Commando Archive
Thread: For TH: How to Fix the Commando. Pass to Devs please?
Changes to commando trees, from left to right:
Grenades: Increase blast range of all grenades to 15m, +accuracy to throwing grenades increased to 30m. Make changes to weaponsmith schematics. Remove the need for SPECIFIC metals, grenades are extremely hard to find and make as it is.
Add effects.
C12=stun
C22=blind
Cryo=warcy1 effect
Glop=dizzy
imperial=random bleed
thermal=fire dot (50% as effective as a flamesingle1 dot)
proton=knockdown
(all effects affecting all targets hit in the blast area).
Heavy Weapons: Increase all heavy weapons to AP3. Increase max and min damage range of shoulder mounted heavy weapons by 50%.
Addfour 'aim' abilities to the commando skills: Health, Action and Mind and LASE aim. Commando clicks either of the 3 'aim' commands, goes in queue waiting for the 'firing' command, commando clicks heavy weapon of choice (say, HPBC), the weapon then fires and hits the specified ham bar.
Lase Aim is tied to Beam Rifle Special "LASE". Heavy Weapon shots fired under 'lase' aim will hit target with 100% accuracy regardless of range (0 or 64m).Heavy Weapon will hit random ham bar.SPD penalty on 'LASE' AIM : 2X weapon spd. To fire at target, commando must target the other commando that is lasing for him(aka, commando targets lasing commando,clicks on LASE AIM, clicks on HPBC of 4.0 spd to shoot, commando fires a shot at target the other commando is lasing, cannot fireagain for 8 seconds, regardless of weapon speed modifiers).
Flamethrower: Fire DOT should be affected by target's heat resists. Flamethrower should not fire out to 64m, but rather be limited to use the flame specials ONLY. Read: flamethrower does not fire until commando clicks flamespecials. See below for incorporation of HAR into Flamethrower tree.
HAR: Firstoff, remove the HAR from this tree and add it to the flamethrower line. Rename flamethrower tree to something more appropiate ('Short Range HeavyWeapons' perhaps?). Add ACTION dot to HAR specials, make it follow flamethrower changes stated above.
Rightmost Tree (now empty since no HAR): Add certification of Beam Rifle to this tree. This tree will have specials for both Launcher Pistol and Beam Rifle. (boxes 1 and3 have launcher pistol specials, box 2 and 4 have beam rifle specials). Beam Rifle can use rifle specials, but Launcher pistol CANNOT use pistol specials (to prevent pistoleers from getting access to commando LP, which is devastating with pistoleer mods).
Box1: 5 second warcry effect shot for launcher pistol. same rules as tka KD apply.
Box2: Beam Rifle LASE: non-damaging continous beam fires from rifle..lasts for 5 seconds. Lase guides heavy weapon shots to target.
Box3: Launcher pistol 'volley'. similar to smuggler's dirty fighting box4, the LP will fire a shot thats 3x normal damage but will leave commando paying penalty of 3X spd of weapons (aka, fires the 3 shots in 1 shot damage-wise but has to wait 2 more combat rounds before being able to shoot again).
box4: Beam rifle fires a continous beam from any range that does 2k max damage. continous beam lasts for 2 combat rounds, commando then takes 2 more combat rounds 'cooldown' timer.
Master Commando Tree:
Add +1000 accuracy to launcher pistol (weapon is described as having target homing projectiles, so make master commando give the commando a weapon that has only 2 specialsbut that never misses)
Beam Rifle gets a special similar to box4 but hits everything 10m radius of target., damage is reduced to 1k per target.
This way the commando receives 'normal' ranged weapons (beam rifle, launcher pistol)with specials that are in no way competitive with carbineer/rifleman/pistoleer in specials or damage (they are outdamaged in both normal shots and specials) but that serve the commando's purposes (LP's warcry is good for closing into 16m and not take as much incoming fire, LP volley deals 3X damage but leaves commando helpless for 3X weapon spd, beam rifle is really underpowered special wise and normal shot-wise compared to rifleman (especially in accuracy, commando uses only master marksman rifle/pistolaccuracy mods)...but who'se specials are integrated with another commando weapon (LASE) and who'se damage dealing specials are underpowered compared to a rifleman's lowest special BUT can be AOE in effect.
A proffession that can support groups using grenades (adding AOE effects and some damage), that can take down its intended targets efficiently (atsts, vehicles) because they finally can aim for a ham bar (and honestly, in pvp if you get hit by any heavy weapon you die in 1 shot (IF IT HITS..BIG IF) regardless of what ham bar it hits, so vs other players the 50% and AP3 changesnothing)... and a proffession that has close quarter, heavy damage weapons to support their group or assault targets (they do that now, so no change there except for acid rifle action dot).
I agree with the Grenade suggestions...except I would add, increase the pack amounts from 5 to at least 25 or more preferably 50.
Heavy weapons would be better valued if they had AP3...right now, each shot is to expensive to do the damage that they do (when they actually connect).
Flamethrower: Fire DOT should be affected by target's heat resists. Flamethrower should not fire out to 64m, but rather be limited to use the flame specials ONLY. Read: flamethrower does not fire until commando clicks flamespecials. See below for incorporation of HAR into Flamethrower tree.
I agree with the first part...heat resists should be accounted for....But I disagree with the rest...this game is not our RW...so I think the Flamethrower shoudl fire out to 64m...but I don't think it's specials should...they should be increased from the 16m they are now to atleast 32m...If the Dev's say we are a ranged professions, give us good ranged abilities...and the FT is our best weapon...So unless the HAR is going to get some serious love and become our Ranged weapon, I wouldn't even bring this one up...otherwise why not just make a Melee Class again...
HAR: Firstoff, remove the HAR from this tree and add it to the flamethrower line. Rename flamethrower tree to something more appropiate ('Short Range HeavyWeapons' perhaps?). Add ACTION dot to HAR specials, make it follow flamethrower changes stated above.
Agree with mergingthe FT and HAR Trees...but if the FT isn't going to have ranged specials, it would be nice if this one did....We don't need both a Flame Dot and an Acid Dot...that's to repeatitious and only would be valuable if acid weakenesses comes into play (same story as heat resistence I think)...I would forgo the idea of Acid Dot in exchange for ranged specials for this weapon...not as powerful a weapon as the FT, but works weall at range...I'd actually use it...OR...instead of a dot, make the dot a stat eater...not just lower the Ham, but actually do stat damage with each hit...as in, acid hit eats the opponents hand off...lol...the key is, don't make the HAR a weaker clone of the FT...make it it's own unique weapon with unique strengths and weakenesses...otherwise, what's the point of having the FT and the HAR (besides resistences)?
Rightmost Tree (now empty since no HAR): Add certification of Beam Rifle to this tree. This tree will have specials for both Launcher Pistol and Beam Rifle. (boxes 1 and3 have launcher pistol specials, box 2 and 4 have beam rifle specials). Beam Rifle can use rifle specials, but Launcher pistol CANNOT use pistol specials (to prevent pistoleers from getting access to commando LP, which is devastating with pistoleer mods).
Kind of a 2 way street...sure pistoleers can be devastating with the LP and pistoleer mods, but what's to stop us from getting some Pistoleer skills of our own to combat this as a secondary profession...also would this just create the same arguement from a different point...if it actually changed this way, what's to stop Rifleman from getting the Beam Rifle and devastating us with rifle specials? I like the fact that the LP can use Pistol specials, but I think it would be better if we had our own specials for this weapon and didn't havet o rely on anyone else...our about our weapons have specials that only we can do...
I agree with several of your other points, but I'm eager to see what other's think as well...that's why it's taken me so long to reply to this post...
The resistance and grenade ideas are good, but I'd recomend changing the HAR tree (after merging HAR into FT tree perhaps) to a tree focussed on something like the E-Web, Repeater, or Concusion Rifle. We are in desperate need of candid Star Wars guns.
Now, the launcher pistol issue is another matter. Yes, nothing can stop you from getting pistoleer... but then again, itd be stupid for you to have to up another proffession so you can use your own proffessions's weapons efficiently isnt it?. Kinda like a BH having to take up pistoleer and carbineer so they can compete with pistoleers and carbineers.. but they dont because BH pistol and carbine provide excellent specials and mods. In my suggestion, the master commando would be getting a 100% accurate gun..that has specials which are far inferior to pistoleer and BH and even smuggler. Our advantage is we wont miss. (at master commando title only).
ACID RIFLE "otherwise, what's the point of having the FT and the HAR (besides resistences)". Thats the whole point actually. Once the flamer dot becomes affected by heat resists, you will *really* like the fact that the HAR is there for you. Especially when that rancor is chewing up your teammates.
"if it actually changed this way, what's to stop Rifleman from getting the Beam Rifle and devastating us with rifle specials?"
Show me a rifleman that will pick the beam rifle over a laser rifle or T21 and ill show you a true idiot. Beam rifle has roughly the same stats as a Tusken Rifle, except much better accuracy. The only thing a rifleman will do with a beam rifle is look like a commando and shoot a low-end damage (compared to laser and t21) rifle with better accuracy than a commando ever will.
I like your idea of increasing grenade pack charges.. 5 indeed is too little..but then again, I think grenade accuracy mods are as broken as the HARS and thats why we miss so much.
Show me a rifleman that will pick the beam rifle over a laser rifle or T21 and ill show you a true idiot. Beam rifle has roughly the same stats as a Tusken Rifle, except much better accuracy. The only thing a rifleman will do with a beam rifle is look like a commando and shoot a low-end damage (compared to laser and t21) rifle with better accuracy than a commando ever will.
Ok then...let's take it the opposite way...if the beam rifle can use rifle specials, then to better use the beam rifle a commando would dabble in rifleman....but then, wouldn't a Commando be an idiot for not using the T21 or Laser Rifleif they have the cert and specials...what's the point of the beam rifle then and would commando's actually use it over the T21 or Laser Rifle. Would be setting up Commando's for another weapon rarely used?
no garvin. the beam rifle is there not to be a competition to other prof's weapon trees. Do you think itd be fair to make the beam rifle as powerful as a rifleman's t21? No.
The beam is there to give the commando a long range weapon that has commando specials: the LASE and the single/aoe continous beam shot.
if a commando dabbles in rifleman, he would be an idiot to use the beam over the t21 to use rifleman specials. he would benefit from the increased accuracy and speed only, but not damage if he uses the beam rifle.
as far as setting up the commando for another weapon rarely used: If the flamer and acid rifle quit being 64m weapons and become 16m weapons only (as i suggest they become), then you would need a long and mid-range weapon. If we didnt have these 2, then the commando would be stuck using marksman weapons and skills... which puts us in a severe disadvantage. The beam rifle and LP specials I suggest are designed to give the commando long and midrange ability which do not compete with the proffessions that specialize in rifle or pistol, but does give the commando utility to help him use his specialty weapons (LASE, warcry shot) and also can provide firepower a bit above the normal marksman range by using the LP volley and Beam's damage specials.
I see what your saying tacwraith...I'm just offering up opposite sides of the arguement...things that the Dev's are going to consider when looking at the possibilities...
In all honesty, the Dev's like quick and easy...they have proved this in the past...and have unforunately said also that they have no future plans of merging or adding any new tree's to Commando (but we can still dream and push for it)...
When it comes to an easy way to get short and long range, why don't we use what's already there...Keep FT as a Short Ranged weapon (let it still fire and long range, but the specials work at short)...and Make the Acid Rifle work at Long Range with new Long Range specials different then the Flame Thrower...to balance it, no dot (which of course it doesn't have anyway)...Then the HAR would become it's own weapon and not just a clone of the FT...If this weapon is going to stay in existence it needs a reason to live...otherwise the Dev's should just trash the Acid Rifle and give us something else...How many Solo Commanos use the Acid Rifle on a regular basis if ever?
I think we are both missing part of each other's arguement...so let me restate part of your arguement to see if I have it right...You wanta Beam Rifle to be pumped up for us with it own commando long range specials...and you want it to be able to use rifle specials...is that right?
Beam Rifle can use rifle specials, but Launcher pistol CANNOT use pistol specials (to prevent pistoleers from getting access to commando LP, which is devastating with pistoleer mods).
You stated in an early arguement that the LP just incourages Pistoleers to dabble in Commando to get the cert...My arguement is if go with a weapon for Commando's that uses Rifle specials aren't you just reversing that effect...encouraging Commando's to dabble in the Rifleman profession (so they can have MORE specials for the Beam Rifle)...and if they do, you have stated that the T21 is a much better weapon then the Beam Rifle, so why would a Commando who dabbles in Rifleman use the Beam Rifle? And if we have our own specials for our Beam Rifle that Rifleman don't, won't rifleman then come and dabble in our profession to get them (if we can use rifle specials with the Beam Rifle, then They can use the Beam Rifle Commando Specials with their weapon...it would have to go both ways)...Wouldn't we be trading Pistoleer dabbling for Rifleman Dabbling?
My suggestion is just a quick an easy one...upgrade the HAR...give it long range specials and AP...then we'll have a short ranged weapon, a long ranged weapon and we can then focus on getting LP specials...who cares where those go...how about Field Tactics...The odds of us getting a new tree are pretty bleak to be honest...although I'd still love to see it happen.
"You stated in an early arguement that the LP just incourages Pistoleers to dabble in Commando to get the cert...My arguement is if go with a weapon for Commando's that uses Rifle specials aren't you just reversing that effect...encouraging Commando's to dabble in the Rifleman profession (so they can have MORE specials for the Beam Rifle)...and if they do, you have stated that the T21 is a much better weapon then the Beam Rifle, so why would a Commando who dabbles in Rifleman use the Beam Rifle? And if we have our own specials for our Beam Rifle that Rifleman don't, won't rifleman then come and dabble in our profession to get them (if we can use rifle specials with the Beam Rifle, then They can use the Beam Rifle Commando Specials with their weapon...it would have to go both ways)...Wouldn't we be trading Pistoleer dabbling for Rifleman Dabbling"
A powerful argument. Here's my reason: Pistoleers gain a better weapon by using the launcher pistol. Riflemen gain a worse rifle by taking up the beam rifle... and theyd spend a heck of a lot of points just toget it.. considering headshot1 withT21is better in damage than the beam damage specials.And no, only the beam rifle can be used to do the beam specials, just like HAR cant use flamer specials even though they the same stupid attack minus dot.
From the commando's side,if commando dabbles in rifleman then yeah, he gets to use the t21 and such...just like rifleman taking commando gets to use our novice commando weapons. But commando would be foolish to use rifleman specials with beam rifle when he can get the t21.
Now, the pistoleer issue is that the LP not only provides better damage and damage type, making them as effective anti-vehicle, blast vulnerable damagetargets if not better than commandos(yes, ive seen pistoleers kill atsts with LP and stopping shot). Then there's the smoke/explosion FPS dropping issue.. its annoying enough to have a commando doing mediocre damage and spamming smoke and other FPS killing stuff... then you see a master pistoleer/novice commando doing almost 2k damage per shot AND killing everyone's frame rates... and you suddenly feel your scrotum stroking the back of your throat in terror.
I agree on a change needing to be made to the Grenades and HAR. Now I'm going to think like a programmer right now; so implimenting all this, with the team they have would be tough. Let's all as Commando's start off small. Get the HAR Fixed and maybe an addition to it *AP2 or some sort of Chemical Burn Dot* and make the Grenades useable.... I blow myself up more than anything else lol.
But having grenades with secondary effects would definetly be cool. I'll have to re-read the descriptions of all the Grenades to see if shuffling might be a good idea; I like to make sure everything's in order in everything I do, no matter how small hehe. But all in all good psot.
From the commando's side,if commando dabbles in rifleman then yeah, he gets to use the t21 and such...just like rifleman taking commando gets to use our novice commando weapons. But commando would be foolish to use rifleman specials with beam rifle when he can get the t21.
Sorry...I don't think I was very clear on one point...I didn't mean that the Rifleman would use the Beam Rifle at all...they'd still stick with the T21...but what they might do, if we have our own Beam Rifle specials, is dabble in Commando to get those specials to use with the T21...If the Beam Rifle would be able to use Rifle Specials, then the T21 would end up being able to use Commando Rifle Specials...it would end up working both ways from a programming stand point (classification)...just like the LP can use pistol specials, if we had our own LP specials, then pistoleers could use them with their pre-nerf FWG5's (as long as the LP was consider a pistol...which i understand you want changed)...
If we had our own rifle specials for the Beam Rifle, what's to stop rifleman from dabbling in commando to get those specials to use with the T21...With the right power-ups, the FWG5 can be more worthwhile then the LP (spd makes up for damage)...my pre-nerf FWG5 does 396 damage (with a power-up) and has a sped of .8....so for me, it's more useful then the LP.Some Post patch pistoleers may want the LP, but I doubt the majority of pistoleers would be willing to master marksman and unarmed just to get novice commando to use the LP...I could be wrong, but it seems like a waste of skill points just to get Novice Commando when they could spend pts more wisely...
no, because the commando beam rifle special will only work with the beam rifle. Ill say it again, its just like the HAR/Flamer specials. Both are heavy weapons. Both have the same exact attacks, minus dots. Yet you press acid cone when holding a flamer and it wont work.
and yes, i want the LP changed away from pistol specials. the commando should not be able to healthshot with it (its sick.. healthshot1, healthshot2, firesingle2,flamecone2). LP should be considered a heavy weapon too.