Commando Archive
Thread: Why does LLC get AR1, and our non-charge weapons get AR0?
you spent less skill points in combat oriented skills.
heh, when was the last time you used your extra combat skills (unarmed)? The prerequisites for both BH and commando areuseless and irrelevant. They are just there to use up your pool of skill points to compensate for how powerfulthe two elite professions are. BHs spend more in these pre-reqs, therefore they are compensated by being more powerful. commandos have big pre-reqs too but not as big as BH. so commados should be very powerful also, just not as much as BHs.
according to you, BH should be less powerful than commando(no, im not asking for this). why should an investment into scout make you more combat viable? should a player that spends his skill points in artisan and chef and dancer be as good as combat? they used just as many points. fact is, everyone , EVERYONE will eventually spend all of their points, why do you say the bounty hunter should "be more powerful"? again, ill point it out one more time: commandoes use *MORE* skill points on combat than bounty hunters do. so by your reasoning, bounjty hunters should most definately be less powerful?
Don't put words in my mouth please. 
If you were to read what I said, you would see that I think that any two combat oriented players who spend theSAME amount of skill points, should ideally be equally powerful. If player A spends 217 skill points (like for BH) he SHOULD be more powerful thanplayer B that just spends just169 points (like for commando). If player B spends additional points up to 217 then ideally he should be as powerful as player A. I'm not saying that a BH player should ALWAYS be more powerful than a commando player, but a player thathas onlyBH should definately be more powerful than a player that has only commando.
elorei1 wrote:
the point is though, no matter how many points are spent with the "left overs" the bounty hunter still gets the AP1 weapon, this is the issue being brought up here, thats 2x as much damage vs any armored opponent. you say commando should be "almost" as powerful, 50% is not almost in most ppl's books.
there you go putting words in my mouth again! please stop.
where did I say "almost"? In factLLCis indeedMUCH more powerful than the commando weapons and rightly so! They had to spend 48(!) more skill points than us to get it.
Thank you Elorei, that is what i was trying to say....but i oviously got off track 
Who cares about time?? I'm talking skill points here. A master commando can also master medic or pistoleer or rifleman if he wants to. A master pistoleer can also master CH or even one of the elite crafting professions with plenty of points to spare. A BH cannot. BHs commit much more skill points to getting to their profession, and sacrifice being able to learn other things. So yeah, they sould be more powerful
Ok, Thats my point roght there...BH is pretty much Self Sufficient...you don't have to use an addidtional 29 points getting terain negotiation, you already have it...you don't have to use additional point trying to get a Knockdown, you already have it...You don't need to take Rifle to get mind(pvp) attacks, you already have them...You don't have to meet the CH pre-req's to get some decent cratures, you already have them (granted with faction pets this isn't so much a big deal anymore)....ect...
Basicly the point is Bount hunters are Self sufficient(no gripe with that at all)...but Everything they have is the best of everything else(with few exceptions)...so why be anything else? Lets just change the name of the game to Star Wars: Bounties....And then since everyone is taking the same thing it doesn't even need to be a MMORPG...it can be a Single player game that has an online pvp Option.
Why would anyone spend all those skill points to get to BH if he can't compete with a class that barely requires any like pistoleer??On top of thatthe master pistoleer can also get things like Master CH and be even more powerful. BH cannot. The skill point justification is valid!
Ok, Using this argument...master pistoleers Spend 92 points on Just pistol skills...that only leaves them with 158 points to get other skills. Bounty hunters only Spend 55 point on pistol skills, and that is counting novices and masters the encompas much more then just pistol, leaving master BH's 195 points left to spend on other skills. Ok now this is not a direct logic, so you miss the point, but it is sound. Why should a Bounty hunter Be able to Smoke a pistoleer who spent easily twice as many points on pistol skills? The skill point justification isNOT valid.
Ok on to my second reply from this statement. Bounty hunters do NOT need to master bounty hunter...infact there are very very VERY few who do. Most only grab the line that they want, such as pistol carbine or (now) light Lighning cannon...Most who are not planing to master don't waste time(or points) on investigation. That easily leave plenty of points for master : Ranger, Pisoleer, Carbineer, Creature handler, riflemen, squadleader...WITHOUT having to give up the benifits of having the bounty hunters, Most powerfull, Pistol Carbine or heavy weapon Specials and weapons. Fact is if you become any Profession you don't have to become a master of the profession to be sucsessful....this fact is even more apperant for Bountyhunters. In fact the Master pisoleer+Bounty hunter Pisol line alows you to weild the most distructive(read:Slow) pistols, with Any of the Best Specials, at the 1 second speed cap and never miss(just an example )
Again if this were true, people would have to becrazy to spend all those points to get to BH when they would get owned by classes that require almost nothing.
Um you mised the part where i said, "Bountyhunters should have to tacticaly use a combination of abbilities to beat masters of these elite professions" ...Heh...I'm saying the BH should have to use more then just eye shot, or fast blast to beat a master pistoleer, Hence fire knockdown or something, plus the pistol skills
I'm amazed. You have totally missed the point of high skill point requirements for BH. The point is not that you have to spend so many points for master BH... the point is that you have so few point left after you are done. The more points you have left after you master your profession, the more points you have to spend on OTHER THINGS that make you more powerful. Ideally, any two combat oriented players that spend the same amount of skill points should be equally powerful. If you still can't understand why BHs are supposed to be more powerful after spending more points, than I give up
Nah, i didn't miss your point...it is an understandable point of view, i just don't agree with it. As a Commando + Combat medic(who can't decide at all ) i know all too well about the lack of points left over(both the second most demanding profesions, 48 points less then BH)...Its not like either of my choices are pistoleers or TKS's who have many options still avalible to them.
The part we are all pointing out is that things are not directly Comparable....No one has a problem with Bountyhunters being the best 1on1 combat guys...people have a problem when Bountyhunters get unreasonable specials and abilities that make their specialist class feel inferior. As a commando i don't care if a Bountyhunter is better then me with a pistol, or a carbine, or investigation(Heh)...i do however care that he is better then me with a Heavy weapon when my entire charicter is devoted soley to heavy weapons...Can you understand that point of view? Same can be said From a Pistoleer or carbineer Point of View...thank fully you guys don't have a rifle line, or you would realy be up fora nerfEVERY other "at bat"...
Deadbeat99 wrote:
...there you go putting words in my mouth again! please stop.where did I say "almost"? In factLLCis indeedMUCH more powerful than the commando weapons and rightly so! They had to spend 48(!) more skill points than us to get it.
Ok, Give up investigation and then i will call you a Combat oriented class....Untill then you are a Hybrid. There is no other clasification for it....Ifget the devs to that the Bounty out of Bounty hunters(not gonna happen) then Sure, i'll agree you are a More Combat oriented class then I.
You are a marksmen + Scout Hybrid....i am a Marksmen + Brawler Combat profession.....Hybrid Vs Combat Profession....You can do more then just fight as a master Bountyhunter, As a Master Commando All i have is Combat...In Fact i have More Combat then you EVER will...There is no Chance in HELL that you are going to convince any commando(or anyone else that isn'ta bounty hunter defending bountyhunters)that Bountyhunters are more of a Combat Class then Commandos...You are a Combat oriented hybrid...but still a Hybrid non the less.
Bounty hunters came here and gave you tons of support for the situation you guys were in. And we also supported you in the less then stellar response to your report 1..
Now that you get some love you take the low road and cry nerf on us? Grow the **edit** up.. And yes that *edit* <-- is a four letter word starting with "F"
They are a hybrid class who pay a lot to get where they are.
They deserve to be better than a Master Pistoler/Carbiner which is what they were.
Now they have heavy weapons to which they are just as effective with as we are with ours.
The LLC is equal to our HaR in damage..mostly. Our Har needs AP1.
I played with a BH all day. It's great.
They have their pros. They have their cons.
You are a marksmen + Scout Hybrid....i am a Marksmen + Brawler Combat profession.....Hybrid Vs Combat Profession....You can do more then just fight as a master Bountyhunter, As a Master Commando All i have is Combat...In Fact i have More Combat then you EVER will...There is no Chance in HELL that you are going to convince any commando(or anyone else that isn'ta bounty hunter defending bountyhunters)that Bountyhunters are more of a Combat Class then Commandos...You are a Combat oriented hybrid...but still a Hybrid non the less.
"Hybrid profession". "Combat class". Sorry but those are just your definitions and really have nothing to do with anything. So BH is not a combat profession?? Looks like someone forgot to tell the developers that.
JediQuic: You say a BH shouldn't be able to beat a pistoleer with a pistol, I say <Agreed>
You say a BH shouldn't be able to beat a carbineer with a carbine, I say <Agreed>
Then you say:------
Ask any BH how they PVP and you will get the same answer...: FireKnockdown, Eye shot, Eyeshot, Eyeshot...dead player 4-8 seconds...reguardless of who they are fighting....or, Lightnin single 1(2) + Victory dance....
So we shouldn't be successful when we swap between weapons, and use our specials to our advantage? I thought that was the point of having multiple weapon line in BH, so we can use what's the most effective at any given moment.
If a player was to Master Pistoleer AND Carbine, they'd be just as effective, probably more so.
Chargeshot2(AOE KD), crippling shot, fan shot, fan shot, fan shot.... you don't think that would work in PvP, nail someone with crippling shot after thev'y been Knockddown, and check the damage on it.
As a BH I still use bodyshot2, when my target is low on health, to drop them quickly. I use whatever works the best and fastest...
I agree Ivoni. Instead of screaming at each other to nerf one another - why not agree that the HAR could use AR1? I don't think its particularly unreasonable. Not to mention this way both professions get to keep the things that both professions want and need. I like to think that both our professions have enjoyed a certain amount of mutual respect - why change that when an accomodating solution can be reached? Personally, if I get my butt kicked by a commando I don't feel bad, and if the reverse happens, then I make a point of not making the other guy feel so bad either.
Heck, on the first day of the patch the first thing I did was I duelled a commando with a flamethrower using my LLC. You know what happened? I dropped her in one shot...then 2 seconds later dropped dead from the flame DoT she had hit me with. When it comes down to it I see no reason why one profession should play second fiddle to the other. We're both pretty **edit** potent in our own rights.
).I would have to say w/o any offense meant that Bh's are skill intensive and imo deserve the ar1 to help make those skill boxes worth it. Granted I am a Bh but I always try to look at things from an "outside looking in" perspective and truthfully believe w/o some balances upwards in favor of the BH profession the skill cost wouldn't be worth it.
Please let's keep the brotherhood that Commandos and Bh's have been fostering alive and well
Comon guys, we finally get fixed and the 1st thing ppl do is try to cry nerf on everyone so we can be the PvP kings. Sorry, but we were never intended to be PvP gods... just gods of mass damage. I am happy as hell that my profession finally works. There will probably be more tweaks regarding Commando and BH coming up so what we are now is not set in stone. The acid Rifle getting AR1 would make it more viable as it is pretty substandard to the FT atm (lower damage, slower rof, similar range). I only use it to make me more versatile i.e. use it vs a mob vulnerable to acid damage. That's where I think Commando's really shine... damage versatility. I've noticed no one has yet to notice this or if they have not think it important enough to bring up. We get heavy hitting weapons that do Blast, Energy, Cold, Electricity, Acid, and Heat based damage. Hell, we have practically every damage category covered except Kinetic, but if you went TKA (like I did) you have that covered too. A well stocked commando hone in on any vulnerability that the creature, person, or tank has. Bounty Hunters get ONE weapon that focuses on Electricity that does good damage and we got guys cryin NERF... I find that funny and sad.
Plus, no one has mentioned grenades. I just bought a couple of stacks of Frag Grenades that do 350-1350 damage with a 7 AOE range. I don't see BH's getting these beauties.
1on1 vs a person Bounty Hunters should win on average.
Commando's are heavy weapon specialists, we are supposed to smoke AT-ST's, Turrets, and any other tank/armored vehicle that comes our way. That's our niche. 1 on 1 PvP domination is the BH's niche. Let them have their glory while we have ours.
We are the 2 most powerful classes in the game IMO. If you get BH's and Commando's working together they can tear down practically anything. We should be co-operating with one another, not tearing each other down over who's more UBER in PvP.
Sure, you gotta Master Scout. So what?
Most Commando's pick up Scout. Most EVERYONE picks up scout and gets explore to IV, and Hunting to II for the + to hit creatures with ranged.
That's a given. So really, you can hack off one line, and half of another. Cause most Commando's I know, or -anyone- for that matter has scout and explore for the run bonus. Oh, but you have to take Master Scout, and get more run bonus. And traps. (But this doesn't help in pvp!)
Sure, but it helps in PvE.
Commandos have no knockdown. Commandos have no Mind Damage. Commandos have to get Unarmed IV. Which, is alot harder then getting Master Scout.
Trust me, in the time it took me to get Unarmed IV (and further more even harder now w/o VK's.) -- you could get Master Scout many, many, many times.
You'd have Master Scout by the time you got Master Marksman. It's pretty easy. The one that takes the longest is the camps- but now with the increase in XP -- you get it easier. It'd take a day, maybe, of just sitting in camp.
We both share Master Marksman. Why? Because of versatility. We have to do unarmed.
It's just as tedious, if not more tedious. Same with Smugglers. They have to do it too.
I'm not whining cause I had to do it. I did it, got it over with. I never use it now.
Scout, at least-- you can use. The terrain nav, the maskscent, and the burst run eff is nice.
The +10 to hit ranged, is nice. The foraging is decent if you're not in money to buy (insert buff name here).
The camps aren't all that bad, either. Trapping is good PvE if you're solo. Kinda makes it easier to kite.
BH is versatile. No other combat class can target -any- ham pool they want.
Sure, Commando can, if we carry a rifle, a carbine, and our heavy weapons.
With the speed however, you can fire faster than anyone else. Or pretty close to it.
Yes, BH are the best combat class in the game. Hands down. Even as a Commando, I'll say it.
You are. So why are you complaining?
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Heck, I'd love to be able to spam a 1.0 shot and hit for 170 mind damage all the time too. =)
But, do I care? Not really.
.. it cut me off.
I don't really care. I didn't want to be a BH. I wanted to use heavy weaponry. Now it works. Now I can go off to that battlefield and blow up turrets, and flame infantry, and -- well, yeah, I can pick what kind of damage I want.
I've not got to toy with the acid rifle just yet-- but, even if it doesn't do as much damage it still does a lot in comparison.
I don't have any of the cannons. Nor do I have the money to go buy one, or rocket launchers all day either.
That's going to restrict many of us non-huge-amassed-exploited-wealth commandos.
We didn't get three months to build our chars up to Master like everyone else did.
Some people hit Master Commando. Good job to you! You had the fortitude to stick with it.
BH are good 1v1.
Commandos are good vs groups.
Isn't that how it was supposed to be?