Commando Archive

no, because the commando beam rifle special will only work with the beam rifle. Ill say it again, its just like the HAR/Flamer specials. Both are heavy weapons. Both have the same exact attacks, minus dots. Yet you press acid cone when holding a flamer and it wont work.

Unfortunately this takes me right back to your previous statement (I'm sorry for going round and round)...it doesn't make sense...

Beam Rifle can use rifle specials, but Launcher pistol CANNOT use pistol specials (to prevent pistoleers from getting access to commando LP, which is devastating with pistoleer mods).

You can't have it one way and not the other...You can't have Commando's able to use Rifle Specials and not have Rifleman able to use Beam Rifle Specials (for their T21)...If you want the Beam Rifle to be it's own weapon then it can not use rifle specials...only it's own special...which brings me back to the LP...I actually do agree with you regarding the LP (I was just throwing in the opposite side of the arguement)...the LP should be a Commando weapon only with it's own Commando specials...not a pistol anymore...It gives Heavy Weapon XP, so make it use Heavy Weapon Specials...Some folks have said to move the cert to a higher postition, but this would hurt Novice Commando's needing XP and having to use the FT for it. But if we don't get the right specials, then again, we'd have a useless weapon in most cases...

When the dev's designed the LP, I'm sure they thought "Hey, let's encourage the Commando's to dabble in Pistoleer...that way they can get their ranged specials and we don't have to do the real fix to the Commando Profession...they'll be satisfied with that"...I doubt they really thought of Pistoleers dabbling in Commando to get the LP as a major issue...of course, seeing the big picture always seems to come later...lol...The better solution from the start should have been make the LP a Heavy Weapon with it's own Heavy Weapon Ranged Specials....

if they go rifleman and use rifleman specials with the beam rifle, they're hurting themselves. for they should be using laser rifle or t21.

what do riflemen gain from beam riflewith rifleman specialsspecials? nothing.

You are missing what I am saying...I have restated it repeatedly!!! Rifleman use the T21 and Laster Rifle...In your Proposal, Commandos would use the Beam Rifle...our Beam Rifle would have Special of it's own in the Commando Trees....But the Beam Rifle would also be able to use Rifle Specials...

So let's re state this...

Beam Rifle = Beam Rifle Specials + Rifle Specials

If that is true then this also has to be true:

T21 & Laser Rifle = Rifleman Specials + Beam Rifle Specials

You can't have the Beam Rifle use rifle specials and not have the T21 and Laser Rifle be able to use Beam Rifle Specials...the way the programming works won't allow that...I'm not saying that the Rifleman would use the Beam Rifle...they would use it's specials!!!!!

Bah, screw the Beam Rifle, change it to something that's actually seen in Star Wars. Make it something totally different. The line's screwed up enough as it is that we would lose nothing while they went and developed something that would ultiamtely be a lot better.

Why use the same boring formula for a weapon that another profession uses? We need to work on diversifying classes some. For example, why not scrap the HAR in favor of a repeater tree? Low damage, high speed, specials focussed on AE strafing/supression? Or perhaps the E-Web as a sort of device for suppressive/covering/sieging fire.

I'm not saying the beam rifle Idea is bad or anything, but by asking them to make a short, quick fix to the HAR like changing the HAR tree to beam rifle we could be loosing out in the long run. I'd rather wait a couple months and get a cool, new, useful tree than see a tree that's essentially a lesser clone of rifleman or a long range flamethrower now.

"the way the programming works won't allow that"

This is where you're wrong. Ill point you again to the HAR/Flamethrower. Both are under the 'heavy weapons' category, just like you say the beam, laser and t21 are under 'Rifles' categories. equip acid rifle, click flamesingle... it wont fire. Why? because, im sure, the game 'checks' to see what weapon you have equipped. even if its in the same classification.

So yes,

Beam Rifle = Beam Rifle Specials + Rifle Specials

--In this case, a commando can equip beam rifle and use headshot1 (marksman rifle) ..or if he's rifleman as well, use mind shot2.


T21 & Laser Rifle = Rifleman Specials + Beam Rifle Specials

-- In this case (and this equation of yours is a bit confusing), you saying that the t21 and laser should use the rifleman specials and beam rifle specials...because both are rifles. Ive already told you why this wont be the case.

The game checks the weapon equipped when you click to fire any special, not the weapon type thats equipped. Just like a pistoleer trying to fire a scatter pistol.. both use pistol specials, both ARE pistols... but the pistoleer without BH has no certification.. right there the game checks the weapon equipped, not the weapon type. See what I mean?

But imagine it this way...what if the HAR could use the flame specials...do you think the FT would then not be able to use the HAR specials...FT and the HAR have their own specials that don't inter-mix...if the HAR could use Flame Specials, then the way the programming is set up, the FT would have to be able to use the HAR specials...

Both are under the Heavy Weapons Category, but not considered the same weapon...The LP is considered a pistol, that's why it can use Pistol Specials...To use rifle specials the Beam Rifle would have to be considered a rifle...this would mean all it's specials would be considered Rifle specials...and if they are rifle specials then any rifle can use those specials...and that leads us to the T21 and Laser rifle being able to use any commando Beam rifle specials that come along (because they would be Rifle Specials)...

well, even if that was so, then what does that give riflemen?

the ability to lase with t21 and laser rifle? that does no damage.

the ability to do a single target damage for 2k maximum..or aoe for 1k max per target? remember, i said the damage done by the rifle damage attack specials is limited to 2k max in single and 1k max for aoe. using a t21 sliced for damage and powered up for damage will not change anything.

True about a rifleman using beam specials...the question would be why? But it does bring us back to your original arguement regarding stoping pistoleers from using the LP and us not using their specials...that would set a presidence...If we had a weapon that could use rifle specials, wouldn't Commando's consider using the T21 or Laser Rifle and the rifleman specials along with our own specials...that's just reversing the whole Pistoleer arguement.

To put it bluntly, based on part of your original proposal...make the LP a Commando only weapon with Commando only specials and not be able to use Pistoleer specials (which means hopefully our specials well be pretty good...like a knockdown)...but to add to that, make the Beam Rifle a Commando only weapon as well with Commando only specials, and not able to use other professions rifle specials. We should be our own class and able to rely on our own specials...self sufficent.

garvin, you must work in the same boring place i do to post at the same time

"To put it bluntly, based on part of your original proposal...make the LP a Commando only weapon with Commando only specials and not be able to use Pistoleer specials (which means hopefully our specials well be pretty good...like a knockdown)...but to add to that, make the Beam Rifle a Commando only weapon as well with Commando only specials, and not able to use other professions rifle specials. We should be our own class and able to rely on our own specials...self sufficent."

No. You see, the whole point is not to make thecommando have long and medium range, noncharged, weapons be as good or as effective as those of the carb/pist/riflemen...otherwise we'd be overpowered.

the LP would have the 5 second warcry shot and a 3X NORMAL damage shot (aka if pistol does 250 damage when fired without special, this shot would do 750) but has to wait 3 combat rounds. So its not doing more damage per second (compared to pistoleer doing 1200 damage per 2 seconds), but rather frontloading 3 shots in one.

And i say beam rifle should use rifle specials because of Cover. Perhaps this could be added to commando tree, but its just simpler to let the beam use rifle specials... for it also allows commando/riflemen to lase and get the accuracy bonuses of riflemen by it.

Oh, and on theLP not using pistolspecials is because the LP in the hands of a pistoleer = better than rocket launcher. Thats why.

LP using pistoleer specials >> commando rocket launcher AND LP using pistoleer specials>>pistoleer using any other marksman/pistoleer weapon.

beamrifle using rifle specials << t21/laser using rifle specials.

As things are now, for 'anti vehicle' stuff, the master pistoleer/novice commando outperforms a master commando.

It's possible...things occasionally have crazy periods, but mostly it's a sit and wait for something to do...lol...but hey, they pay well...

And i say beam rifle should use rifle specials because of Cover. Perhaps this could be added to commando tree, but its just simpler to let the beam use rifle specials... for it also allows commando/riflemen to lase and get the accuracy bonuses of riflemen by it.

What about adjusting our profession to give us (or rather the tree that Beam Rifle would fall under) the aspects you want from teh Rifleman profession (i.e. cover, etc) and the specials we'd need? That's one of the reasons I've pushed for a knockdown for the LP...Many people go for Smuggler or Pistoleer as a secondary for Commando so they can deal with anti-kiters...but if Commando had what they needed from those 2 professions, then we could invest our skill pts in other valuable places (like medic, etc). My ultimate goal is to see our profession able to stand on it's own and not need any other profession's assistance for any our specials or attack prowless...sure we could still better ourselves by dabbling, but I'd like to see us not have too and still be able to hold our own...not be some uber class, but be a well balanced fighting machine...That's why I support the idea if another profession has something we need, let's get something like it within our walls...

ah but grasshopper, the 'specials we need' must be related to our heavy weapons, otherwise theres no way to justify them.

ranged KD... imagine if we did get it. the cries and whines about commandos KD'ing and closing in to flamespecial range would go off the roof. Yes, we can do it now, as smugglers or carbineers...but we would have to spend the points for it... as we rightfully should to be ableto use the SPECIALTY attacks of otherproffessions.KD has nothing to do with our heavy weapons...in fact it would dramatically over power them... if I flamesingle2 a kamurith ill hit it for about 5k to 7k damage. knockdown and flame it as its KD'd, i do 12k damage.

If you want specials 'we need' they must be related to our role...read: our heavy weapon lines. We are not a ranged weapon combat class. explosives are our stuff. LASE helps us, warcry attack helps us, volley LP helps us, beam rifle gives us a slightly above marksman type ranged weapon capability, but nowhere close to the other classes that specialize in 1 weapon type.

"My ultimate goal is to see our profession able to stand on it's own and not need any other profession's assistance for any our specials or attack prowless...sure we could still better ourselves by dabbling, but I'd like to see us not have too and still be able to hold our own...not be some uber class, but be a well balanced fighting machine."

if this was the case, why be anything but commando? You see, 'well balanced' is what does not apply in this game. You cant have the commando have really good close-in weapons and good long range weapons with AOE ability.. because thats a lot better than a crap at close range, excellent at long range, single-target only proffession. The commando must remain interdependent with the other classes...just as they now depend on us for that flamecone saving all their arses when the group gets massively aggroed.

What you want is practically what im doing with my commando template: master TKA, commando 1/4/4/0,smuggler 0/0/4/0, rifleman 4/2/0/1... excellent firepower and abilities at literally any range. But I pay for it for not having medic nor scouting skills. If I could have abilities or specials 'close to those within the commando trees', i would spend those rifleman,smuggler and tka points into medic and scouting and become a TNT packin' BH groupie.

im a pistoleer/commando/smuggler.. and frankyl commando got the most fixing atttenition of any class period, because it was 100% nonfunctional for more than 2 months after release. launcher pistol gave pistol xp, guns didnt certify and if they did the range mods were bugged adn commandos had to craft their own grenades...

there are only 3 pistoleer skills that even do what they are supposed to right now, carbineers ham costs are like higher than the damage they do, and pikeman have major problems too, they deserve the love first man.