Commando Archive
Thread: THUNDERHEART & GARVIN : Whats the Deal ? 1 Master Swordsman outdamages 5 Master Commandos!?!
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SuperTurbo
Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:20 pm
#14
I would gladly trade all my defense from having TKA, and having to use the full 250sp to have our weapons being AP>1.
We are soldiers, and we are not afraid to die, knowing we can severly cripple/take down our targets.
Knightcrest
Wed Aug 04, 2004 5:24 pm
#15
StarNick wrote:
Look...Swordsmen's Phammers have medium AP...and half the damage of the FT usually....I've seen some masters doing 12k worth of dmg in 4 or so seconds against stuff that isnt resisted...and they're a 92 pt profession....how Can commandos getting AP1 on our FT and firing faster, hence being approx double the damage be overpowered? WE TAKE NEARLY TWICE THE SKILLPOINTS!!!! That is totally fair! Not to mention this is AP increase and Speed...NOT accuracy....
Want fuel for that fire?
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=setandget&tp=63735&poll_id=0&category_id=20&warned=y
This is me a couple months ago using a 800ish max powerhammer with a p-up,not so uncommon anymore if you have the credits.... not even my old exceptional one. I didn't use a timer on chat logs back then, but I was at the speed cap just for informations sake.
My guildmate was a master pistoleer/master commando.... he opened his with a rocket shot and went to the LP. I downed two turrets to his one on that base with a master commando/master swordsman temp. Sad huh?
*edit* I only used swordsman on the turrets, no rockets, 'nades or LP
Message Edited by Knightcrest on 08-04-2004 05:26 PM
Nuke67
Wed Aug 04, 2004 5:30 pm
#16
""Because they are already powerful enough...adding AP would just make them overly powerful"
I am one of those that don't see the logic in this, Heavy Weapons in all other games are made to pierce armor, now I can live with the flamethower not being AP and just the speed increase, but I think the launcher pistol and the heavy rocketlauncher should be at least medium AP, both rocket firing and most rockets in war have to be AP to pierce armored vehicles so it would make since, it's like having a anti-tank weapon without any AP on it, not going to be very effective.
I sometimes think the Devs do think on the Everquest level, and why swordsmans etc all seem to outdamage range professions, I do wonder if LucasArts had actually programmed this game and just let SOE host it , would it have been completely different and Commando's would be the killer profession for PVP.
Thanks though Garvin for bringing issues up like this and nagging the hell out of them about it, maybe showing them a few screenshots of Commando's getting owned by melee professions might influence them a bit and remindthem in reality blasters would tear though melee like tissue paper,(my biggest pet peeve in this game note the sig)..
Vagrantprodigy
Wed Aug 04, 2004 6:27 pm
#17
The HAR absolutely should be AP2. The LP wouldn't matter so much, since it really isn't a commando weapon, and it's biggest use is against turrets and ATSTs, who are vulnerable to blast anyhow. The flamethrower should be kept at AP0.
inlord
Wed Aug 04, 2004 8:13 pm
#18
I feal your pain i feal it. it runs deep . I cant even explain how mad that story made me.
Phalx
Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:32 pm
#19
If all of the non-commandos are afraid that our weapons will be too powerful if they have increased AP, why not instead, then, lower the heat resists of high-end targets?
Most high-end PvE targets are at least 60% heat resist. Many are 100%.
Composite armor can be layered to hit 80% resists.
On top of that, we can't target a specific HAM pool at all. I think we're the only combat prof unable to target a specific pool?
I just really fail to see what the problem is here on the Devs part. This is all such a no-brainer. Its a slap in the face of every commando.
Electro5
Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:52 am
#20
If they are worried about us becomming too powerful with initial hits with AP, then what about something like this:
Lower the damage mods or damage on a FT and HAR to the point that if you were to add AP to it, it would do the same damage it does now to an un-armored and unresisted target. So, the FT would be AP1, but the damage would be lowered so that against an unarmored target, figuring in the AP, it would do as much as it usually does (lets say about 12k damage high end). I don't think the HAR needs to be weakened any more than it is, just given AP2 at least. HAR does on average half of what the FT can do, and at a much higher HAM cost, and with no DoT. It needs to be much improved, and AP2 would give it just the power increase it needs.
RankorCity
Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:03 am
#21
Not really sure if its been touched on, but I am going to say it anyway...
You can have 20 commandos in a group, and probably wont outdamage that Master Swordsman. You can have 40 in a group, and still not outdamage my Master Rifleman, who is speed capped, and using an average T21 using SS2...I routinely outdamage grouped MCM/MR/MS/whatever, with my equipment.
Why?
Because the total damage done by the group doesnt matter. Its the ONE person that does the most damage that gets the loot rights for the group...
A commando spamming flamesingle2 doing 4K damage every 2-3 seconds (even with a DoT) has no chance against me when I can do 4K damage every second...And thats just an average for me, and probably on the low side.
What it came down do, is that Master Swordsman outdamaged the highest damage dealer in your group.
Sucks...but thats the way it is.
jason67
Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:55 am
#22
Knightcrest wrote:
Question.... I see poison on the acklay. Quite possible that the Swordsman was a CM as well with mind poison a,b,c stackedon him. Poison doesn't count towards xp but it sure counts towards looting rights. If that were the case, it should be no shocker that he/she/it out damaged you. They were wailing away as the poison ticked... some of the poisons may have been ticking harder than they were hitting through the 40% kinetic prots.
In no way do I say this should be the case as one person with any mastered class should be able to outdamage 5 master commandos. I do hope they get us fixed one day to actually be the damage dealers we should be or else give us more speed and defense. Sorry this happened to you, but don't let it spoil your making plans to help make events for your guild. You are using a guild as it was meant to be, not just as a place to leach off of for credits or items. A group of players with similar interests getting together to have fun. Good luck to ya.
If these two points were already addressed then I apologize but I didn't want to continue reading and forget to post a response to these. If the Acklay was poisoned it was from a weapon and not from a CM. I have a Master CM as one of my alt's and you can NOT poison or disease the acklay or any of the enhanced animals down in the acklay caves. As for the second part CM has been nerfed worse than commando's at this point and are due for another. Not only have they capped speed and removed xp for CM's but their damage does not count towards loot rights either. I did 2-3times the damage on a DJM as anyone else there and still did not get the loot. I have poisons(2 diff poisons) that tick for over 2300damage, not only did I use those poisons but two more poisons on top of them to stack and I also diseased all 3 pools. Everyone else there was attacking random pools and not only did I diseases all the pools but had a total of about 4k ticking away on the DJM.
On a side note my main is currently a master swordsman and a speed capped swordsman will hit specials every second. Assuming he was using a good scythe 400-450max damage that could hit for up to about 5k damage on a normal NPC, meaning it should hit for about 1k damage on the acklay roughly. That's 1k damage per second. If it takes you guys 5 sec's to spam specials at 2500damage then you are only doing 500dps each where he is doing 1000dps(assuming he's speed capped). He doesn't actually have to beat all 5 of you. He only has to outdamage the person in your group doing the most damage in order to take loot rights. Since there were 5 of you I would assume you actually did more total damage(but on all 3 pools instead of focused on one) but he did more damage than any single person in your group. Perhaps someday SOE will fix the speed and perhaps even make the tapes work for commando's but I stopped holding my breath long ago.
LuciusScipio
Thu Aug 05, 2004 10:51 am
#23
gah. I don't have anything useful to say but only my heartfelt support and disappointment over what you went through. Hopefully, we will get the recommendations that Garvin is sending to the devs because we need desperately need it.
StarNick
Thu Aug 05, 2004 11:04 pm
#24
Vagrent wrote:
The HAR absolutely should be AP2. The LP wouldn't matter so much, since it really isn't a commando weapon, and it's biggest use is against turrets and ATSTs, who are vulnerable to blast anyhow. The flamethrower should be kept at AP0.
Two Things:
1) AP -must- be factored into the damage count, EVEN if vuln...this NEEDS to be addressed
2) Agreed, the LP really isnt a commando weapon....hence why a while back I proposed it to be tied into HW mods and specials...and make it more into a portable hand-held hvy weapon (heh contradictory i know). If the LP got Med AP or Light AP...and very destructive specials on par with swordsman...Pistoleers are going to be the new might in BOTH PvP and PvE...
Imagine Master Pistoleers simply taking the tree that will have the LP skills if the gun is seriously beefed up..but still retaining pistol mods....It'll be like a ranged swordsman....
Which also just reminds me...one of the biggest problems with both hybrids are the Specialization...its too easy for other professions to simply dabble into Commando or BH now just to pick up the pistol or carbine or -if in the future- LP trees....meanwhile all other combat professions, if you take up a certain tree and not the other...its either defenses, speed, or accuracy you're going to have to forfeit. For commandos and BH, there is no such penality (and maybe why the devs fear us being beefed up considerably)
Also getting back onto topic....we should also get an AR or Launcher Rifle...a more commando-like weapon than the LP... (keep the LP as is...make Ap1....by the LR/AR the true working horse of the profession)
Nuke67
Fri Aug 06, 2004 12:11 am
#25
And pretty sad for a game based on Star Wars, antique weapons outdamaging rocket launchers and energy weapons, again I think they should have hired programmers who never worked on a fantasy role playing game, and ones that worked on games with furturistic weapons so they would better understand that medievelweapons are not going to overpower modern or futuristic type energy weapons, my guildmate said it best "Pretty sad when you packing a flame thrower and I can defeat you with a club" LOL..
RankorCity wrote:
A commando spamming flamesingle2 doing 4K damage every 2-3 seconds (even with a DoT) has no chance against me when I can do 4K damage every second...And thats just an average for me, and probably on the low side.
What it came down do, is that Master Swordsman outdamaged the highest damage dealer in your group.
Sucks...but thats the way it is.
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