Commando Archive
Thread: THUNDERHEART & GARVIN : Whats the Deal ? 1 Master Swordsman outdamages 5 Master Commandos!?!
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GankByEwoks
Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:13 pm
#1
Commandos put away your Cannons and pick up Kitchen Knives..
As angry and as frustrated as I am right now, I will keep this civil and flame free..
The Commando profession was robbed awhile ago of its ability to fight in PVP, andtho it sadden me to see this,I accepted the bitter pill because I figured that the Commando Professionwould still be the KING of the PvE arena. Sadly it appears we commandos have been robbed of that too.
Heres the deal..
On the Radiant server I lead an all Imperial, all Commando unit known as the 101st Galactic Brigade.Our mission is to hopefully learn howto work togther in team tactics so that when the GCW revamp takes place, we can be a essential addition to the Empire in large scale battles. So with that said, I take several of my guys to the Geonosian Cave in effort to work on there skills in covering each other and following orders. They do really good, we make our way through thecaves without much worry from any of the nasties insideand barely get scratched up. We do so good in fact that we make our way into the Acklay room in less then 15 -20 minutes.
Upon entering the Acklay Room, we notice a Master Swordsman sitting in the corner of the room, he doesnt help us or talk to us as we fight off the last of the nasties still in our way. As we patiently for the Acklay to appear, I go over some last secondinstructions withmy team. We form up in a firing squadformation, standing side by side, and we get ready to useHeavy Lighting Cannons ( the consumable one)on the Acklay which appears tobe its weakestdefense30% resistelectricity. The Lighting cannons I outfitted my team with do approx 2500 pts of dmg on the average. Doing some quick math thats 125,000 pts of damage every volley my guys shoot! Firing the cannon takes roughly 5 seconds.. Sounds like serious firepower right ?
Well get this, the Acklay spawns, Mr. Swordsman now decides he is gonna get off hit butt and do something. I give the order for my guys to "Fire" and it is on ! All of my guys are Master Commandos and got their act togther, shot after shot we are meeting the above numbers and sometimes even a bit over, scoring sometimes into the mid 3000's. Then here comes Mr. Swordsman, he is using a Scythe Blade, and spamming scalp slam. The Acklay has 40% resist to Kinetic. Not only does he walk right up to the Acklay and startsdoing theusual spam spam spam,he clearly starts winning the fight. Now its hard to lead any kind of team in battle and keep them alive, but when you are a commando and think you EARNED the right to be a bad a.ss , it hurts even more when a guy with a butter knife is out damaging every guy in your team. I tell 2 of my guys to break formation and put a flame dot on it for extra measure. They do it..Nope.. The fightis stillgoingto the Swordsman, he out damages the team of 5 Master Commandos , 3 : 1 in damage.In simple terms he is doing as much dmg as 15 Master Commandos !!
For anyone that doubts my claims I took a photo, which is listed below..
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=104314
The Swordsman solo focused on the mind bar with the usual spam mind,spam mind,spam mindthat has become commonin PvP and now is trickling into PvE. While unfortunaly us commandos arent granted the luxary ofbeing allowed to focus on one bar.
After it was all said and done, my team watched as theSwordsman took all the loot for himself and ran off laughing.The verynotion that a guyrunning up to a creature likethe Acklay with nothing but a kitchen knife andoutdamaging a entire unit of Commandos who are sporting the most expensive and( thought were themost powerful )heavy weapons in the galaxymade me want to walk away from this game for good.
The disgust I feel right now for this game is unbelievable, for anyone that knows what it is like to lead othersin some sort ofplayer eventand have them follow your commands, it hurts deeply when you see them not having fun, not because any fault of your own , but because SOE doesnt have there act togther and something like a combat inbalance or system bug, ruins everybody's fun and drains your energy as a person to want to setup more player events in the future.
To the Commando Community I give a /salute to all those that are not following the trend of those that are the Flavors of the Month ( FOTMs ) who run around trying to be the most uber from patch to patch.
Tomy follow teammates in the 101st Galactic Brigade, Igive a /salutefor once again following me into battle, I am sorry things didnt turn out the way we all expected and tho we didnt get any loot from the Acklay , we gained a wealth of experience, in learning to work togther as a team.
To Garvin , its business as usual, take this story to the Developers and file it under Commando Sob story # 14,661,633,121. I know you have been a excellent correspondent and have worked with Commando Community onthe constant state of lameness we commandos are forced to endure. Hopefully one day some developer will pull the corporate wax from his / her ears and fix something around here.
To Thunder Heart and the rest of the Dev team, I ask that you finally put things into perspective, I dont know what you guys do to figure out combatnumbers, or what sort ofrules you use to balance combat as a whole, but one thing is for sure, a guy with a kitchen knife should not be able to out damage 5 guys with cannons.. So when all else fails with this whole Combat Revamp thing, I hope some where common sense will come into play. If common sense doesnt fancy you, then WATCH THE STAR WARSMOVIES! The Acklay snapped the spear Obi wan used against it into two peices, your gonna tell me a guy with a edge weapon gonna do much better ?
On a final note I took several screen shots of the combat log, to sum it up breifly, the Swordsman was hitting the Ackaly for roughly 1000 points of dmg every couple of seconds to the mind bar, while my guys were doing 2500 points approx. every4 seconds to all the Ham Bars. In the end we barely scratched the damn thing..
- GANK BY EWOKS
Breatai
Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:25 pm
#2
Sounds like the MBH and MC are in the same boat...welcome to Nerftown...
garvin
Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:29 pm
#3
Sorry you had such a bad experience...and trust me, I've brought up the DPS (damage per second)capabilities of Swordsmen and Riflemen a lot in comparison with us...
In a long thread over in the Correspondent forum many of us kicked around possible fixes leading up to the Combat Revamp...When the Combat Revamp finally hits, our being outdamaged is suppose to be address and put to rest...but prior to that we need a boost...
Out of all of the ideas proposed by various correspondents, the best one was adding more Speed to our Flame Thrower skill mods...By giving us more speed, we reduce our delay time inbetween specials...and by reducing the delay time, it means we hit faster and there for increases our DPS...By increasing our DPS we'll better compete with professions like Swordsmen and Riflemen...things won't be perfect, but they'll be much much better...
That's why I'm strongly pushing for +30 Flame Thrower Speed be added to our Master Commando box...I choose Master Commando because not only will it give us a boost we need, but it will also finally help make a noticable difference between Master Commandos and Flame Tree Dabblers (there is nothing wrong with dabbling...but there should be a difference)...This change will take our delay from 8 to 10 seconds and decrease it down to around 4 to 5 seconds...it will just about double our the rate we do specials, which will really come into play for those higer level NPCs...
And the coolest part, the majority of other Correspondents support this idea...they agree that things are unbalanced and this would be very helpful to us Commandos while we wait for the Revamp...Now the goal is to get the Devs to hear us and act...I've sent each of them this request as well as posted frequently...
This is not meant to be "THE" fix we've been waiting for...It's more meant to be a shot in the arm...something good to help us wait for the rest of our fixes...I was hoping to have some feedback on this by now (been pushing for it for over 2 weeks now) but TH and the rest of the Devs have been super busy...so I will go on pushing until I get feedback and hopefully see it implimented...
PS...I'm also pushing for this speed increase with the HAR as well...I know most of us don't use the HAR much, but I figured it couldn't hurt to ask as it occasionally does come in handy...
Ster
Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:31 pm
#4
What a terrible incident and I completely agree with you. Hopefully at some point it will get adressed.
Quevey
Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:31 pm
#5
that musta been 1 hell of a blade to outdamage 7 people.
btw i saw a novice commando tag but still thats wild.
TK-132
Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:37 pm
#6
Lol that's nothing, well this story is pretty bad too. I'm at one Reb base getting the usual fp (Something I don't like doing, sadly the only real way to get fp without doing a thousand missions) and along comes an Imperial novice BH how says you want a friendly and I say sure, but I can't gurantee my Dot won't kill you. He says ok but for safe measure we fight by the water. I thought this should be easy, I mean he's a novice I'm a master. Both of us buffed with comp and mind buffs I still lost to him. I hit him once and the flame Dot barely wounded him before he got to the water. He easliy took me down with 8 or 9 eye shots or so and I missed almost all of my flamesingles. So I thought he got lucky so I used my moun gold in the next round, didn't do much except suspend the fight for maybe another 25 seconds. I felt so bad that day. You know things are wack when somethin like that happens.
GankByEwoks
Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:42 pm
#7
Yeah my team mate didnt switch it over to Master, but trust me all of them are Masters...
Quevey wrote:
that musta been 1 hell of a blade to outdamage 7 people.
btw i saw a novice commando tag but still thats wild.
- Gank By Ewoks
Knightcrest
Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:50 pm
#8
Question.... I see poison on the acklay. Quite possible that the Swordsman was a CM as well with mind poison a,b,c stackedon him. Poison doesn't count towards xp but it sure counts towards looting rights. If that were the case, it should be no shocker that he/she/it out damaged you. They were wailing away as the poison ticked... some of the poisons may have been ticking harder than they were hitting through the 40% kinetic prots.
In no way do I say this should be the case as one person with any mastered class should be able to outdamage 5 master commandos. I do hope they get us fixed one day to actually be the damage dealers we should be or else give us more speed and defense. Sorry this happened to you, but don't let it spoil your making plans to help make events for your guild. You are using a guild as it was meant to be, not just as a place to leach off of for credits or items. A group of players with similar interests getting together to have fun. Good luck to ya.
GankByEwoks
Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:57 pm
#9
garvin wrote:
Sorry you had such a bad experience...and trust me, I've brought up the DPS (damage per second)capabilities of Swordsmen and Riflemen a lot in comparison with us...
In a long thread over in the Correspondent forum many of us kicked around possible fixes leading up to the Combat Revamp...When the Combat Revamp finally hits, our being outdamaged is suppose to be address and put to rest...but prior to that we need a boost...
Out of all of the ideas proposed by various correspondents, the best one was adding more Speed to our Flame Thrower skill mods...By giving us more speed, we reduce our delay time inbetween specials...and by reducing the delay time, it means we hit faster and there for increases our DPS...By increasing our DPS we'll better compete with professions like Swordsmen and Riflemen...things won't be perfect, but they'll be much much better...
That's why I'm strongly pushing for +30 Flame Thrower Speed be added to our Master Commando box...I choose Master Commando because not only will it give us a boost we need, but it will also finally help make a noticable difference between Master Commandos and Flame Tree Dabblers (there is nothing wrong with dabbling...but there should be a difference)...This change will take our delay from 8 to 10 seconds and decrease it down to around 4 to 5 seconds...it will just about double our the rate we do specials, which will really come into play for those higer level NPCs...
And the coolest part, the majority of other Correspondents support this idea...they agree that things are unbalanced and this would be very helpful to us Commandos while we wait for the Revamp...Now the goal is to get the Devs to hear us and act...I've sent each of them this request as well as posted frequently...
This is not meant to be "THE" fix we've been waiting for...It's more meant to be a shot in the arm...something good to help us wait for the rest of our fixes...I was hoping to have some feedback on this by now (been pushing for it for over 2 weeks now) but TH and the rest of the Devs have been super busy...so I will go on pushing until I get feedback and hopefully see it implimented...
PS...I'm also pushing for this speed increase with the HAR as well...I know most of us don't use the HAR much, but I figured it couldn't hurt to ask as it occasionally does come in handy...
Garvin thanks for responding back in a timely manner..
Tho I am glad you are pusing for this speed increase, I hope that you continue to remind ThunderHeart and the rest of the dev team that this should certainly not be the end all to fixing the profession before the combat revamp takes place.
Increase Accuracy Mods for the Heavy Weapons
Damage Increase for theLauncher Pistol
Increase Speed for the Heavy Acid Rifle
Increase Charges andRadiusfor Grenades
Lower HAM across the board for using Commando weapons
Add Knock Down andStun to allGrenades
If these things are done before theJump to LightspeedGarvin then yes that will be the shot in the arm we need to get things on track for the combat revamp.
- Gank By Ewoks
Message Edited by GankByEwoks on 08-04-2004 02:58 PM
GankByEwoks
Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:01 pm
#10
Knightcrest , we thought that too, but actually it was the spiders in the room, they were bugged ( go figure ) and arrgoed onto the Acklay and it end up poisoning him.
Knightcrest wrote:
Question.... I see poison on the acklay. Quite possible that the Swordsman was a CM as well with mind poison a,b,c stackedon him. Poison doesn't count towards xp but it sure counts towards looting rights. If that were the case, it should be no shocker that he/she/it out damaged you. They were wailing away as the poison ticked... some of the poisons may have been ticking harder than they were hitting through the 40% kinetic prots.
In no way do I say this should be the case as one person with any mastered class should be able to outdamage 5 master commandos. I do hope they get us fixed one day to actually be the damage dealers we should be or else give us more speed and defense. Sorry this happened to you, but don't let it spoil your making plans to help make events for your guild. You are using a guild as it was meant to be, not just as a place to leach off of for credits or items. A group of players with similar interests getting together to have fun. Good luck to ya.
- Gank By Ewoks
SuperTurbo
Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:35 pm
#11
Garvin,
In addtion to the +30 speed, push for the HAR and FT to have AP>1. Otherwise, having the speed won't do too much against the big targets we are suppose to handle.
GankByEwoks
Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:52 pm
#12
SuperTurbo wrote:
Garvin,
In addtion to the +30 speed, push for the HAR and FT to have AP>1. Otherwise, having the speed won't do too much against the big targets we are suppose to handle.
GARVIN..
I agree withSuper Turboon this, and I should of added it to the above list I mentioned. The Armor Piercing Value on all Heavy Weapons should be pushed to Medium - Heavy. I mean hello... there called Heavy for a reason..
That means..
1) The Flame Thrower, Light Lighting Cannon,and Heavy Acid Rifle should be at Medium ( AP 2 )
2) All Consumable Heavy Weapons such as the Heavy ParticleBeam, Rocket Launcher, Heavy Lighting Cannon, and the Heavy Acid Launchershould be Heavy ( AP 3 ).
I have no clue why some of our current "Heavy Weapons" have ZERO armor piercing values..
- Gank By Ewoks
garvin
Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:07 pm
#13
GankByEwoks wrote:
SuperTurbo wrote:
Garvin,
In addtion to the +30 speed, push for the HAR and FT to have AP>1. Otherwise, having the speed won't do too much against the big targets we are suppose to handle.
GARVIN..
I agree withSuper Turboon this, and I should of added it to the above list I mentioned. The Armor Piercing Value on all Heavy Weapons should be pushed to Medium - Heavy. I mean hello... there called Heavy for a reason..
That means..
1) The Flame Thrower, Light Lighting Cannon,and Heavy Acid Rifle should be at Medium ( AP 2 )
2) All Consumable Heavy Weapons such as the Heavy ParticleBeam, Rocket Launcher, Heavy Lighting Cannon, and the Heavy Acid Launchershould be Heavy ( AP 3 ).
I have no clue why some of our current "Heavy Weapons" have ZERO armor piercing values..
- Gank By Ewoks
I've been pushing for AP for awhile now...I'll give you the same answer I've repeatedly been given everytime I've asked for our weapons to get AP:
"Because they are already powerful enough...adding AP would just make them overly powerful"
We know that that response is very short sighted...the Devs are looking at the Initial damage and not Damage Per Second...The see our intial flame special as very powerful and adding AP would make it overly powerful comparatively...The place where this excuse crumbles is when we compare the damage that profession can do over the span of time...
So selling the Devs on AP is an uphill battle...My first plan of attack is to reduce the delay to increase our DPS...once that's done, I can then focus in on AP as well (altough I have repeatedly asked for that as well in my speed boost requests)...
We have a good chance at getting the speed boost...but honestly, getting AP pre the Combat Revamp is going to be very slim...I'll keep trying though...
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