly like the llc{exept acid dam not elc dam} no dealy after specils same dam same speed ap1 and maby alittle better we our the hw ppl so in no way should the llc actuly be better maby the har should be ap2
(FLAMETHROWER)
needs rang mods changed to -30/+50/+0needs dot wounds removed or lowerd but keep same dam
needs a cure for it besides watter sagestion
a thermol blanket that only BEs can make and use they have to wrap you in it for 30secs to put out the fire this can be done in and out of battel (why in battel becaous some ppl would try to keep you in battel so u couldint get it cured othere wise )
(LAUNCHER PISTOL)
give the lp ap 1(if a dx2 has ap 1 the lp should most defintly get ap1) and add lp specils in the har line wich would have thees 4 things a rang kd and a -rang dizzyattack- and a -lock on attack- (that would give us +100% ac for a bit on one target) ,and, a -high powered attack that hits random pools- and for mods some thing like this by the time u get master +25 ac why moveing +50 ac and +50 speed (and make it so that specils/mods other then the commando mods and specils wont work with it a lp ....the lp is nothing like a reguler pistol )
(HEAVY WEAPONS)
take the -119 rang mods of the hwps and make -19/+50/-19
make all hw have atlest 50 charges
make the radious of the hws 16m and for the rocket launcher 25m
make the HPBC and the RL have + ac and +1.5x dam vers big mobs -ac vers small mobs
make the ASL and the LC have + ac and +1.5x dam vers small mob -1.5 dam vers big mobs
(GERNADES)
make some of the gernades have stat efects like dizzy kd stun blind posion(glop gernades should posion) (hey plzs give us a phouspherious gernads to ) and theres ben alot of tallk about giveing us a gernade launcher this would make gernads shoot 64m but would not let you use closer then 32m and could stack 3-5 sets of gernades in one it would decay like normal weps
the ham would be about 5/20/10+ to what the gernade all ready cost the speed would be 2.2+ to what the gernade all ready are and the rang mods would be -30/+30/-20 (ideal rang be about 48m) ....so lets say u have a gernade that is 12/35/12 ham cost and speed 2.5 rang mod -12/+20/-12 max rang 32m min rang 0 after puting it in the launcher it be
ham cost 18/50/22 speed would now be 4.8 and ran mods would now be -30/+30/-20 max rang 64m and min 32
make the gernades rang mods -12/+20/-12
make ham on gernades 12/35/12
make speed on gernades 2.5 .... but the gernads dont go off on impact they wait for 3 secs to explode
make all gernades have ap 3
make the radius of most gernades 16m and the proton gernade 25m
make it so u dont hit ur shelf with ur own gernades
add a command to role instead of only toss/throw
and most of all take the 2.5 mod away(or do it like this field tactics 1 mod 2.0 field 2 mod 1.5 feild 3 mod 1.0 field 4 mod .5 master no mod )
this would make us like were sapose to be and it make the hw worth buying knowing that u wont miss 50% of the time useing them
and the gernades be worth useing becous there fast accurat and aoe with not to high of ham
what u think any thingyou dont like or think is over powerd plz say so we can fix befor we hand it in 
That's a very short sighted approach to the situation....
Yes, the HAR is worthless...
Yes, the Launcher is not really any more use than a nice FWG5...
and Yes, the other heavy weapons, grenades and such are just about useless as is....
BUT!!! that doesn't mean that the current situation shouldn't be addressed.
The facts are clear - people see the 0/0/4/0 flame thrower users and get an impression from them that Commandos are too powerful.
Not adjusting that situation leaves the devs facing screams to NERF Commandos because they are too powerful.
With the equation appearing to be BH > Commando > all others, the devs are left to basically nerf those top end professions, and completely ignore any changes that either of those professions really should have.
If the HAR was fixed (make it armor piercing - acid should eat through metal, think about it!!), then people would use it more. If the Launcher picked up speed/accuracy/damage through some skill tree, it would get used more. If grenades hit others for more damage and didn't blow up in your face, they'd get used more often, etc., etc. All true, but not likely to be addressed until AFTER the devs stop hearing that Commandos are the big bullies in the game.
The biggest issue is the DOT, and not being able to put out the flames. That should be fixed. And suggesting that taking a swim is the solution is just not the answer. There are too many places where it just isn't possible, and that compounds the situation because people see attacks happening in those places and hold that negative image of the Commando to continue their screaming that Commandos are too powerful.
The F/T works well. Too well. But only because of the DOT. Fix the DOT, but make the fix costly. Have it require First Aid 3 (something most people won't keep the points to get), or perhaps even First Aid 4. Have it require use of BE manufactured items, or Doctor or Combat medic manufactured items. Heck, go even further. Make the fix require First Aid 3 to use, but have the fix also require BE components, and Doctor components. That means in order to get say a thermal blanket or fire extinguisher manufactured, you'd need components from a BE to use in a schematic that only a Doctor could make, or only an artisan could make, etc. More cooperation between classes, and more expense to the solution -- but still a solution that anyone could get, so they'd no longer have the argument that the Commando's DOT is way too powerful and must be eliminated.
It wouldn't break PvP, as people would be able to choose - stand and fight and hope for a "cure" for the DOT from a Medic/Doc, or run and find a place to swim. With more standing and fighting, the other classes wouldn't feel that Commandos are owning them all the time in the fights. Even if they did die, they'd likely stand a fair chance at hitting back. That should be possible, and currently is pretty far from it.
Fix the DOT, and the screams that Commandos are too powerful will stop. Then the screams that Commandos are a one-trick poney and need their other weapons/attacks/specials fixed will finally really be heard.
EcadMistflier wrote:
Fix the rest of the commando weapons and then we can talk about the Flamethrower. Until then it is just fine the way it is.
The biggest issue is the DOT, and not being able to put out the flames. That should be fixed. And suggesting that taking a swim is the solution is just not the answer. There are too many places where it just isn't possible, and that compounds the situation because people see attacks happening in those places and hold that negative image of the Commando to continue their screaming that Commandos are too powerful.
I am sorry but this is an old argument and is self defeating. Do you believe you should be able to solo a Krayt? Not that commandos are Krayts butthey are meant to be a character class that others shouldthink twice about getting into a fight with. In other words: We were meant to inspire respect and a little fear at least at Master.
Concerning fairness and PvP, when the commandos went to bat for the riflemen over the damage we did with the flamethrower and their 2.5x mod we saw ourselves as very noble. "It's just not fair" we said to the devs.The result was the mod stayed on the riflemen and we got it slapped on us as well and the flamethrower moved from melee to ranged. So much for balancing and fairness.
We have alot of "weapons" that have great special effects graphics and only one that is really effective that don't cost an arm and a leg to use.The game is not just about PvP but I assure you it is the PvP players who whine the most about the commando "owning" everyone else and starting the whole nerf bat swinging. The whole idea of the commando owning everyone is ridiculous. I used to be a big proponent of the fix the flame crew. Now i am saying the nerf bat is gonna swing again no matter what. Oh yeah, it is gonna swing. I just want to have some of the other weapons actually working before they take the flame out of the flame thrower so all the 12 and 13 year old BH's, Brawlers, and chefs can "Own" the commando again. You want a "drop and roll" tool to fix the burn? Fine with me. Just don't touch the DoT.